Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[nonesup]

Emile, in a configuration: Modem-Router (ISP) - Taiko Router- Taiko Switch, if the Modem-Router (ISP) already has Wifi access, is it still necessary to add a Wifi access point connected to the Taiko Router?

 

[wil]

The router itself will be around 6K. A currently significant unknown part of that is support cost, which is greatly impacted by how "plug&play" it is. I have some positive news in that area as the way it does currently perform best here can actually be supplied as a "plug&play" package, which we're working on right now. Let me elaborate on that:

The most support intensive option would be to use our upcoming Router to replace your current Router serving your entire network where you create separate networks for your audio system and your other home network devices. This was the original goal, and still is an option, however it is not the best performing option from a sound quality POV.

We get the best result by far by using the Router to create an exclusive audio network consisting of 5 devices:

1) Router
2) Wi-fi Access Point (AP)
3) Switch
4) Server
5) Remote control device (Ipad or Android tablet)

A schematic overview:

View attachment 107983

This is less complex then it looks, a quick and "dirty" test setup:

View attachment 107984

The best description I can come up with what this setup "adds" is stability. It creates a silent / black background in which images are projected with absolute stability, floating in air. There's also a significant increase in detailing, texture retrieval and soundstage, which is larger, airier and more enveloping at the same time, but the stability of it all is what stands out most for me, and this is somewhat of an eye opener as adding more devices to the Router degrade this stability, creating a somewhat diffusing effect and diminishing image positional precision. The amount of "traffic" created on your home network does not affect this stability, we tested high data rate downloads, 4K video streaming etc, this is virtually undetectable where it does noticeably impacts things without the Router in place. Another interesting discovery is remote control device to server connection speed/latency has an effect, faster is better here, a faster Ipad, or a less cluttered Ipad with less apps which create background activity installed sounds better. And this goes for both local file and streaming playback.

We're currently testing multiple Wi-Fi Access Points (yes @Kris the TP link 660HD is amongst them), and Wi-Fi provided by the Router by means of PCIe M2 (internal) and USB Wi-Fi adapters (external).

More to follow soon!

As far as the remote iPad goes, have you compared direct cable Lan vs WiFi to iPad?

I don’t use WiFi for anything, so with the Taiko Router/Switch combo feeding the Server, I would use a 2nd switch (Cisco) off the Taiko Router to connect to the iPad remote. (assuming this configuration will still allow the iPad to function as a Remote?).

 

[VPN]

The router itself will be around 6K. A currently significant unknown part of that is support cost, which is greatly impacted by how "plug&play" it is. I have some positive news in that area as the way it does currently perform best here can actually be supplied as a "plug&play" package, which we're working on right now. Let me elaborate on that:

The most support intensive option would be to use our upcoming Router to replace your current Router serving your entire network where you create separate networks for your audio system and your other home network devices. This was the original goal, and still is an option, however it is not the best performing option from a sound quality POV.

We get the best result by far by using the Router to create an exclusive audio network consisting of 5 devices:

1) Router
2) Wi-fi Access Point (AP)
3) Switch
4) Server
5) Remote control device (Ipad or Android tablet)

A schematic overview:

View attachment 107983

This is less complex then it looks, a quick and "dirty" test setup:

View attachment 107984

The best description I can come up with what this setup "adds" is stability. It creates a silent / black background in which images are projected with absolute stability, floating in air. There's also a significant increase in detailing, texture retrieval and soundstage, which is larger, airier and more enveloping at the same time, but the stability of it all is what stands out most for me, and this is somewhat of an eye opener as adding more devices to the Router degrade this stability, creating a somewhat diffusing effect and diminishing image positional precision. The amount of "traffic" created on your home network does not affect this stability, we tested high data rate downloads, 4K video streaming etc, this is virtually undetectable where it does noticeably impacts things without the Router in place. Another interesting discovery is remote control device to server connection speed/latency has an effect, faster is better here, a faster Ipad, or a less cluttered Ipad with less apps which create background activity installed sounds better. And this goes for both local file and streaming playback.

We're currently testing multiple Wi-Fi Access Points (yes @Kris the TP link 660HD is amongst them), and Wi-Fi provided by the Router by means of PCIe M2 (internal) and USB Wi-Fi adapters (external).

More to follow soon!

Dear Emile,

I have two separate internet services in my home, one is fiber, going to the Audio Network, and one is copper, going the home network, so they are completely isolated. In this case, which option should be better:
a) Program (if possible) the Taiko router in order to use it directly with the fiber input
b) Keep the current fiber modem and router, and place the Taiko router in series

Thanks.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Very interesting! I was not planning to replace my existing Modem/Router and was intending to install the Taiko Router between my existing Eero 6E satellite/base station in the Media Room and the Taiko Switch. Sounds like this will be best for SQ as well, which is great.

