Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

Very interesting feedback, thank you!

When I will receive my Extreme I will be in a a similar condition both in terms of network (4G Huawei router + audiophile switch) and DAC. I also have a Chord digital front end + SRC-DX (in my case connected to the M Scaler, as I listen to mostly streamed music).

So now I am curious about my Uptone EtherREGEN does about address segmentation , I will ask Alex Crespi and report back what I learn from him.

I'm sure it does, every switch should do that, it just appears some routers don't, in which case you'd definitely be better off with a switch.

See here for example on how this works:

How Switches Work | Learn with Global Knowledge

 

[wil]

I shared my TeamViewer credentials for the SRC-DX


I must share my experience on the OS update as it is far beyond any expectation I ever had and I beleive is probably different from what is shared so far. First wow was when I emailed Emile for the OS upgrade at midnight, we are country neighbor, I was hopping it will be upgraded in the morning but few minutes later I got the response from Emile that it was done. That is a WoW on the service quality than I never had and expected to have!

Similar to every Extreme owners, I spend the night on testing. I am one of those listening to offline PGGB'ed music on the Chord Dave/DC4AR6 via the SRC-DX using HQP(4.6)/NAA. I had installed Roon during the day to make it update the Library and as I have read in many feedback, the sound in the center became huge and fulfilling but there is a BUT, the sound was not as open as I was familiar and also the edges sounds limited and this was taking away the music engagement.

Next night I prepared different cables and I started all the combinations, and the best result was with my oldest cheapest 10mEthernet cable while the worst result was the M12 Gold Switch but all the fulfilling sound in the voice was not leading to the engagement I had before and the HQP/NAA even though it sounded comparing to Roon almost flat in the voice but the sound was open and the notes edge was limitless resulting in a better music engagement.

Without engagement I cannot listen to my music and my conclusion was that maybe the OS update is not for me at this stage and better to wait for Emile Switch and the final player and I had to write to Emile being the first to request undoing the OS upgrade hoping I can do a back and forth comparison.

Then the second WoW, as Emile propose to use a very basic switch in the configuration. My Internet configuration is simple, Huawei router with 4G (I as am living in literally the middle of nowhere) connected directly to the Extreme. I could not resist to wait until night listening session to try it and Boom, all the magic of the magician Emile popped up on the Roon. Everything that was before plus everything that was missing creates a magical SQ engagement moment. I am out of words to describe the experience.

The scientific explanation from Emile: "some routers don’t perform address segmentation (where the packets are only send to the connected devices which should receive them)"


If lucky enough I will be one of the first trying the SRC-DX driver.

A trillion thank you Emile for your amazing service and extra-ordinary SQ.

Anas

So, in layman's terms, your router + M12 + Update + Roon was not communicating effectively which resulted in sub par sound quality in terms of sound stage?

And this was solved by replacing the M12 with a basic office switch?

Was your prior set up with the M12 and TAS sounding fine?

 

[dminches]

Steve, do you own an Extreme?

Usually when one or two users have a connection issue vs. maybe a 100 users without an issue, which I think there are that many Extreme users controlling with Apple devices, it would seem that it has something to do with the specific wifi/network/device in the one or two users home environments. Not sure, but it would seem that way.

No. He is on team “Wadax and Taiko Audio are not even in the same universe.”

He is just a troll. I don’t know why he bothers to post here other than for that reason.

 

[Rhapsody]

No. He is on team “Wadax and Taiko Audio are not even in the same universe.”

He is just a troll. I don’t know he bothers to post here other than for that reason.

Thx. I asked if Steve had an Extreme, as this is the Extreme thread, so that I would be able to assist with his issue if possible. Steve's post seemed to infer that it was Extreme related, as he said it was the same issue as the other user with the issue, who has Roon connection issues running on an Extreme.

 

[dminches]

Thx. I asked if Steve had an Extreme, as this is the Extreme thread, so that I would be able to assist with his issue if possible. Steve's post seemed to infer that it was Extreme related, as he said it was the same issue as the other user with the issue, who has Roon connection issues running on an Extreme.

My last post about this.

He has no interest in actually contributing to this community of Extreme owners.

