I’m curious what users of TAS with the USB board are doing with their single, double and quad stacked switches. It seems to be that not only are they not necessary, but with the Taiko USB board they might even have an adverse effect
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
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YES it is a good thought!
I have been seriously thinking of adding a (more) switches but it maybe wiser to 'bite the bullet' and work toward an Extreme as the simplest and best path even though sacrificially expensive.
Korean SGM Extreme users also received Taiko USB Card and used it.
We had no sooner install Taiko USB Card than we were very shocked.
Korean SGM Extreme users have some complaints about their systems,
but Taiko USB Card and TAS combination make their complaints be solved almost all.
Emile and Edward proved current situation of Digital Source and show the way of Digital devices.
Now, SGM Extreme sound had huge difference in other music servers' quality.
Is there the upper quality of Digital Source??
I can't imagine about that, but two legendary engineers must make me be shocked.
We had no sooner install Taiko USB Card than we were very shocked.
Korean SGM Extreme users have some complaints about their systems,
but Taiko USB Card and TAS combination make their complaints be solved almost all.
Emile and Edward proved current situation of Digital Source and show the way of Digital devices.
Now, SGM Extreme sound had huge difference in other music servers' quality.
Is there the upper quality of Digital Source??
I can't imagine about that, but two legendary engineers must make me be shocked.
Great pics,
I saw the 256 gb octane in slot 4. Is it OK to install it in slot 4?
I haven't gotten my Taiko USB card yet, and I already am of the opinion that my digital and vinyl are close enough that it purely gets down to the mastering as to which I prefer - - the differences are just not enough to sweat, and both can sound simply amazing when everything is in alignment. I can't wait to pop in the card on...(checks UPS, AGAIN).... Friday!Here's a post I never thought I'd write, but now that I've had the USB board in for a week, I'm obliged to comment. Be warned, what I'm about to say is outright heresy. To begin, the USB board break-in is fairly predictable. The first day gives you a taste of what's to come and it is no wonder that you will be up half the night listening. Then things shut down for a few days. There's a tad of brightness that might make you question your purchase and makes you wonder if all those accolades you've heard are deserved. But fear not, by day 5 things have smoothed out beautifully and by day 7, a new dawn emerges that will leave you wanting to put in an IV line and a catheter so you don't have to leave the listening room.
It was at this point that I decided to do the "ultimate" comparison and A/B an LP to a streaming source or file played through the Extreme/Lampizator. My analog rig is a Doehmann Helix One Mk II/ Reed 3P/ ZYX Uni Premium/Zanden 1200 MkIII, so its a worthy contender to enter the ring. I queued up track after track so I could simply switch level matched inputs remotely on the Soulution 725 preamp. Tracks were begun simultaneously so content was seamless as the switches were made. It is with great difficulty and amazement to learn that after decades of listening to music, a threshold has been crossed that now make these sort of A/B comparisons all but insignificant. We would all like to think we are good and experienced listeners, but I wouldn't bet so much as a Diet Pepsi that many could distinguish my digital from analog sources with a probability of p < 0.05 in a blinded comparison. Let's be clear.That doesn't mean there aren't differences when performing this task. But for all intent and purpose, they become obstacles to enjoying the music unless you really, really, really like playing the game of trivial pursuit.
Here is my most important take away. If I had a dollar for every time I've perseverated about a hundredth of a degree of VTA, a change of tracking force of 0.05 grams, a miniscule change of anti-skate, a tiny, tiny amount of azimuth, and the nightmare of dealing with LPs of different thickness, I could probably have bought a pair of Chronosonics several times over. This is the real horror of our beloved hobby and its one that nobody really want to talk about because its so damn exasperating. If you think that the entire microcosm of cartridge/arm geometry doesn't change for different record thicknesses, then we just see things differently. It's no surprise that even the most avid hobbyist would wish this subject would simply disappear as it's simply too depressing to think about it other than to say its somewhat of a minor miracle we manage to coax out the occasional great sonics we do from our TT rigs.
But things are different now, and I mean as of right now. This very moment. At least for me. Frankly, I never thought I would see this day, but here it is. There surely might be times I choose to play an LP and open up that pandora's box of hoping that my set-up is truly optimum for the LP that's spinning at the moment. Or... I can simply push a button, start listening, and smile. It really has come down to that. That's why, at least for me, the Taiko Extreme with the USB board is genuinely a game changer.
It really all comes down to these words of wisdom that a good friend of mine told me this morning. (No names, but his initials are SW) and here is what he said. "All you have to do now to hear great music is push a button because its so f***n simple and so f***n good." End of story.
Regarding your point of the minute adjustments to wring the most out of vinyl, I have also found that you cannot simply mic the thickness of the LP and adjust your tonearm to compensate based upon other LP's of like thickness. It seems the grooves are of differing depths, too, necessitating even more individual evaluation and refinement. At least with my Triplanar I can record my preferred setting to repeat for the next play.... Vinyl does seem to impose an element of masochistic fiddling that is totally eliminated in the Extreme ecosystem. It is a relief, somewhat akin to SW's thoughts.
