Interesting that those comments come from a DAC manufacturer that does not build servers. There seems to be a bit of a divide between the "no difference between servers when ethernet is output from the server directly into the DAC" crowd and the "server quality is critical, no matter how it connects to the DAC" crowd.
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
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Interesting that those comments come from a DAC manufacturer that does not build servers. There seems to be a bit of a divide between the "no difference between servers when ethernet is output from the server directly into the DAC" crowd and the "server quality is critical, no matter how it connects to the DAC" crowd.
i see it differently.
dac makers are very sensitive to providing all sorts of connectivity choices, and modularity, due to interface chaos. and dac makers at higher price points see clearly they have to offer flexibility as part of the value equation.
i agree that when they offer a renderer/ethernet solution they might represent it as the end-all. but i doubt that is what they think. it's just what's working best to that point in time. and they know that and that the next best digital interface (or server) is just around the corner.
I also doubt that is what they truly think, even when representing otherwise, which is really the point I'm making when I say there is a "no difference between servers when ethernet is output from the server directly into the DAC" crowd. I found Mr. Pasche's comment interesting because as a DAC manufacturer he does not challenge the idea that the question presents, but instead fully acknowledges such. I haven't seen that often from a DAC manufacturer. Heck, even some server (but not DAC) manufacturers don't acknowledge such.
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Mike
Please let us know how do you like extreme after having it forsome time?
Also what is the 2x 30 tb thing ?
Is it NAS in your system or you use the internal extreme storage that was going to be the best option when it comes to SQ.
every day i am impressed by my digital, both streaming and files. the life, nuance and flow is just so natural. i'm in the middle of upgrading my vinyl with a new tt, arm and cartridge. yet the digital still stands out as impressive. much of that is the Extreme of course. and the USB optimization from the Extreme, and it's PCIe drives too.
remarkable.
my son set up mirroring Synology 30tb NAS units; one in my barn upstairs above my room, and the other in my house. my wife uses Sonos to access that NAS with Roon/Tidal. since Sonos is 16/44 or lower only she can only access those type files or Tidal. she is very happy with what she is hearing.
and....when your wife really enjoys a part of your system that is real gold there....just say'n.
in my room i was listening directly to my NAS upstairs in the barn until recently when i added the PCIe drives to the Extreme. now that NAS is just back-up as all my file listening is to the PCIe drives......a big step up in SQ. i have a lot invested in my files so i think the mirroring NAS units are still useful.
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Hi Mike,
I apologize in advance if this has been covered already.
Regarding the PCIe drives, what would you say the improvement is from? The PCIe drives themselves, or that the files are now local to the Extreme, or both?
Thanks very much
Paul
I apologize in advance if this has been covered already.
Regarding the PCIe drives, what would you say the improvement is from? The PCIe drives themselves, or that the files are now local to the Extreme, or both?
Thanks very much
Paul
hi Paul,
i don't really know the answer to your question with any confidence. but maybe i have a slight feel for the situation from reading what Emile has written and my experience, which is as follows.
from my time with the SGM 2015 server i know that Ed and Emile both thought that internal drives did very slightly sound better than a separate NAS. and i did have a few of those on my SGM and i think i agree. but it was not exactly a clear issue as it depended on exactly what sort of internal storage was used and how it was connected. so internal verses external was a question, with the slight nod to internal. also this might be affected by a fiber NAS connection, which i never used back then.
the PCIe drives inside the Extreme go to a whole new level of directly connected to the CPU and the degree of improvement over the NAS is exponential compared to the SGM 2015 internal drives.
what i don't know is whether a less robust approach (compared to the PCIe approach) with internal drives on the Extreme would be better than the delta with the SGM 2015. i don't recall reading about that question.
Emile is who you need to ask.
I do not have much to add to the above. We spend a lot of time improving network sourced streaming (NAS, Qobuz, Tidal), quite successfully, as we managed to surpass local SATA SSD file playback sound quality (we used SSD in the SGM2015/EVO). PCIe storage is a different story though and firmly ahead.
My ultimate challenge is to have superior sound quality from network based sources, even over local PCIe storage.
There are just so many variables that will affect the final sonic outcome.
I have just added an Enterprise Ubiquiti router with a single SFP port to replace a consumer wifi router (with everything disables even leds) and find the Ubiquiti promising.
It will, like all network testing take much time to try different configurations, isolation, vibration management cabling (including different fibre cable and SPF brands, together with power supply would already possibly take quite some time to evaluate.
There are just to many brands and models to ever say which is best so even if it works out well for me, i would still be unable to recommend or say which will be best, except eventually general perceptions compared to previous router.
Each brand and model will have a different sound, whether it suits ones system really needs to be tested within ones networking ecosystem.
Just like PCIe storage, it becomes incredibly costly to test brands and even capacities with the same brand and range to find which is the best.
Generally the Enterprise models and more costly ones will be of a higher quality and easier to manage are recommend internal storage over a NAS setup which has another whole lot of variables to manage.
Impossible, imo.
I have just added an Enterprise Ubiquiti router with a single SFP port to replace a consumer wifi router (with everything disables even leds) and find the Ubiquiti promising.
It will, like all network testing take much time to try different configurations, isolation, vibration management cabling (including different fibre cable and SPF brands, together with power supply would already possibly take quite some time to evaluate.
There are just to many brands and models to ever say which is best so even if it works out well for me, i would still be unable to recommend or say which will be best, except eventually general perceptions compared to previous router.
Each brand and model will have a different sound, whether it suits ones system really needs to be tested within ones networking ecosystem.
Just like PCIe storage, it becomes incredibly costly to test brands and even capacities with the same brand and range to find which is the best.
Generally the Enterprise models and more costly ones will be of a higher quality and easier to manage are recommend internal storage over a NAS setup which has another whole lot of variables to manage.
Impossible, imo.
Agree.
That is quite a problem, and obviously not restricted to networking, every single component in your entire system has an influence, for better or worse.
Taiko Audio is very busy because of SGM Extreme orders.
Emile wants to request SGM Extreme reviews and attend HI FI shows
but, he has no time.
That's why I post SGM Extreme movies.
Announcement:
The 1st of September 2019 marks the end of the introductory pricing period on the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme server. The MSRP from that date on will be set at Euro 24.000 excluding local sales taxes / duties where applicable. Any orders placed before then will be at the current price.
Thus far the Extreme has been an overwhelming success. Its sales volume has admittedly caught us off guard and our operation has been expanding rapidly because of it. Alas we cannot maintain a break-even sales policy any longer.
Thank you for your support.
The 1st of September 2019 marks the end of the introductory pricing period on the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme server. The MSRP from that date on will be set at Euro 24.000 excluding local sales taxes / duties where applicable. Any orders placed before then will be at the current price.
Thus far the Extreme has been an overwhelming success. Its sales volume has admittedly caught us off guard and our operation has been expanding rapidly because of it. Alas we cannot maintain a break-even sales policy any longer.
Thank you for your support.
There is a show running daily in New York City with the Extreme playing proudly.
