Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

At risk of stating the obvious, disconnecting or powering off “the network” entirely disables internal nic activity. This is quite different from comparing switch A to switch B. Disabling the nic will always sound slightly better, similar to disabling the video output does (the reason for the need of that double tap to shutdown the Extreme), or any other processes or activity for that matter.

Very interested in a Sotm vs Buffalo test if manageable to execute.

 

[wil]

Regarding switches...

My configuration for some months now has stayed consistent, and comprises a 3-switch chain:

Upstream > Supra Cat 8 > (A) eR (A) > Sablon Eth > modded Buffalo > Planet SFP > sNH-10g > Finisar SFP > Extreme

The first 2 switches are powered by Paul Hynes custom SR-7 DR 12v rails, while the SOtM switch has an SR-7 DR 15v rail driving a dual-stage DXPWR DXP-1A5DSC with output 12v.

My “network off“ action consists of powering down the DXPWR. This powers down the fiber link connected to the Extreme.

I'm exploring 2 questions wrt the network:
1. What is the impact of the network ON vs. OFF with the new USB card in place, for LOCAL playback?
2. What is the impact of the "full monty" 3-switch chain vs. a simple connection to the upstream, for STREAMING playback?

This post will address question 1. In essence, this is evaluating whether the presence of the network affects SQ during local playback, which does not actually require network access. For this test, I used TAS > HQP/NAA as the music player.

Results

There is an impact.

Admittedly, the delta is quite small. Listening to the song Ay Candela from the Buena Vista Social Club, with the network off, there’s a slight sweetening of the sound, i.e. a slight reduction in harshness, the percussion (maraca?) becomes more coherent, individual voices snap into better focus.

Again, the difference is a few %, say 95% with the network on to 100% with network off.

For most situations, I don't bother to turn the network off any more, but when I want to really immerse myself in a piece of music, I can still squeeze a few more drops of sound quality by turning the network off.

I'll report on question 2 in a day or two.

austinpop, two questions?

-- When you disconnect the network for local playback, what's your reasoning for turning off the power supply rather than disconnecting the fiber from the sfp? More convenient? I ask because I thought it might take some time for the power supply to get it's caps charged back up for optimal performance?

-- Have you tried to play a streamed album without the Network? I have tried, with TAS Batch Play, with no success. Maybe there's a step in the process I'm overlooking, or maybe it can't be done?

 

[dminches]

At risk of stating the obvious, disconnecting or powering off “the network” entirely disables internal nic activity. This is quite different from comparing switch A to switch B. Disabling the nic will always sound slightly better, similar to disabling the video output does (the reason for the need of that double tap to shutdown the Extreme), or any other processes or activity for that matter.

Very interested in a Sotm vs Buffalo test if manageable to execute.

Emile, can you explain why a double tap is needed to shut down the Extreme? Does the first tap just shut down the video card? Should we be doing that?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile, can you explain why a double tap is needed to shut down the Extreme? Does the first tap just shut down the video card? Should we be doing that?

The first tap enables the video output, the second shuts down the Extreme.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

I believe Markus Barkus also has a clock-modded Buffalo switch...

Yes, I have the modded Buffalo switch @nenon graciously upgraded with the deluxe PF OXCO. G-wiz that thing is sweet.

When Ed got me set-up he recommended I remove the PFBuff and an eReGen upstream. I did so and ran it for 2-3 weeks that way. Sounded great.

A few days ago I replaced the Planet SFP in the Sonore OM with a Finisar SFP+ and added back my beloved PFBuff, receiving optical data using the Finisar SFP+. I then output via Planet SFP to the Extreme (Planet SFP).

Got that? SFP+ transceivers on both ends of a 35' fiber run. Then a two-meter fiber patch via SFPs to Taiko.

Note: due to issues on my end, my USB card was delayed, so this post is with "stock" Extreme. I will re-evaluate with the card in a few days.

I like the PFBuff and it sounds very clean with that little OXCO baking away. I'd drape a dead woodchuck over the Extreme if you guys think it'll boost SQ...

 

[austinpop]

Very interested in a Sotm vs Buffalo test if manageable to execute.

Certainly Emile, happy to oblige.