Very nicely put and spot on. BUT, I will still play my records some time, which means cartridge money is first in line.?Here's a post I never thought I'd write, but now that I've had the USB board in for a week, I'm obliged to comment. Be warned, what I'm about to say is outright heresy. To begin, the USB board break-in is fairly predictable. The first day gives you a taste of what's to come and it is no wonder that you will be up half the night listening. Then things shut down for a few days. There's a tad of brightness that might make you question your purchase and makes you wonder if all those accolades you've heard are deserved. But fear not, by day 5 things have smoothed out beautifully and by day 7, a new dawn emerges that will leave you wanting to put in an IV line and a catheter so you don't have to leave the listening room.
It was at this point that I decided to do the "ultimate" comparison and A/B an LP to a streaming source or file played through the Extreme/Lampizator. My analog rig is a Doehmann Helix One Mk II/ Reed 3P/ ZYX Uni Premium/Zanden 1200 MkIII, so its a worthy contender to enter the ring. I queued up track after track so I could simply switch level matched inputs remotely on the Soulution 725 preamp. Tracks were begun simultaneously so content was seamless as the switches were made. It is with great difficulty and amazement to learn that after decades of listening to music, a threshold has been crossed that now make these sort of A/B comparisons all but insignificant. We would all like to think we are good and experienced listeners, but I wouldn't bet so much as a Diet Pepsi that many could distinguish my digital from analog sources with a probability of p < 0.05 in a blinded comparison. Let's be clear.That doesn't mean there aren't differences when performing this task. But for all intent and purpose, they become obstacles to enjoying the music unless you really, really, really like playing the game of trivial pursuit.
Here is my most important take away. If I had a dollar for every time I've perseverated about a hundredth of a degree of VTA, a change of tracking force of 0.05 grams, a miniscule change of anti-skate, a tiny, tiny amount of azimuth, and the nightmare of dealing with LPs of different thickness, I could probably have bought a pair of Chronosonics several times over. This is the real horror of our beloved hobby and its one that nobody really want to talk about because its so damn exasperating. If you think that the entire microcosm of cartridge/arm geometry doesn't change for different record thicknesses, then we just see things differently. It's no surprise that even the most avid hobbyist would wish this subject would simply disappear as it's simply too depressing to think about it other than to say its somewhat of a minor miracle we manage to coax out the occasional great sonics we do from our TT rigs.
But things are different now, and I mean as of right now. This very moment. At least for me. Frankly, I never thought I would see this day, but here it is. There surely might be times I choose to play an LP and open up that pandora's box of hoping that my set-up is truly optimum for the LP that's spinning at the moment. Or... I can simply push a button, start listening, and smile. It really has come down to that. That's why, at least for me, the Taiko Extreme with the USB board is genuinely a game changer.
It really all comes down to these words of wisdom that a good friend of mine told me this morning. (No names, but his initials are SW
Steve, I'm intrigued as to why you think the switches are or may be no longer needed? It would save a lot of people a lot of money. May be I missed a post somewhere about this? Thanks.
In this configuration only 2 of the 4 storage drives placed in slot 3 will be available as slots 3 and 4 share half the PCIe lanes.
IIRC Emile posted something a week or two ago that the switches with TAS and the USB board causes top end roll off or did I imagine that
I recall Emile saying that his M12 switch was not beneficial in his system with the TAS/new USB set up. Bob (Rhapsody) reported the same after TAS.
Kris, who has a seriously tricked out set-up (with multiple switches, clocks, power supplies), reported they still improve his sq after TAS. I don't think he's said if that's still the case after the USB card? I'd be curious to know about that. I believe Markus Barkus also has a clock-modded Buffalo switch...
I have a Melco switch with nice Sean Jacob power supply and am looking forward to comparing with and without now.
The switch that Emile was referring to does have a “reputation” for being a bit colored, based on what I have read. I have never owned one so I can’t speak to personal experience.
I would be surprised if people are going to eliminate their switches even with the USB card. Time will tell.
You will still hear a difference. What I recommend doing is to re-evaluate your setup. It may not net out positive anymore. For example I have noticed dulled dynamics or a rolled off top end. I am currently redesigning our own switch in an attempt to have it net out positive in all areas.
Once my card is burned in my plan is to compare the sound with and without switches. Of course, I am looking forward to what you guys come up with. Having you control the end to end solution is the ideal scenario.
The modus operandi appears to be different then what it is generally assumed to be. To be continued!
Don't you love the scientific process?
It's good to challenge (or at least revisit) existing dogmas once in a while.
Is there anything on the horizon that may improve SQ for on-board (non streaming) playback?
