Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Rhapsody]

I just got off Facetime with Bob as this was easier to discuss by conversation (remember those?) than by email or thread posts. I'm much clearer on the intracacies but honestly, still a bit confounded. All I can say, is that it is times like this that having a dealer resource like Bob is worth its weight in gold - he's better than any corporate IT person I ever worked with! (Those folks are all the same: "Uh, I 'm sorry but you can't do that on a Mac"...)

That’s because IT people know what you’re talking about and I don’t know what I’m talking about. Ha ha.

 

[wil]

Would the Taiko router broadcast its own wifi ssid?
If so, easy peasy..

And I assume the router WiFi signal can be turned off if not needed?

 

[steve williams]

Yes, but if you have a supported DAC that will be able to use the new interface (now the DAC), like your Lampi will, watch and see if you don't go that route when available.

There I am with you in fact Lukasz from what Emile said is interested in incorporating the new interface. In his DACs along with MSB and TotalDAC

 

[RUIN*ish]

Need a Taiko XDMS tablet...
Connects via Bluetooth to router and BPS.

 

[Rhapsody]

Would the Taiko router broadcast its own wifi ssid?
If so, easy

There I am with you in fact Lukasz from what Emile said is interested in incorporating the new interface. In his DACs along with MSB and TotalDAC

I bet that will be the "icing on the cake"!

 

[simorag]

Up and running with the Taiko switch and NIC, yay!

I am powering the switch with an Uptone LPS1.2 via a nice Ghent DC cable, and I have taken the chance of moving to the same LPS / cable combo with my Wi-Fi router as well.

I had to disconnect the power cable of the Extreme, so I am now in a mix of caps restore / switch burn-in stage.

Nevertheless, the increase of bass definition and overall tactility of instruments, and an almost unsettling combination of improved openness and midrange weight is already pretty obvious.

I am already quite happy, yet plainly grinning in anticipation of further goodness to come.

In the meanwhile ...

 

[steve williams]

I bet that will be the "icing on the cake"!

I’m sure you’re right Bob. Does everyone remember when we got the Taiko USB board and on a scale of 1-10 it was over the top. Well we have to return that card to Taiko to get the new yet to be named card. It’s tough to wrap my head around how anything can be better than that but Emile has been dead on with everything else. With 17 Projects in the pipeline it’s tough to be bold and say end game until we know what’s behind all them doors

 

[Rhapsody]

I've been back and forth today with the "router". At first I thought that the new router did NOT broadcast wifi. Then someone commented that maybe the new router DID broadcast wifi. I then thought, GREAT! That makes life easy.

According to the diagram that Emile posted I now do not think that the router broadcasts wifi. You connect to the AP from the router and that is where you get the wifi.

Then like in my situation depending on the wifi strength wifi repeaters can be used in other adjoining rooms.

I still think the router is more complicated than all of the other goodies, we shall see.

 

[Nils]

I have some questions regarding the coming TACD PCIe Output Board and the MSB integration...

Extract from Taiko's Site
The Taiko-designed TACD PCIe Output Board will feature a modular build to support a range of outputs using either a D/A or D/D daughterboard, providing a single output type per module.

The Modular Daughter Board will mount on top of the main TACDA PCIe board and can then provide one specific function from an array of options such as:
- Custom output like MSB Pro ISL

Extract from MSB's Site
The ProISL Interface is the highest performance digital audio interface. The interface is glass fiber optic based, making it 100% electrically isolated and allowing for incredible cable lengths with no loss. The unique protocol allows a very low jitter copy of the DAC master clock to be fed back to the source, creating a low jitter clock synchronous with the audio data system. The audio data is encoded and sent to the DAC, where it’s checked for errors and corrected before playback. The ProISL is capable of multi-channel audio and extremely high sample rates (much higher than any current standard). By using fiber, any noise generated in the source (CPU, drive, video processing, etc…) can be prevented from entering the DAC and the rest of the audio system.

Questions and Clarification
Am I correct to understand that Taiko will create a modular daughter board that implements MSB's ProISL interface meaning that the modular daughter board will have an SFP transceiver and the connection between Taiko Extreme.TACD PCIe and the MSB DAC will simply be a fibre optic cable?

