Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Christiaan Punter]

I'd been traveling lately and hadn't had a chance to have an extended listen until this week. My XDMS version is still from 11/18/22 and while there have been a number of control app updates, they are not supposed to provide sonic upgrades.

So I don't know whether my recent system hardware upgrades (replacing a damaged Taiko USB card, grounding equipment, and/or system setup) are starting to settle in, or there's hidden sonic gems in the control app updates, but damn...the level of transparency and emotional engagement took another significant leap forward since two weeks ago. I can now play at concert level volumes without any stress or fatigue - just more sonic texture. The artists' intent even more clear.

I am just so impressed with the continual improvements in the playback quality and the resulting level of enjoyment.

SO QUESTION: The Taiko team has made a number of hardware and (it seems now even more) software design choices that have resulted in significant improvements in playback quality. Curious about how the choices between options are decided? Are they made strictly from subjective (individual or group) listening sessions? With the same or various systems/rooms? Or are some objective measurements also included in the decision?

Great to hear the improvements. One additional question that I think (apologies if not) can be inferred from above post… has Taiko tested and heard incremental SQ benefits through each or some of the incremental control app upgrades since mid-November? Or are the SQ improvements primarily/solely come from the ‘back-end’ updates? (i too remain on 11/18 back end).

Fwiw xdms control app imho opinion is working so cleanly and effectively, I am encouraging my Taiko - xdms beta waiting - friends to jump on board. try it for the fantastic user interface but really for the phenomenal SQ.

Interesting question, keen to hear the answer too.

But my bet is that early on they found some factors that really affect sq- eg more processing, parallel processing, longer processing, reading from ram vs reading from hard disk, etc.

They then went about optimising for these factors with proper measurement of each release, with listening tests at longer milestones to confirm their ongoing hypotheses.

I don’t think it makes sense to listen again and again and again- development would take forever!

Actually, I have been listening to every release since the start. This is how we detected a degradation twice and could remedy the situation. But indeed, the culprit is normally in the backend, not the control software, although new functionalities in the latter can dictate changes in the former, that in turn could affect the sound quality.

From half of December 2022, I was on a short break and had to tend to various chores and projects, and have not been listening to XDMS during that time. Unfortunately, one of my speakers was recently bumped over and it requires a new woofer which has been ordered but will need running in. As a spin-off from that accident, some other system changes ensued which now make it pretty much impossible for me to compare before and after situations with regard to XDMS.

Nevertheless, starting Build 28, I will again make my sonic assessments via cross-comparisons with my other sources, and I will keep doing so.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

I agree Taiko is doing an excellent job, and I sympathize with all of the complexities. I was just thinking how much simpler life would be for the developer, and music collector, without tag data. Even Roon, with all their years of development, still has messy and inconsistent aspects. Oh well, that was on my mind the last few times I was in Discord seeing all the cases. XDMS is practically a finished product for my usage.

Ah yes, how simple life would be without metadata! Just the files and their directories... That would certainly make things easier for us. But I wouldn't say metadata is the main culprit, there are plenty more aspects that require a lot of effort. But we're squashing the bugs one after the other and we will definitely get there!

 

[seatrope]

Recap:

In case you have 2 storage cards installed, this is the optimal configuration:

slot1: storage card (slot nearest to the CPUs)
slot2: fiber card
slot3: optane OS drive
slot4: empty
slot5: USB card
slot6: empty
slot7: storage card (slot nearest to the panzerholz embedded transformer)

In case you have 1 storage card, install in slot 7 or slot 1, doesn’t matter

In case you have 3 storage cards, contact us to discuss options.

@Taiko Audio Emile - is this still the recommended configuration if I were to add a second storage card, in light of the impending network card release?

I want to install and test the new Asus Hyper card with 2 x 8TB Sabrent Q to get a baseline before the network card and switch arrive, lest the improvements with the switch and network card obscure any unexpected degradation due to the second storage card.

To confirm from your 2021 post - ideal storage card locations are still slot1 and slot7, and the new network card in slot2? USB stays in slot5?

slot1: storage card (slot nearest to the CPUs)
slot2: fiber card <--------- replace with new network card 2023 (?)
slot3: optane OS drive
slot4: empty
slot5: USB card
slot6: empty
slot7: storage card (slot nearest to the panzerholz embedded transformer)

Thank you!!

 

[Steve williams]

I have to admit that Wednesday's build brought me as close to XDMS as I have been wanting. The addition of 24/192 to Qobuz was a big plus for me. I have to admit that for just me and my eyes and ears, the platform is giving me virtually everything I want. The metadata issues are slowly working themselves out but this is not a big deal for me . It all comes down to the sound and frankly I just haven't heard digital sound so good in my system

 

[Steve williams]

For those using XDMS and are classical music lovers, I would encourage you to have a listen to Idagio. The music found there is excellent

 

[2ndLiner]

I have to admit that Wednesday's build brought me as close to XDMS as I have been wanting. The addition of 24/192 to Qobuz was a big plus for me. I have to admit that for just me and my eyes and ears, the platform is giving me virtually everything I want. The metadata issues are slowly working themselves out but this is not a big deal for me . It all comes down to the sound and frankly I just haven't heard digital sound so good in my system

Having been present at your home for the west coast Horizon debut and being so impressed by the sound of music coming out of your system, I am vicariously thrilled at the thought of what you must be hearing now, given your speaker positioning adjustment and all the Taiko SQ improvements since!

