Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Kris]

I think I need to clarify network activity impact on sound quality. In a normal home setup with a X number of devices, smart TVs, streaming devices, desktop computers, notebooks, smartphones, tablets, smart lighting, smart household appliances, etc etc, adding more devices with a relatively small increase in total network activity is not that noticeable.

However when you create a new network for audio, using a dedicated router, with a bare minimum of devices, with overall very low activity, and the activity which is there is controlled on the router and connected devices, any additional device creating additional and uncontrolled network activity suddenly does become noticeable.

In my current setup for example (which is the setup on the earlier posted diagrams), I use both my iphone and my ipad to control my Extreme. If I have both connected to the dedicated audio Wi-Fi Access Point at the same time, it’s instantly noticeable. So I only connect one of the two to the Audio Wi-Fi and switch the other to the “Home” Wi-Fi when listening to music.

Fantastic idea.
just avoid 192.168.1.1. This one is used in majority of the routers.
It will be so much easier for all of us to have the same network structure.

 

[aLLeARS]

@Kris,
Have you tried isolating your wi-fi AP from your router with fiber optic?
I did this using format converters on my previous set up and it made a big difference over copper.

 

[Kris]

@Kris,
Have you tried isolating your wi-fi AP from your router with fiber optic?
I did this using format converters on my previous set up and it made a big difference over copper.

I have 6 different optical SFPs. Tried them all but prefer all copper .
Every conversion copper to optical and back generates noise.

 

[theaudiogeek]

I have 6 different optical SFPs. Tried them all but prefer all copper .
Every conversion copper to optical and back generates noise.

I'm in the same boat. I badly wanted to get rid off the optical stuff. Waiting for the router. It will be a huge uptick in SQ in my case.

 

[John T]

Evidently BAD NIC CARD. 5 hours messing with this...Took it upon myself to take the new card out, after the top was screwed back on. Inserted the old card, low and behold the Extreme showed up...What a PITA...Then with Edwards help and him creating a diagram I checked the splitter cable with a multi meter to rule out that...Brutal...No sense in crawling into the fetal position. These things happen...Taiko has reached out and hopefully the situation can be resolved in a timely fashion...

 

[jelt2359]

I’m thinking we should implement VNC and file share access port forwarding by default. The Extreme could be assigned a permanent IP address, always the same, on all routers. That adds the benefit of decreasing support load for us. Your VNC / file share access IP address from your home network would then become the IP address assigned to the Taiko router by your home network router.

Or you simply connect your Macbook Pro to the audio Wi-Fi access point if you want to copy music or access the Extremes desktop and disconnect when done.

The reason I set up the static route was not for music copying- I listen to headphones only, and so I’m at my desk connected to the internet at all times on my MacBook and on the same device I have my XDMS open and listening to music on my extreme at all times. So on this device I really need to be connected to the home network and yet still be able to access the extreme.

It sounds like what you’re suggesting would work too as I’ll be able access the extreme on my home network, although I think I would also need XDMS port forwarding?

 

[cmarin]

Yes, as they will then increase network activity on the “audio” network.

Every powered on device connected to a network creates network activity.

Most mobile devices, like iphones, ipads or android devices even create network activity in “standby / screen switched off” mode.

If you power off your MacBook Pro during music playback it should not generate network activity, but your NAS will for sure.

Thanks Emile.
So the easy solution is to turn off the NAS and the MacBook Pro during playback and turn them on only during burning CDs or TeamViewer sessions.

 

[SaiteiMan]

HI Emile, I have the Motorola cable modem which doesn't have switch/router/wifi function. Please advise which configuration is preferred.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks Emile.
So the easy solution is to turn off the NAS and the MacBook Pro during playback and turn them on only during burning CDs or TeamViewer sessions.

That would work.

 

[Taiko Audio]

HI Emile, I have the Motorola cable modem which doesn't have switch/router/wifi function. Please advise which configuration is preferred.

Those 2 configurations are the same from my POV. I would expect most people to have integrated Wi-Fi routers.

 

[SwissTom]

We will have to add VNC and filesharing port forwarding rules of course, but keep in mind less is more for SQ..

@Taiko Audio Hi Emile,


Thank you for your reply.


The idea of having two sets of rules for the Taiko Router (full-isolation and full-access) comes from a need:


CONVENIENCE:

- Backup the Extreme (audio files, roon settings, etc.) to a NAS located in the home network.

- Access the Extreme from the home network.