1. All the work lies with Taiko (implementing TACD PCIe Output Board and Modular Daughter Board for MSB Pro ISL)?
2. There are no changes required on MSB's side regarding HW or SW?
3. MSB need to share implementation details of ProISL (MSB's IP) with Taiko to enable the integration but in doing so will be able to offer their customers a very high quality system integration between Taiko Extreme and MSB DAC?

Can @Taiko Audio comment on the above please?

 

[RUIN*ish]

I've been back and forth today with the "router". At first I thought that the new router did NOT broadcast wifi. Then someone commented that maybe the new router DID broadcast wifi. I then thought, GREAT! That makes life easy.

According to the diagram that Emile posted I now do not think that the router broadcasts wifi. You connect to the AP from the router and that is where you get the wifi.

Then like in my situation depending on the wifi strength wifi repeaters can be used in other adjoining rooms.

I still think the router is more complicated than all of the other goodies, we shall see.

If the ap is a separate device - I would bet it's to get the wifi out of the router for sq reasons. The ap, if it were to eliminate wifi would need some other protocal or be wired to communicate back to the router.
The potential for an ap which is wifi to be used with a plethora of different tablets, computers, and I dare say, cell phones, would still need an ssid for those devices to complete a handshake..
So, unless there's Taiko pixie dust, which would turn some internal wifi on and off as it gets communication from the ap -
Piece of cake...
Mn

 

[Rhapsody]

If the ap is a separate device - I would bet it's to get the wifi out of the router for sq reasons. The ap, if it were to eliminate wifi would need some other protocal or be wired to communicate back to the router.
The potential for an ap which is wifi to be used with a plethora of different tablets, computers, and I dare say, cell phones, would still need an ssid for those devices to complete a handshake..
So, unless there's Taiko pixie dust, which would turn some internal wifi on and off as it gets communication from the ap -
Piece of cake...
Mn

I think the Router just does not do wifi for all of your stated SQ reasons. All good, no big deal connecting the AP to the router and as you say - Piece of Cake

 

[kswanson27]

The Extreme Switch has two SFP sockets only.
Some audiophiles may want to place their other network components such as NAS ...etc close to the Extreme syst

I think the Router just does not do wifi for all of your stated SQ reasons. All good, no big deal connecting the AP to the router and as you say - Piece of Cake

My cable modem has one LAN port and two telephone ports which are all in use. Is it possible to run from the modem to a basic unmanaged switch then from that switch to the Taiko router and my household router without any loss of SQ?

 

[CKKeung]

Taiko Audio Extreme Switch And Extreme Network Card Review

Mono & Stereo High-End Audio Magazine: Magico - Nagra - Tidal Audio - Wilson Audio - MSB - Totaldac - Living Voice - Taiko Audio - Aries Cerat -Thrax

www.monoandstereo.com

 

[cat6man]

@Taiko Audio

regarding the router: i'm also interested in plug-n-play and have a few questions. i will be using this as indicated in your diagram and not replacing my home isp router (i am upgrading my home network to support 10G between key internal devices).

in the plug-n-play configuration
1. will the taiko router and the home router be on the same subnet? i assume they will(?) to allow music to be easily put on the extreme--or is more complex networking providing the link between different subnets?
2. which router will do dhcp, one or both?

i'm basically trying to determine if this will have any impact on my upgraded home network architecture or hardware choices (planning on ubiquity dream SE pro to get 10G connectivity, 10G port will go to 8 port 10G switch for further distribution to high speed devices, 1G port will go to 24 port 1G switch for everything else including music system).

 

[kennyb123]

The first set of rules : complete isolation

The second set of rules : allows access to the HiFi network from the Home network.

Goal :

- Backup the music files and the Roon library from the Extreme to a NAS located in the home network

- Access the Extreme's Roon server from a machine on the home network. I like to manage the Roon settings and my library from a desktop machine.

I like this idea.

 

[ctydwn]

Quick (re)insert into thread... discussed once every hundred pages or so.