 

[Steve williams]

Having been present at your home for the west coast Horizon debut and being so impressed by the sound of music coming out of your system, I am vicariously thrilled at the thought of what you must be hearing now, given your speaker positioning adjustment and all the Taiko SQ improvements since!

you should come back for another listen

 

[2ndLiner]

you should come back for another listen

I’d love to, thanks!

 

[Steve williams]

PM me and lets work something out

 

[austinpop]

As I'm one of the alpha power users helping to identify and test XDMS's handling of tag metadata, I want to clarify a few points. Our intent is not to divert precious resources away from other functionality, or in any way delay the progression of XDMS to beta release. The fact of the matter is that any music player has to deal with a user's library the way it is, not how it should be. For many users, navigation by album/artist/genre etc is a non-negotiable (I'm not one of them, but they exist), so any competent player has to get this right.

My motivation is to help the Taiko team make XDMS deal with all kinds of tag metadata that exist out there in the wild. I personally am happy with folder navigation, as long as basic functionality is correct, such as sorting in disc and track order, and the display of artwork when present. As of yesterday's drop, this seems to have been mostly achieved.

I know many here like to hate on Roon, or make dramatic declarations about banishing or uninstalling it on their Extremes. But for me, Roon's greatest strength is that it does not rely on the tag metadata in music files, but rather, uses that metadata along with other information to identify the music in its own database. This is a profound difference and I still miss the elegance of Roon's UI.

We have to be realistic about our UI expectations of XDMS. No music library is perfectly tagged, and so any player that relies on tags will necessarily be limited by that. My goal is to help the Taiko team make XDMS be the best it can be within these constraints, and allowing the focus to be on XDMS's greatest strengths, which is the SQ.

 

[seatrope]

As I'm one of the alpha power users helping to identify and test XDMS's handling of metadata, I want to clarify a few points. Our intent is not to divert precious resources away from other functionality, or in any way delay the progression of XDMS to beta release. The fact of the matter is that any music player has to deal with a user's library the way it is, not how it should be. For many users, navigation by album/artist/genre etc is a non-negotiable (I'm not one of them, but they exist), so any competent player has to get this right.

My motivation is to help the Taiko team make XDMS deal with all kinds of tag metadata that exist out there in the wild. I personally am happy with folder navigation, as long as basic functionality is correct, such as sorting in disc and track order, and the display of artwork when present. As of yesterday's drop, this seems to have been mostly achieved.

I know many here like to hate on Roon, or make dramatic declarations about banishing or uninstalling it on their Extremes. But for me, Roon's greatest strength is that it does not rely on the tag metadata in music files, but rather, uses that metadata along with other information to identify the music in its own database. This is a profound difference, and for me, I still miss the elegance of Roon's UI.

We have to be realistic about our UI expectations of XDMS. No music library is perfectly tagged, and so any player that relies on tags will necessarily be limited by that. My goal is to help the Taiko team make XDMS be the best it can be within these constraints, and allowing the focus to be on XDMS's greatest strengths, which is the SQ.

Agree with everything you said above, Rajiv.

As a metadata "expert", do you have any recommendations as to what we should use to fix our library in advance of XDMS? I have been using Songkong with varying results a couple of years ago, but there are so many options for Songkong that I have not explored them in detail. There's been a ton of new versions since too.

Thanks!!

 

[dminches]

Agree with everything you said above, Rajiv.

As a metadata "expert", do you have any recommendations as to what we should use to fix our library in advance of XDMS? I have been using Songkong with varying results a couple of years ago, but there are so many options for Songkong that I have not explored them in detail. There's been a ton of new versions since too.

Thanks!!

I have spent a lot of time (years) getting my metadata correct. There are no shortcuts. Whenever I look at my library in album or artist view I note anything that doesn’t look right and fix it. I use Tag&Rename which I have found to be the best for wholesale changes

My other rule is that I never put anything on my server which isn’t properly tagged. At least I know the new stuff will be right.

 

[austinpop]

Agree with everything you said above, Rajiv.

As a metadata "expert", do you have any recommendations as to what we should use to fix our library in advance of XDMS? I have been using Songkong with varying results a couple of years ago, but there are so many options for Songkong that I have not explored them in detail. There's been a ton of new versions since too.

Thanks!!

I'll defer to master tag groomers like @dminches ! My library is hardly perfect. For the last decade or so, I have made it a practice to fix up any new music that goes into the library using MP3tag on Windows. But even with that, I have a lot of inconsistencies. And, I suspect like most people, I don't have the patience to go retag my whole library.

This is why I just prefer to navigate by folder. This is also useful because I often have multiple releases/masterings of the same album, so I find folder navigation to be the easiest way.