AUDIO :

- Maximum audio quality via complete isolation, which is the purpose of the router after all.



My network knowledge is limited, but I believe this is possible.



The question is:

- Is having two sets of rules for the Taiko Router a good idea?

- is the software in the Taiko Router user friendly enough for the job?



But maybe this is not a general need and there is no point in discussing it here.


Of course, for backup, a USB hard drive plugged into the Extreme would do the job just fine (although it's far from ideal).



As far as I'm concerned, I store everything on my NAS and it's the NAS that I backup.

In my context, I like to backup my stuff like so :

Devices (including the Extreme) ---> NAS ---> Backup

 

[SwissTom]

@Taiko Audio

Hi Emile,

Another question.

As I may have mentioned before, I am currently building my listening room.

So I'm going to plan a spot for the WiFi AP.

As the Taiko Router is not PoE capable, I need to plan a power outlet as well.

At what minimum distance should the WiFi AP be placed?

Knowing that the intensity of electromagnetic fields decreases with the square of the distance, 2-3 meters should be enough, right?

Regarding the WiFi AP. I assume that an Ubiquiti AP is the right choice since, if I understand correctly, the router will embed Ubiquiti software.

Cheers,

Thomas

 

[John T]

One seldom or typically, never can get a response from a company to resolve an issue this quickly. As indicated I had an issue with the new card. Taiko has already initiated replacement. Can't ask for anything more than that...

 

[VPN]

Dear Emile,
What is the best sounding length of the dac cable between the switch and the network board? 1m? 2m? I can use either.
Thanks.

 

[Rhapsody]

When the possible 30 % uptick in SQ was originally given for the Switch/card I wasn't quite sure about it. Now I'm not sure if the SQ uptick was not under estimated at a 30% bump.

Is there any ballpark guesstimate for the expected uptick in SQ when the router is inserted into a system, which already has the Switch/card?

 

[Taiko Audio]

@Taiko Audio Hi Emile,


Thank you for your reply.


The idea of having two sets of rules for the Taiko Router (full-isolation and full-access) comes from a need:


CONVENIENCE:

- Backup the Extreme (audio files, roon settings, etc.) to a NAS located in the home network.

- Access the Extreme from the home network.


AUDIO :

- Maximum audio quality via complete isolation, which is the purpose of the router after all.



My network knowledge is limited, but I believe this is possible.



The question is:

- Is having two sets of rules for the Taiko Router a good idea?

- is the software in the Taiko Router user friendly enough for the job?



But maybe this is not a general need and there is no point in discussing it here.


Of course, for backup, a USB hard drive plugged into the Extreme would do the job just fine (although it's far from ideal).



As far as I'm concerned, I store everything on my NAS and it's the NAS that I backup.

In my context, I like to backup my stuff like so :

Devices (including the Extreme) ---> NAS ---> Backup

I’d say this is a premature discussion, things are still in a state of flux.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Dear Emile,
What is the best sounding length of the dac cable between the switch and the network board? 1m? 2m? I can use either.
Thanks.

I don’t have a preference for which length to use.

 

[Taiko Audio]

When the possible 30 % uptick in SQ was originally given for the Switch/card I wasn't quite sure about it. Now I'm not sure if the SQ uptick was not under estimated at a 30% bump.

Is there any ballpark guesstimate for the expected uptick in SQ when the router is inserted into a system, which already has the Switch/card?

It’s very hard to quantify as the improvement are in a different realm then the switch/networkcard.

Also we’re still making progress, for example we just designed a “power splitter” with additional filtering allowing powering multiple devices from one power supply while minimising “cross contamination”. Right now I have the Switch, Router and Access Point running of 1 LPS using this “splitter” which actually for sure sounds better then a seperate LPS for Switch and Router. The jury is still out on the Access Point, because you need a 12V powered model for this to work for obvious reasons introducing 2 variables I may need a few days for to figure out, and the splitter/filter needs some burn in ofcourse…

 

[Taiko Audio]

@Taiko Audio

At what minimum distance should the WiFi AP be placed?

I actually don’t think the “airborne” part of Wi-Fi impacts anything. It’s more the powerside of it which can cause some “discomfort”.

 

[Taiko Audio]

@Taiko Audio

I assume that an Ubiquiti AP is the right choice since, if I understand correctly, the router will embed Ubiquiti software.

Cheers,

Thomas

Not set on Ubiquity, currently comparing several different models / brands. PoE models do sound “worse” then DC 12V in models so far, unfortunately all recent Ubiquity models are PoE.