Now, my Apple TV “X” [heavily modified ATV] is connected to the same Eero (via Ethernet). I mentioned earlier that with the new Network card and Switch, the sound quality of the ATVX improved significantly (similar to how Emile described it above for the Extreme).
I suppose everything connected to the Taiko Router should get a reduction in background noise, correct?

Like this?
(note no wired connection between the Taiko Router and the main Modem/Router.)

That would cancel out most if not all of the benefits.

The Eero should go between the yellow “no direct connection” position and the audio router, not replacing the audio access point.

 

[steve williams]

Keep existing house router/wifi access point. Use Taiko router in series and create an audio exclusive connection to hifi for best sound?

Thats what I'm doing and my router will be sitting beside my switch with the Extreme on the Shelf above. My network is fine the way it is. My inly goal with the Taiko router is what it does to SQ. in my sound system. I have zero desires to use it in the house replacing my whole system router. I do understand that replacing ones router completely willl create the most customer service requests. IMO we should take Emile's advice and use it the way he suggested. Aren't we all wanting superior SQ and this seems to add an even greater uptick when placed in series with the house router.

 

[steve williams]

In the great scheme of Taiko updates, after the router IIRC will be the new Extreme with BPS and that will be end game for most, myself included

 

[Taiko Audio]

It seems to me that the router is going to be the most complicated new device to integrate into different Taiko users systems vs. the NIC card, Switch, BPS, TACDA/TACD.

I don't expect an answer to my scenario below, but it is an example of how looking at what I currently have installed and looking at the proposed Taiko Router possible configurations, makes me "scratch my head" and compose this post.


In my set up I have a Verizon ISP router that needs to be in the system for various tv/set top box reasons, then off one of the ports of the Verizon/Fios router I connect to a

Araknis-DUAL-WAN GIGABIT VPN ROUTER AN-31-RT-4L2W to distribute to 20 locations throughout the house.​

I have six each Araknis Networks AN-510-AP-I-AC AP's that are connected to hardwire connections from the ARaknis router located throughout the house.

My audio network (Extreme/Ipads/Macbook) that supplies hardwire to the Extreme and wireless for control via the AP's throughout the house is from the Araknis Router.

If I run the Taiko Router off of the Verizon router then how would I be able to utilize my six AP's that are already in place and connected to the Araknis router.

So, this is an example, and my question is will Taiko be helping people (like me) figuring out the best set up or will that be up to each individual to sort out their optimum network that meets the needs of the audio network as well as the rest of the required network for the other 20+ connected devices in the home?

Use one of the “Araknis Networks AN-510-AP-I-AC APs” to provide internet access to the audio router. Aka insert router in front of your extreme switch.

 

[Taiko Audio]

As far as the remote iPad goes, have you compared direct cable Lan vs WiFi to iPad?

I don’t use WiFi for anything, so with the Taiko Router/Switch combo feeding the Server, I would use a 2nd switch (Cisco) off the Taiko Router to connect to the iPad remote. (assuming this configuration will still allow the iPad to function as a Remote?).

You don’t need a 2nd switch. You can connect a hardwired device directly to the router. But I prefer WiFi.

 

[steve williams]

It's been a while since such a meaningful pearl has been dropped by Emile.......to me this is as good as it gets as it is the option I plan on using. My router will sit beside my switch and have nothing to do with the rest of my home network ...

This could be the pearl. of the month...

The best description I can come up with what this setup "adds" is stability. It creates a silent / black background in which images are projected with absolute stability, floating in air. There's also a significant increase in detailing, texture retrieval and soundstage, which is larger, airier and more enveloping at the same time, but the stability of it all is what stands out most for me, and this is somewhat of an eye opener as adding more devices to the Router degrade this stability, creating a somewhat diffusing effect and diminishing image positional precision. The amount of "traffic" created on your home network does not affect this stability, we tested high data rate downloads, 4K video streaming etc, this is virtually undetectable where it does noticeably impacts things without the Router in place. Another interesting discovery is remote control device to server connection speed/latency has an effect, faster is better here, a faster Ipad, or a less cluttered Ipad with less apps which create background activity installed sounds better. And this goes for both local file and streaming playback.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Dear Emile,

I have two separate internet services in my home, one is fiber, going to the Audio Network, and one is copper, going the home network, so they are completely isolated. In this case, which option should be better:
a) Program (if possible) the Taiko router in order to use it directly with the fiber input
b) Keep the current fiber modem and router, and place the Taiko router in series

Thanks.

Doesn’t matter much. I do significantly prefer rj45 into the router though so I would probably end up preferring b) for that reason.

 

[Rhapsody]

Keep existing house router/wifi access point. Use Taiko router in series and create an audio exclusive connection to hifi for best sound?