My original plan was simply to compare "basic connection" with "full monty 3-switch chain," but I'll now add 2 more test scenarios. So the test will now compare Extreme (with new USB card) SQ, when the network path is:

1. Basic connection:
Upstream > Supra Cat 8 > Sonore opticalModule > Finisar SFP > Extreme
2. Single switch - modded Buffalo:
Upstream > Supra Cat 8 > modded Buffalo > Finisar SFP > Extreme
3. Single switch - SOtM:
Upstream > Supra Cat 8 > SOtM > Finisar SFP > Extreme
4. Full Monty 3-switch stack:
Upstream > Supra Cat 8 > (A) eR (A) > Sablon Eth > modded Buffalo > Planet SFP > sNH-10g > Finisar SFP > Extreme

To clarify: my "modded Buffalo" is a Buffalo BS-GS2016 switch, modded to remove the internal SMPS and be powered by an external LPS. It also has a cap board of @nenon 's own design. This unit does not have a PF OCXO clock.

 

[austinpop]

austinpop, two questions?

-- When you disconnect the network for local playback, what's your reasoning for turning off the power supply rather than disconnecting the fiber from the sfp? More convenient? I ask because I thought it might take some time for the power supply to get it's caps charged back up for optimal performance?

Yes, it is more convenient. And you are right about not powering off the main PSU. I may have gone off in the weeds by bringing up the DXPWR box. It's this unit: https://www.ldovr.com/product-p/dxp-1a5dsc.htm

This simply has an additional set of 2 regulators in a tiny enclosure that goes between the actual PSU and the target device. It's limited to 1.5A, but for suitable devices, it actually provides an SQ uplift even over the SR7 DR output.

So what I'm turning off (via a mechanical switch) is this box, NOT the SR-7! In any case, the SOtM switch also has a mechanical on/off switch that you can use to cut power quickly and easily. This is actually why I'm using the SOtM switch as the last in the chain, for 2 reasons:
1. Easy on/off switch
2. Reboots in under 5 seconds. Unlike the Buffalo or Melco switches, that can take 1-2 mins to reboot.

-- Have you tried to play a streamed album without the Network? I have tried, with TAS Batch Play, with no success. Maybe there's a step in the process I'm overlooking, or maybe it can't be done?

Honestly no, because as a DAVE user, upsampling is critical for SQ, and for streaming music, I need to use HQPlayer/NAA to achieve this. Currently there is no "batched" TAS/HQP.

Emile/Ed/Wilson have correctly prioritized their initial focus in the alpha and beta on driving the SQ of TAS to the highest possible.

As a DAVE user, what I am hoping for is the functionality in TAS/HQP to batch an entire streamed album (or queue), and then play it back — gaplessly! — with the network OFF. That will be audio nirvana.

 

[Bobvin]

Certainly Emile, happy to oblige.

My original plan was simply to compare "basic connection" with "full monty 3-switch chain," but I'll now add 2 more test scenarios. So the test will now compare Extreme (with new USB card) SQ, when the network path is:

1. Basic connection:
Upstream > Supra Cat 8 > Sonore opticalModule > Finisar SFP > Extreme
2. Single switch - modded Buffalo:
Upstream > Supra Cat 8 > modded Buffalo > Finisar SFP > Extreme
3. Single switch - SOtM:
Upstream > Supra Cat 8 > SOtM > Finisar SFP > Extreme
4. Full Monty 3-switch stack:
Upstream > Supra Cat 8 > (A) eR (A) > Sablon Eth > modded Buffalo > Planet SFP > sNH-10g > Finisar SFP > Extreme

To clarify: my "modded Buffalo" is a Buffalo BS-GS2016 switch, modded to remove the internal SMPS and be powered by an external LPS. It also has a cap board of @nenon 's own design. This unit does not have a PF OCXO clock.

Forgive me for jumping in here, I’ve been lurking for a while. I think Marty said, somewhere above, how much he appreciates his extreme server digital experience, just push the button. No more analog VTA madness, etc. Then I read the above, a switch here, a power supply there, a stack of this and a stack of that. Somebody even swore he’d put a dead woodchuck in the mix if it helped sound quality.

Now, I never have been VTA obsessed. I’m much more dial-it-in as best as possible guy then enjoy and no extra fussing. But when I read the above ’stack of this and that‘ I don’t see how this is somehow a ‘just push the button and enjoy” thing.

I love the idea my digital can reach the SQ of my analog, but where does the ‘push button and enjoy’ come in? Seems like a whole lot of fuss’n going on.

(Also forgive me, this might have better posted on a more general digital audio thread. No disrespect intended to Emile or the Taiko folks.)

 

[Taiko Audio]

I love the idea my digital can reach the SQ of my analog, but where does the ‘push button and enjoy’ come in? Seems like a whole lot of fuss’n going on.

Although its a frequently discussed topic in this thread, I’d estimate only about 15% of our customer base is actually “playing around” with this.

