Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Bobvin]

I think the Extreme (and the Horizon) are striking looking regardless of placement. And confirmed, sound incredible. Taiko switch patiently awaiting his router and power distributor siblings on middle shelf….

Sweet looking setup but you need MORE TUBES!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Sweet looking setup but you need MORE TUBES!

Oh, man! Bob is right. I just looked closely. You definitely need more tubes.

 

[John T]

Hi Gents, JackD201 checking in very very late to the party. At least I made it before post 1000

What Steve said ^

Well I'm going to need a lot of guidance because I am the analog guy in our company. I foresee Keith my other partner being the go to guy for our customers but I am here to learn as best I can.

My ears do still work so having heard the SGM at Steve's it was really a no brainer.

Thank you Emile for welcoming us to the Taiko family. We are looking forward to a long and fruitful relationship with you.

For those that are not familiar my system, it is configured currently as follows

VSA Ultra 11s
CH M10 Monos
CH L10 Pre
CH P1 (P10 soon)
TechDAS Air Force 1
SAT
Graham Elite
Various Carts faves being Koetsu off catalog stone/platinum/diamond cantilevers
CH C1.5
CH D1.5
CH T1 (incoming)
Aurender W20 (outgoing LOL)
NAS
Cables all MasterIBuilt Ultra except phono cables (Odin 2 for Graham, SAT captured)
Racks All CMS Maxxum
CS2 footers except power supplies chassis'

I am currently using ordinary switches as the CH system is controlled by in part by the CH App via ethernet

It will be very interesting integrating the SGM into this system and to our client's systems that use not just CH but also the other DACs we carry such as EERA.

I'm going to need a lot of help LOL

We all need a lot of HELP!

 

[bonzo75]

I think the Extreme (and the Horizon) are striking looking regardless of placement. And confirmed, sound incredible. Taiko switch patiently awaiting his router and power distributor siblings on middle shelf….

The tubes will cause too many reflections

 

[Taiko Audio]

Have you evaluated any sound quality difference between the F connector and a BNC connector?

I did not try BNC, I should add that due to this particular Wi-Fi solution being virtually inaudible already, especially when able to stick to the lowest possible transmission power, might make discerning differences in connectors used near impossible.

 

[Johnny Moondog]

Sweet looking setup but you need MORE TUBES!

Definitely need more ... tubes!

 

[Taiko Audio]

For what it’s worth, Emile suggested i put the Extreme on the bottom shelf or the floor due to rack sway, which isn’t helped by footers and platforms.

My rack is rock solid and doesn’t sway. Weighs well over 500 lbs. Top shelf is where mine will stay. If i were concerned about sway I’d have it on the bottom. But I’m not and I don’t.I also have footers under my Extreme as well.

I do indeed generally recommend using the bottom shelf due to the large variance in racks combined with the relatively high weight of the Extreme and the relatively high sensitivity of digital electronics to vibrational effects. This is a general recommendation as not all racks "suffer" from large variations in vibrational patterns between their shelves.

 

[wil]

WiFi or Cable from Taiko Router to Taiko Switch?

WBF contributer and creator of the Apple TV X (aka Xymox) has posted a recent video on YouTube making the argument that wired Ethernet is much better for audio, as well as video. In it, he shows measurements of much greater jitter and latency on the Wi-Fi signal than through an ethernet cable.

This is something I’ve been curious about for some time and wonder what others think?

 

[oldmustang]

WiFi or Cable from Taiko Router to Taiko Switch?

WBF contributer and creator of the Apple TV X (aka Xymox) has posted a recent video on YouTube making the argument that Wi-Fi is much better for audio, as well as video. In it, he shows measurements of much greater jitter and latency on the Wi-Fi signal than through an ethernet cable.

This is something I’ve been curious about for some time and wonder what others think?

If I understand you correctly, he is showing higher jitter and latency for Wifi compared to wired ethernet, yet claims better sound (and video) quality for Wifi?

I don't doubt he is hearing and seeing what he claims; preferring the sound of the signal with lower signal integrity is hardly unique and is could be explained by the character of the system and the preference of the user.

My take on it, anyway.

Steve Z

 

[wil]

He’s saying the wired Ethernet both measures better and sounds better than the WiFi.

I see I garbled my opening post! Will edit

 

[Armsan]

He’s saying the wired Ethernet both measures better and sounds better than the WiFi.

I see I garbled my opening post! Will edit

I always use wired Ethernet iPAD or Android tablet as, it’s the way it sounds better to my ears in my system.

 

[Kris]

WiFi or Cable from Taiko Router to Taiko Switch?

WBF contributer and creator of the Apple TV X (aka Xymox) has posted a recent video on YouTube making the argument that wired Ethernet is much better for audio, as well as video. In it, he shows measurements of much greater jitter and latency on the Wi-Fi signal than through an ethernet cable.

This is something I’ve been curious about for some time and wonder what others think?

This is what I was also reporting here for a very long time.
in my case ( Emile claims I am different than most , that I like to be a lot, to be honnest)
wifi was always worst than cable.
I had few systems in my room . I did of testing to find why others dont hear a wifi / cable difference.
After few years of testing I failed to get simmilar results with wifi v cable.
Cable was and still is better.

BUT Emile prepared very low power wifi in his Taiko router that will be shipping shortly I hope.
I ordered it immediate as router itself is responsible for a lot of the final SQ effect.
I truly belive with Taiko router I will be able to get wifi on pair / or better / as the cable is.