His post the other day was “You should not compare Taiko with Wadax. Wadax is clearly in a different class from Taiko and all the other music servers. It is also the reason for the high price of Wadax.”

 

[steve williams]

Getting back to the recent OS update......prior to which I have used only TAS for 2 years without opening Roon My plan was to use TAS until XDMS becomes available. But then Emile literally gobsmacked us all with the release of the new OS. For my ears the uptick when using Roon was far better than that which occurred with TAS. Many here still seem to prefer TAS over Roon after the OS update. Yesterday I tried doing an extensive comparison of both and after 4 hours I continue to find that in spite of improvements in both, for my ears Roon just sounded bettered that's where I have hitched my horse until XDMS is released as all bets will be off. I can't get the images of XDMS which Emile posted a while ago. They were dazzling to look at and we all know that Emile doesn't spend 2 years of time and enormous expense to bring to market something which is lesser than Roon. The goal was always to have a superior product. We all sit and wait in anxious anticipation but until such time my loyalty to TAS has shifted somewhat to Roon. Such problems

 

[Taiko Audio]

So, in layman's terms, your router + M12 + Update + Roon was not communicating effectively which resulted in sub par sound quality in terms of sound stage?

And this was solved by replacing the M12 with a basic office switch?

Was your prior set up with the M12 and TAS sounding fine?

If I understood correctly after the update a 10 meter direct cable to the router sounded better then the M12, but using this switch led to the desired result: DGS-1005D 5-Port Gigabit Unmanaged Desktop Switch | D-Link UK (dlink.com)

 

[Rhapsody]

I am LOVING using Roon plus the SQ that was provided with the update.

BUT, my curiosity got the better of me yesterday. So I tried TAS. I tried a few usb drivers. I definitely did not find that TAS sounded better. If anything I liked Roon a bit better, but not conclusive.

Having the Roon interface and the SQ that the update provided is all I need until XDMS. And yes, the music is emotionally involving.

 

[Bobvin]

Interesting video on coupled ‘vibrations’ or ‘oscillations’

Similar effects in audio?

It makes me think of my favorite physicist, Richard Feynman, whom I am certain would see that example and quickly run to a chalkboard and work out the mathematics to describe what he just saw. I recall (perhaps from his book “Surely You’re Joking Mr. Feynman”) an example he saw a dinner plate be set on a table in such a way it wobbled and rotated with increasing speed until it ultimately came to a stop. He immediately worked out the math. The sort of fellow who had to fully understand an observed phenomenon. Reading his book sparked a lot of my own curiosity.

 

[Kingrex]

@Kingrex, is it best to avoid CCA (copper clad aluminum) in favor of pure copper?

I can hear aluminum. I don't like the way it presents. It has a softening/smoothness effect.

Copper clad cable is used in large gauge wire. The NEC bulks it together with aluminum when determining ampacity.

Just avoid it for a feeder if its a new install. Spend the $ on solid copper. I have actually never heard CCA. I don't feel the need to test it.

 

[Kingrex]

I don't feel Spontaneous is the correct word for the synchronization video. It's more an example of phase and energy conservation. How could they not act in harmony. Why do you think we spend so much time with how we sit our components and cables. We all already know vibrations couple.

What is questionable is do you want to encourage syncro or not.

If you discourage it you loose energy. Look at the 2 inside metronome. They are driving the exterior units. They obviously have the most power. But they are loosing power to the others as they force them into sympathy.

If you encourage syncro, do you get more dramatic peaks and dips.

If you discourage syncro do you get smearing or clarity

It makes one wonder. Do you want all the chips in your computer to operate at the same frequency in harmony. Or would that cause errors. Do you want the same frequency but out of phase. Do you want different frequency. My guy says isolation of chips means you don't want any coupling/syncro. But wait, why is a single point ground plane so important. Isn't that attempting to bring power into syncro/harmony????

So many questions.

 

[Xymox]

Interesting video on coupled ‘vibrations’ or ‘oscillations’

Similar effects in audio?

Sorta reminds me of a classic 1950's Bell labs film on wave behavior.