I do hereby reserve the right to come up with a no switch at all recommendation
I now have about 200 hours on the USB card, and as good as it sounded at t=0, the improvement with burn-in is substantial. As @ray-dude and others have accurately portrayed, there are dips and valleys. Note for the mathematically inclined: these are local minima. At no point does SQ dip below the previous default of the built-in USB port. The turning point for me was at about t=100 hours. After that, there has been a smaller further gain, but it has all been for the better.
I have no new superlatives to add to what so many now have eloquently expressed. Simply put, the Taiko USB card is a game changer, on a system (the Extreme) that in itself is a game changer compared to the competition.
It is not uncommon for a new component to reveal more micro-details. It is not uncommon for a component to sound more focused and coherent, with better articulation of the music, especially in bass lines. It is not uncommon for a component to impart a tonal richness and texture to the music. And It is even not uncommon for a component to project an immersive holographic soundstage.
What IS uncommon is for a single component to do all these things. This is what the Taiko USB card does. In my opinion, this is not an optional addition to the Extreme. If you care enough about SQ to invest in an Extreme, you want to tick the box for the USB card in your order. It's that good!
I have no new superlatives to add to what so many now have eloquently expressed. Simply put, the Taiko USB card is a game changer, on a system (the Extreme) that in itself is a game changer compared to the competition.
It is not uncommon for a new component to reveal more micro-details. It is not uncommon for a component to sound more focused and coherent, with better articulation of the music, especially in bass lines. It is not uncommon for a component to impart a tonal richness and texture to the music. And It is even not uncommon for a component to project an immersive holographic soundstage.
What IS uncommon is for a single component to do all these things. This is what the Taiko USB card does. In my opinion, this is not an optional addition to the Extreme. If you care enough about SQ to invest in an Extreme, you want to tick the box for the USB card in your order. It's that good!
Regarding switches...
My configuration for some months now has stayed consistent, and comprises a 3-switch chain:
Upstream > Supra Cat 8 > (A) eR (A) > Sablon Eth > modded Buffalo > Planet SFP > sNH-10g > Finisar SFP > Extreme
The first 2 switches are powered by Paul Hynes custom SR-7 DR 12v rails, while the SOtM switch has an SR-7 DR 15v rail driving a dual-stage DXPWR DXP-1A5DSC with output 12v.
My “network off“ action consists of powering down the DXPWR. This powers down the fiber link connected to the Extreme.
I'm exploring 2 questions wrt the network:
1. What is the impact of the network ON vs. OFF with the new USB card in place, for LOCAL playback?
2. What is the impact of the "full monty" 3-switch chain vs. a simple connection to the upstream, for STREAMING playback?
This post will address question 1. In essence, this is evaluating whether the presence of the network affects SQ during local playback, which does not actually require network access. For this test, I used TAS > HQP/NAA as the music player.
Results
There is an impact.
Admittedly, the delta is quite small. Listening to the song Ay Candela from the Buena Vista Social Club, with the network off, there’s a slight sweetening of the sound, i.e. a slight reduction in harshness, the percussion (maraca?) becomes more coherent, individual voices snap into better focus.
Again, the difference is a few %, say 95% with the network on to 100% with network off.
For most situations, I don't bother to turn the network off any more, but when I want to really immerse myself in a piece of music, I can still squeeze a few more drops of sound quality by turning the network off.
I'll report on question 2 in a day or two.
My configuration for some months now has stayed consistent, and comprises a 3-switch chain:
Upstream > Supra Cat 8 > (A) eR (A) > Sablon Eth > modded Buffalo > Planet SFP > sNH-10g > Finisar SFP > Extreme
The first 2 switches are powered by Paul Hynes custom SR-7 DR 12v rails, while the SOtM switch has an SR-7 DR 15v rail driving a dual-stage DXPWR DXP-1A5DSC with output 12v.
My “network off“ action consists of powering down the DXPWR. This powers down the fiber link connected to the Extreme.
I'm exploring 2 questions wrt the network:
1. What is the impact of the network ON vs. OFF with the new USB card in place, for LOCAL playback?
2. What is the impact of the "full monty" 3-switch chain vs. a simple connection to the upstream, for STREAMING playback?
This post will address question 1. In essence, this is evaluating whether the presence of the network affects SQ during local playback, which does not actually require network access. For this test, I used TAS > HQP/NAA as the music player.
Results
There is an impact.
Admittedly, the delta is quite small. Listening to the song Ay Candela from the Buena Vista Social Club, with the network off, there’s a slight sweetening of the sound, i.e. a slight reduction in harshness, the percussion (maraca?) becomes more coherent, individual voices snap into better focus.
Again, the difference is a few %, say 95% with the network on to 100% with network off.
For most situations, I don't bother to turn the network off any more, but when I want to really immerse myself in a piece of music, I can still squeeze a few more drops of sound quality by turning the network off.
I'll report on question 2 in a day or two.
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