 

[Kris]

I always use wired Ethernet iPAD or Android tablet as, it’s the way it sounds better to my ears in my system.

Did the same very long ago and untill now nothing was able to deliver a better SQ.
But I cant wait to try Taiko router. That is the only gear that can be much better that a cable I use.

 

[Taiko Audio]

WiFi or Cable from Taiko Router to Taiko Switch?

WBF contributer and creator of the Apple TV X (aka Xymox) has posted a recent video on YouTube making the argument that wired Ethernet is much better for audio, as well as video. In it, he shows measurements of much greater jitter and latency on the Wi-Fi signal than through an ethernet cable.

This is something I’ve been curious about for some time and wonder what others think?

Hi @wil ,

We have come to believe that there will not be a general consensus because of differing sensitivities to different types of noise and/or noise bands an individual may have, and to complicate this further, the sensitivity of their system setup and components to this.

But let me add another perspective to jitter and latency.

The Router power consumption scales as follows:

5.52 watts with no cable connected and no Wi-Fi
5.55 watts with 1 DAC cable connected and no Wi-Fi
5.76 watts with no cable connected and integrated Wi-Fi
5.89 watts with 1 RJ45 cable connected and no Wi-Fi

Moving to in use scenarios:

1) 6.16 watts with integrated Wi-Fi, 1 RJ45 cable connected, 1 DAC cable connected
2) 6.29 watts with no Wi-Fi, 2 RJ45 cables connected, 1 DAC cable connected
3) 6.66 watts with no Wi-Fi, 3 RJ45 cables connected

Now to my ears, in my system, 1-3 corresponds to my ranking for SQ.

 

[Taiko Audio]

BUT Emile prepared very low power wifi in his Taiko router that will be shipping shortly I hope.

Very low power indeed as it now consumes less power then a single RJ45 network port.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

That’s been my experience if there is too much damping. In my setup, one or two brass triple point heavy hats that each weigh 23.8 oz. sounds a bit better, but YMMV. Three seems too many, but I am still experimenting. I was mainly asking if reduced air circulation could be a concern, but with the fan I don’t think it’s a concern.

The processor/chipset heat is diverted to the cooling fin on the side. What remains is very little heat generated by other components such as the power supply and the UBS card. While I would recommend keeping all vents unblocked (and it remains to be seen if damping is needed/desired/beneficial), it should not be a problem to cover a small portion, preferably in the middle of the unit.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

There are floor micro vibrations (which is why vibration isolation is so important) that will be amplified if the object is further away from the ground. It’s just physics.

Sure, that is a valid argument but that is not the only influential factor. And Emile's general "Bottom shelf recommendation" notwithstanding, there are several other factors that come into play. The solidity of a support system is usually indeed one of the more important indicators but depending on the system or user preferences, there can also be "too much" solidity, leading to subjective damping or deadening of the performance. And there can be various other contemplations and circumstances when matching a server or other component to an "ideal" support surface. An Artesania Exoteryc rack, for instance, works in reverse, with its rack-inside-rack system being the most solid and sounding most solid, dynamic, and lively at the top. In general, I am personally careful not to recommend a single best solution and usually advise experimenting with placement.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

With 942 pages I may be too old by that time to ask a question that has probably covered.
If the Extreme is hooked to a good Switch/ Router and an audiophile ethernet cable, can the streaming sound as good as Red Book rips to the server memory. Is it that close now or not. This would also apply if you download a 24/96 to the hard drive. Will it sound better then streaming?

Having performed intensive tests with local versus streaming using Roon and XDMS, I can confirm that streaming sounds very nearly as good as local. The same applies for downloaded files versus streaming those same files. Streaming sounds so good in fact that I have no problems using Qobuz for my reviews and have absolutely no issues with it, neither for enjoyment nor for deep-dive resolution/performance tests. There is a subtle difference, but I can only tell in AB tests. That said, for XDMS, we are working on implementing functionality (currently tested as part of the Alpha release) to reduce or even remove the hurdles thrown up by streaming FLAC. I have also carried out tests with this and the result is that the differences have become so very small that it becomes basically an academic matter.

 

[John T]

I believe their are so many variables in regards to all of our systems. Throw in different internet providers, where your system lives, how the abode was constructed, electrical grid, and the list goes on. Just think about actual floor construction alone, this can widely vary. No one shoe is going to fit all.

 

[wil]

Hi @wil ,

We have come to believe that there will not be a general consensus because of differing sensitivities to different types of noise and/or noise bands an individual may have, and to complicate this further, the sensitivity of their system setup and components to this.

But let me add another perspective to jitter and latency.

The Router power consumption scales as follows:

5.52 watts with no cable connected and no Wi-Fi
5.55 watts with 1 DAC cable connected and no Wi-Fi
5.76 watts with no cable connected and integrated Wi-Fi
5.89 watts with 1 RJ45 cable connected and no Wi-Fi

Moving to in use scenarios:

1) 6.16 watts with integrated Wi-Fi, 1 RJ45 cable connected, 1 DAC cable connected
2) 6.29 watts with no Wi-Fi, 2 RJ45 cables connected, 1 DAC cable connected
3) 6.66 watts with no Wi-Fi, 3 RJ45 cables connected

Now to my ears, in my system, 1-3 corresponds to my ranking for SQ.

Are jitter and latency a result of, or related to, power consumption?