 

[oldmustang]

As I'm one of the alpha power users helping to identify and test XDMS's handling of metadata, I want to clarify a few points. Our intent is not to divert precious resources away from other functionality, or in any way delay the progression of XDMS to beta release. The fact of the matter is that any music player has to deal with a user's library the way it is, not how it should be. For many users, navigation by album/artist/genre etc is a non-negotiable (I'm not one of them, but they exist), so any competent player has to get this right.

My motivation is to help the Taiko team make XDMS deal with all kinds of tag metadata that exist out there in the wild. I personally am happy with folder navigation, as long as basic functionality is correct, such as sorting in disc and track order, and the display of artwork when present. As of yesterday's drop, this seems to have been mostly achieved.

I know many here like to hate on Roon, or make dramatic declarations about banishing or uninstalling it on their Extremes. But for me, Roon's greatest strength is that it does not rely on the tag metadata in music files, but rather, uses that metadata along with other information to identify the music in its own database. This is a profound difference, and for me, I still miss the elegance of Roon's UI.

We have to be realistic about our UI expectations of XDMS. No music library is perfectly tagged, and so any player that relies on tags will necessarily be limited by that. My goal is to help the Taiko team make XDMS be the best it can be within these constraints, and allowing the focus to be on XDMS's greatest strengths, which is the SQ.

I'm one of the alpha testers, but far, far from being a power user. I agree completely with Rajiv's statements -- correct handling of metadata is critical for any music player. Along with correct display of artist, album, genre, etc any sort of competent/accurate search function is going to depend in large measure on finding and correctly dealing with metadata. I am one of those users "who exist" who haven't used folder view to select music to play -- I much prefer album artist, artist (there is a difference!), album or even "last added" and "random selection" to play music in my library or from streaming services.

Roon does this pretty well, though in fairness they've had five or six years to get it more or less right (they still have problems) and many more resources to apply to the problem. Again, Rajiv very correctly points out that XDMS or any but the most basic player has to deal with metadata as it finds it.

To this point, it is indeed very important that users groom their metadata and make it as complete and accurate as possible. I'm guilty of paying a lot less attention to this in the early years of accumulating digital rips and downloads, and I've been playing catch-up ever since. David's method of never putting anything on his server that hasn't been tagged to his liking is a good one. I've adopted this several years ago, and as I find a problem with older music I try to go back and correct problems, errors or omissions on the spot.

At some point it would be good if the Taiko team along with the alpha testers come up with a list of "mandatory" metadata tags that need to be present so XDMS can perform its core tasks correctly (display, sort, search) along with known issues (one such is file names > 256 characters, as an example).

The optimum XDMS experience is going to depend in large part not only on the player software but also on the user giving it a well-tagged library to work with.

The sound quality though is definitely here however, even without all the bells and whistles (yet).

Steve Z

 

[Steve williams]

I'll defer to master tag groomers like @dminches ! My library is hardly perfect. For the last decade or so, I have made it a practice to fix up any new music that goes into the library using MP3tag on Windows. But even with that, I have a lot of inconsistencies. And, I suspect like most people, I don't have the patience to go retag my whole library.

This is why I just prefer to navigate by folder. This is also useful because I often have multiple releases/masterings of the same album, so I find folder navigation to be the easiest way.

I’m the same. I navigate by folder and find it so much easier

 

[John T]

Forgive my overwhelming amount of computer limitations. Maybe dyslexia is a good thing? I assume its not possible to institute a version of something like focus that Roon uses within XDMS? Its a valuable tool in narrowing large library's. I assume this is most likely not possible??

 

[oldmustang]

Forgive my overwhelming amount of computer limitations. Maybe dyslexia is a good thing? I assume its not possible to institute a version of something like focus that Roon uses within XDMS? Its a valuable tool in narrowing large library's. I assume this is most likely not possible??

It is possible John, however it would come with a lot of overhead, both additional code and the time/money demands of additional coding and ensuring there are no negative sound quality impacts.

Steve Z

 

[cat6man]

My other rule is that I never put anything on my server which isn’t properly tagged. At least I know the new stuff will be right.

Noble, but a level of organization I will never achieve

 

[John T]

It is possible John, however it would come with a lot of overhead, both additional code and the time/money demands of additional coding and ensuring there are no negative sound quality impacts.

Steve Z

I understand Steve. I could easily do without such a feature. Streamlined efficiency , great SQ, smooth operating features hits all the right buttons for me.

 

[cmarin]

Actually, I have been listening to every release since the start. This is how we detected a degradation twice and could remedy the situation. But indeed, the culprit is normally in the backend, not the control software, although new functionalities in the latter can dictate changes in the former, that in turn could affect the sound quality.

From half of December 2022, I was on a short break and had to tend to various chores and projects, and have not been listening to XDMS during that time. Unfortunately, one of my speakers was recently bumped over and it requires a new woofer which has been ordered but will need running in. As a spin-off from that accident, some other system changes ensued which now make it pretty much impossible for me to compare before and after situations with regard to XDMS.

Nevertheless, starting Build 28, I will again make my sonic assessments via cross-comparisons with my other sources, and I will keep doing so.

Thank you Christian for your response. So very interesting... all testing is done by listening. We should take out insurance on your ears!