Thats what I'm doing and my router will be sitting beside my switch with the Extreme on the Shelf above. My network is fine the way it is. My inly goal with the Taiko router is what it does to SQ. in my sound system. I have zero desires to use it in the house replacing my whole system router. I do understand that replacing ones router completely willl create the most customer service requests. IMO we should take Emile's advice and use it the way he suggested. Aren't we all wanting superior SQ and this seems to add an even greater uptick when placed in series with the house router.

It's been a while since such a meaningful pearl has been dropped by Emile.......to me this is as good as it gets as it is the option I plan on using. My router will sit beside my switch and have nothing to do with the rest of my home network ...

This could be the pearl. of the month...

Steve, this works for you. I have three different rooms on different floors running off of the Extreme that I need Ipad control for in the various rooms/floors. Everyone's set up is not going to be as simple as your set up. What works for you might not work in all network situations.

 

[steve williams]

I get it Bob. I understand . The second option however seems to be the way to go if your system can be so configured. I have no idea. I do know that this option will work in my system and I have zero desires to replace my main router with this new taiko router. The second option seems best for a dedicated room/sound system.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile, in a configuration: Modem-Router (ISP) - Taiko Router- Taiko Switch, if the Modem-Router (ISP) already has Wifi access, is it still necessary to add a Wifi access point connected to the Taiko Router?

For maximum sound quality yes, as that will ensure there will be only one active wireless device (remote control) on your audio network, with the lowest possible remote control to server latency.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Quote

Does one AP create enough coverage for all rooms?

 

[nenon]

My suggestion is:

1. Taiko to provide a pre-configured plug&play solution as outlined in this diagram:


2. Provide support for this scenario only, and only for the part called "Audio Network" on the diagram above. Have a way to easily rollback to factory default settings (i.e. the config above).

3. Contract with an external consulting/support company that can provide paid support for any other configuration/variation.

4. Stop being so nice and enforce #2 & #3. Otherwise, as a small company, it can easily drown in home network support. And that won't be good for any of us.

 

[Taiko Audio]

My suggestion is:

1. Taiko to provide a pre-configured plug&play solution as outlined in this diagram:
View attachment 107998

2. Provide support for this scenario only, and only for the part called "Audio Network" on the diagram above. Have a way to easily rollback to factory default settings (i.e. the config above).

3. Contract with an external consulting/support company that can provide paid support for any other configuration/variation.

4. Stop being so nice and enforce #2 & #3. Otherwise, as a small company, it can easily drown in home network support. And that won't be good for any of us.

That is indeed the intention, we’d supply a complete Plug&Play preconfigured package, AP included. And indeed support would be a nightmare on deviating configurations, not to mention the loss of guaranteed SQ performance.

 

[VPN]

That is indeed the intention, we’d supply a complete Plug&Play preconfigured package, AP included. And indeed support would be a nightmare on deviating configurations, not to mention the loss of guaranteed SQ performance.

Dear Emile,
The ipad I use for Taiko is quite old. If I should purchase a new, audio only tablet, which one sounds best? Ipad or Android?
Cheers

 

[Rhapsody]

Does one AP create enough coverage for all rooms?

No, that's my issue. I need one for almost every room as they are stone and brick walls....ugh And I use the Extreme connected to the DAC in the main room, but then run long XLR's to the room next to it and other XLRs through the floor to a room downstairs. I just change the xlr's on the dac and get to use the Extreme driving three rooms this way, BUT I need Ipad control in all three rooms.

Edit: I will figure my situation out. I was using it as an example to clarify how much Taiko should or should not offer with regards to network support.

As Emile suggested I probably just need two wifi extenders in my other rooms. I will know once I insert the router and see how strong the wifi signal from the Taiko Router is. Maybe I will be able to pick up the wifi for the Ipad in the room directly under where the router will be located and as well as the room which is next to the room where the Router will sit.

Fun times!

 

[Rhapsody]

My suggestion is:

1. Taiko to provide a pre-configured plug&play solution as outlined in this diagram:
View attachment 107998

2. Provide support for this scenario only, and only for the part called "Audio Network" on the diagram above. Have a way to easily rollback to factory default settings (i.e. the config above).

3. Contract with an external consulting/support company that can provide paid support for any other configuration/variation.

4. Stop being so nice and enforce #2 & #3. Otherwise, as a small company, it can easily drown in home network support. And that won't be good for any of us.

This was my point. I still believe that I will need further network support and I agree Taiko should NOT be offering this free support.

 

[Taiko Audio]

This was my point. I still believe that I will need further network support and I agree Taiko should NOT be offering this free support.

How about a few Wi-Fi extenders for your audio Wi-Fi? It’s not like these are very expensive