 

[spiritofmusic]

It's an urban myth that analog has to be finickety or endlessly fussy. Maybe if you own multiple tts/arms/carts, and are myopic on setup.
Its possible to take less than 30 mins to setup an arm and cart...a once and only action until 1500 LPs are played and a new retip needs to go in, 5 mins once only to clean an LP, mere seconds to choose VTA on each record.
The only likely add on gear are a stable level platform and possible LPS for phono, and record cleaner.
What's so difficult about that?

 

[Rhapsody]

Forgive me for jumping in here, I’ve been lurking for a while. I think Marty said, somewhere above, how much he appreciates his extreme server digital experience, just push the button. No more analog VTA madness, etc. Then I read the above, a switch here, a power supply there, a stack of this and a stack of that. Somebody even swore he’d put a dead woodchuck in the mix if it helped sound quality.

Now, I never have been VTA obsessed. I’m much more dial-it-in as best as possible guy then enjoy and no extra fussing. But when I read the above ’stack of this and that‘ I don’t see how this is somehow a ‘just push the button and enjoy” thing.

I love the idea my digital can reach the SQ of my analog, but where does the ‘push button and enjoy’ come in? Seems like a whole lot of fuss’n going on.

(Also forgive me, this might have better posted on a more general digital audio thread. No disrespect intended to Emile or the Taiko folks.)

I used to "play around" with the network and heard substantial difference because of it. That was prior to TAS, then the usb Taiko USB driver and finally now the Taiko USB card. Now I just have a cheap copper cable running 50' from a router into the Extreme and I'm a happy camper, just enjoying music. Plug. Play. Enjoy.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

@Bobvin I already had a lot of the network infrastructure (and the woodchuck) before I bought the Extreme.

Actually, it was kind of an attempt to create with ancillary products and tweaks what Team Taiko has achieved with the Extreme itself.

I have the gear, so I'm plugging some of it (the switch) back in to test, but just adding the Extreme server to a system is fantastic.

No need for a lot of other stuff. Most of it is already on the re-sale boards for me. Except the woodchuck. He stays...

 

[marty]

If you think the new USB board was a great sonic value, you really should consider this.
I am now offering a custom front plate for the Taiko Extreme, appropriately called "The DWE" (Dead Woodchuck Edition) for only $2000.






You simply won't believe how much better it makes the Extreme sound! In addition, it now brings the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) of your system to a new all time low, which we're told some folks really like because it greatly facilitates their listening privacy. PayPal adds 2.5%.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Never have so many Groundhogs died for such a worthy cause.

 

[Steve williams]

I used to "play around" with the network and heard substantial difference because of it. That was prior to TAS, then the usb Taiko USB driver and finally now the Taiko USB card. Now I just have a cheap copper cable running 50' from a router into the Extreme and I'm a happy camper, just enjoying music. Plug. Play. Enjoy.

I run an 8 meter Triode Wire Labs Ethernet cable from my satellite to my Extreme Nothing in between

 

[Bobvin]

If you think the new USB board was a great sonic value, you really should consider this.
I am now offering a custom front plate for the Taiko Extreme, appropriately called "The DWE" (Dead Woodchuck Edition) for only $2000.


View attachment 76802



You simply won't believe how much better it makes the Extreme sound! In addition, it now brings the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) of your system to a new all time low, which we're told some folks really like because it greatly facilitates their listening privacy. PayPal adds 2.5%.

No fuss'n, no stack'n, no tweak'n. I'm starting my savings now for the Taiko Extreme DWE! Just push once on the Dead Woodchuck and the promise of sonic bliss is realized.

I'll have to check with Bob.east to see if the RLRs will be offering the DWE?

 

[Downtheline]

Nothing in between

Steve is going commando

 

[Rhapsody]

No fuss'n, no stack'n, no tweak'n. I'm starting my savings now for the Taiko Extreme DWE! Just push once on the Dead Woodchuck and the promise of sonic bliss is realized.

I'll have to check with Bob.east to see if the RLRs will be offering the DWE?

Nope, I've heard Marty is only selling direct, no dealers for DWE

 

[microstrip]

As my USB card installation needed swapping several cards I lost access to my DXD files during the process. Yesterday Emile entered my Extreme, told me how set the bios and installed a new USB driver, so I can listen to DXD in the new conditions. Fabulous music, extremely nuanced and fluid. Great sound and a great and friendly service - and it was really nice seeing the impeccable Extreme innards!

 

[dminches]

For people with multi PCI storage cards is the storage configured as a single logical drive or multiple?