 

[QuantumWave]

I don't feel Spontaneous is the correct word for the synchronization video. It's more an example of phase and energy conservation. How could they not act in harmony. Why do you think we spend so much time with how we sit our components and cables. We all already know vibrations couple.

What is questionable is do you want to encourage syncro or not.

If you discourage it you loose energy. Look at the 2 inside metronome. They are driving the exterior units. They obviously have the most power. But they are loosing power to the others as they force them into sympathy.

If you encourage syncro, do you get more dramatic peaks and dips.

If you discourage syncro do you get smearing or clarity

It makes one wonder. Do you want all the chips in your computer to operate at the same frequency in harmony. Or would that cause errors. Do you want the same frequency but out of phase. Do you want different frequency. My guy says isolation of chips means you don't want any coupling/syncro. But wait, why is a single point ground plane so important. Isn't that attempting to bring power into syncro/harmony????

So many questions.

Indeed! I’d say we want to avoid correlations, as correlations is information and that we don’t need/want

another video to illustrate why synchronisation of coupled resonances might be best avoided:

Another famous example are the military parades that break strides on bridges.

getting off track though, apologies!!!!

 

[Alex G]

Are there any Chord Dave + Audiowise SRC-DX owners available to test driver support?

yes (but going away for next 5 days so maybe that eliminates me!)

 

[Kris]

I only say what I get. I got this problem in recent times. I have got the same problem as @Koegz

You have dedicated router and wireless network for audio.
Here it looks like you need to click each of the wireless networks you have listed in your ipad and uncheck automatic connection (if this are your networks ) for all others except ofthe one that has roon.

I have 4 wireless networks home and if I forget to do that it connects to the other networks without notice.

 

[DoctorWhy]

Exactly why I haven't pulled the trigger yet and won't until it is 'finished/out of Beta' as I am technically unable to comprehend, much less do, the update maneuvers required by these owners. It will be a settled and even better component eventually and maintenance free for guys like myself.

Emile makes the upgrades and setup easy........he does it for you. PULL THE TRIGGER. I am sooo happy I bought one a year ago. And it's like a just got a new one today.

 

[cat6man]

Indeed! I’d say we want to avoid correlations, as correlations is information and that we don’t need/want

synchronization is an extreme form of correlation and even small amounts of correlation can have noticeable effects.

many years ago, we were testing 2 antenna receive diversity (i.e. if one antennas is fading, the other is not likely to be) and could not obtain the same results with a real antenna tower and a fading simulator in the lab. eventually, we found that in the fading simulator we should not assume completely independent fading between the two antennas (the real world is complicated, right?) and that by adding a 2-3% level of correlation between the two legs of the simulator, we got excellent correlation with the field test results. that small amount of correlation added enough bias to the system to trigger the mechanism we had been unable to see previously.

identifying mechanisms that occur on the order of 1% is a very difficult problem. test equipment will measure the average value which is almost always oblivious to the 1%-ile...........and that's if you KNOW what to measure, which is often not the case.

 

[Kris]

Just a quick test result I did today.
To all the good things I got over past few days the last thing I wanted to check is the long utp cable run , replacing a short audiophile.
Did that an to my surprise there are significant gains in calmness and midrange richness.
there are some losses in top upper range and air , so in practise everyone has to test and fine tune the cables to his system. But I know now why Emile and many others are enthusiastic about that.

I think the part of that is the capacitance of the cable. The longer the more capacitance.

I was hoping to be able to exclude my switches from the path but
there was no surprise that it is much better to still use the Baffalo switches v direct from router.
This was conrifmed before many times.

Question to Emile who proposed longer UTP ethernet cables.
What length should be optimal in your opinion ?
10, 15, 20, 50 meters?
is the cat 6e still as good as the 5e in your opinion or should we stick to 5e?

Will buy Few and test them but I dont know what length should be my favorites ?

 

[Taiko Audio]

getting off track though, apologies!!!!

Highly interesting content, no need to stop as far as I’m concerned!

 

[Cyrus]

Highly interesting content, no need to stop as far as I’m concerned!

Waiting my turn, for when we go quantum...which doesn't appear too far off.