Back from 2.5 week hiatus. Left system fully running. Sounded good upon reentry.... thin perhaps? Everything same as I left including same XDMS app version and backend... then as many of us have noticed/recommended, rebooted the Extreme with the front button. within an half hour, cloudy cobwebs dispensed - sonics surrounding me, dynamics, detail, bass, etc. like using a soft cloth on eyeglasses or a careful windshield wipe after driving a few hundred mi/kms -

Just a reminder for some folks that may have not tried previously, ymmv. No harm in taking out some windex to test. Will be interesting as switch, router and bps are introduced whether there will not be any benefit to once in awhile to restarting the Extreme. Frankly, no big deal either way.

Back to bliss and imagining how the switch on order will improve this...
Great review at M&Stereo. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Kris]

The router itself will be around 6K. A currently significant unknown part of that is support cost, which is greatly impacted by how "plug&play" it is. I have some positive news in that area as the way it does currently perform best here can actually be supplied as a "plug&play" package, which we're working on right now. Let me elaborate on that:

The most support intensive option would be to use our upcoming Router to replace your current Router serving your entire network where you create separate networks for your audio system and your other home network devices. This was the original goal, and still is an option, however it is not the best performing option from a sound quality POV.

We get the best result by far by using the Router to create an exclusive audio network consisting of 5 devices:

1) Router
2) Wi-fi Access Point (AP)
3) Switch
4) Server
5) Remote control device (Ipad or Android tablet)

A schematic overview:

View attachment 107983

This is less complex then it looks, a quick and "dirty" test setup:

View attachment 107984

The best description I can come up with what this setup "adds" is stability. It creates a silent / black background in which images are projected with absolute stability, floating in air. There's also a significant increase in detailing, texture retrieval and soundstage, which is larger, airier and more enveloping at the same time, but the stability of it all is what stands out most for me, and this is somewhat of an eye opener as adding more devices to the Router degrade this stability, creating a somewhat diffusing effect and diminishing image positional precision. The amount of "traffic" created on your home network does not affect this stability, we tested high data rate downloads, 4K video streaming etc, this is virtually undetectable where it does noticeably impacts things without the Router in place. Another interesting discovery is remote control device to server connection speed/latency has an effect, faster is better here, a faster Ipad, or a less cluttered Ipad with less apps which create background activity installed sounds better. And this goes for both local file and streaming playback.

We're currently testing multiple Wi-Fi Access Points (yes @Kris the TP link 660HD is amongst them), and Wi-Fi provided by the Router by means of PCIe M2 (internal) and USB Wi-Fi adapters (external).

More to follow soon!

I hope the current AP are just temporary solution.
There is simply to many things to carry.
Also keep in mind there is new FASTER ( 5400 insted of 3600) version of my favourite AP
Tp Link EAP670 ( older was 660). Please test it if possible.

At the end There is a big need for Taiko Access Piont so please consider that .
No other Audio company has dedicated access point,

 

[matthias]

Tp Link EAP670

There is the EAP690E HD, EAP770, EAP780 upcoming

Matt

 

[Kris]

I hope the current AP are just temporary solution.
There is simply to many things to carry.
Also keep in mind there is new FASTER ( 5400 insted of 3600) version of my favourite AP
Tp Link EAP670 ( older was 660). Please test it if possible.

At the end There is a big need for Taiko Access Piont so please consider that .
No other Audio company has dedicated access point,

Actually 670 is 50% SLOWER @ 2.4 Ghz, but 2x faster @ 5 Ghz.
I strongly preffered the 2.4 Ghz at all times , but I remember Emile likes 5Ghz.
Ultimate SQ was reached in my system with direct LAN cable to ipad with NO Wifi at all.
But I am sure Emile will find a way to do it much better than all of us here.

 

[Malcng]

My suggestion is:

1. Taiko to provide a pre-configured plug&play solution as outlined in this diagram:
View attachment 107998

2. Provide support for this scenario only, and only for the part called "Audio Network" on the diagram above. Have a way to easily rollback to factory default settings (i.e. the config above).

3. Contract with an external consulting/support company that can provide paid support for any other configuration/variation.

4. Stop being so nice and enforce #2 & #3. Otherwise, as a small company, it can easily drown in home network support. And that won't be good for any of us.

This seems to reaffirm my original thinking along the lines of purchasing a NUC or similar to act as Roon core for the whole of house and running that connected on the left of the red line and running the Extreme in XDMS mode on the right hand side. Almost a cake and eating it scenario?