Taiko Audio with 'Evo spec' meets MSB Select II digital + NVS tt

lately I've had a bit of action around my place, with new amplifiers (ML3 and VAC Statements) and Ron Resnick's visit. then last week Ed Hsu of Taiko Audio/SGM spent 3 days (Wednesday, Thursday and Friday) at my home. mostly I was gone to work and Ed was there working.

Ed visited to (1) convert the stock TS-150 and TS-140 Herzan's to the Taiko Tana top plates and remove the internal SMPS's, (2) add one more Taiko Tana Linear power supply, (3) to convert the now -3- Taiko Tana Linear Power supplies to the new 'Evo spec', and (4) introduce the new Daiza Panzerholtz plinths. the top plate conversions, and 'Evo spec' upgrades to the Linear Power Supplies was a big job and took most of the 3 days (when I got home from work we listened to that days work product). Ed also brought a suite of special vibration measuring devices and spent some time with those.

when Ed arrived i had 4 active units; a stock TS-140 sitting on my barn kitchen table unused, a stock TS-150 under the SGM server, a Taiko Tana TS-150 (under the dart pre) and TS-140 (under the NVS tt) each with a Taiko Tana LPS. also i had 3 panzerholtz plinths; one each under the TS-140 and TS-150 and one under one of the LPS's. now I'm using 4 active units; all fully Taiko Tana top plated, with 3 now 'Evo spec' LPS units (i switch one when i go from digital to vinyl until the 4th LPS arrives). sorry for all the detail and realize you might need to read it a couple times and look at the pictures to digest it. short answer is that now all my front end electronics and tt except the 2 power supplies of the MSB Select II are on SOTA active devices.

Evo Spec had been developed about 2 months ago with significantly better anti-vibration sonic performance on analog and digital electronics, but how would it perform for the Tana under a NVS turntable?

Wednesday night when i got home, two of the LPS's had been converted to 'Evo spec'. we connected both of those to the already Taiko Tana'd top plated TS-140 and TS-150 and listened to vinyl. i want to be objective here and just say there was a solid noticeable improvement in the performance. specifically more focus, cleaner, noticeably greater dynamic contrasts, more expressive, and greater tonal richness. interestingly since the dynamics were increased it was louder and more lively. i saw higher peak wattage for the same volume points (less smearing...rounding off peaks). i also noticed that on musical peaks things were all the way sorted out and it changed my reference for how some familiar pressings can sound. i used the same recordings i had used with Ron Resnick; specifically the Classic 45 4-disc of Mussorgsky's Pictures, disc 4 'Great Gates', and the Classic 45 disc 2 of Scheherazade. there were others, but these were enough to confirm the step up. these areas of performance were already at reference levels, so to get any improvements was impressive. we listened to a number of vocals, Jazz (Mallitoba Spank), and some rock. but more than the objective areas of clear improvement was the increase in calmness, ease and refinement which translated into a very beguiling and compelling musical experience.

Thursday night when i got home Ed had converted the stock TS-150 to full Taiko Tana top plate, and the 'Evo Spec' to the 3rd LPS. so now we inserted the Taiko Tana top plated TS-150 under the MSB dac box and then listened to this with dart pre also with Taiko Tana + Evo spec LPS. now this was a huge step up, since this was the first time i had had active under the MSB dac of any kind. wow. Ed had told me that dac's showed the biggest result from Taiko Tana treatment and he was right. we both listened to our reference tracks, and there was so much more space and rendering of delicate detail that it was spooky. I'm going to stop there and come back later to this subject.

Friday night when i got home Ed had completed the TS-140 top plate and so we did add that to the mix under the SGM server (needing to switch the third LPS unit from the tt to the SGM) and there was a further boost. and there is lots more details i will get into further in future posts.

on Sunday i did ask Jazdoc to visit just to give me some feedback. i won't speak for him at all.

16 years ago, in 2002, i first heard a Halyconics active device in my room. i had the passive air suspended Rockport Sirius III for 9 years from 2002-2011. then in 2013 i bought my 2 Herzan units. lots of promise from those products.

that promise is now delivered.

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Comments

GMKF

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Aug 15, 2017
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the dart 458's have an internal suspension system for their transformers. they hang on springs, and when you ship the amps you have to insert transport screws to hold them in place. once I forgot to remove them and had this mid bass resonance I could not figure out until I removed those screws.

yet the active, optimally executed by Taiko with the Tana + Daiza, really took things to another level. as you say there is good passive.....even designed in passive.....and then there is really great active.
Have you ever experimented with putting your Tana under the Tripoint grounding block ?
 
Sep 17, 2015
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Hi Mike,

It’s made our weekend to hear you have been getting great results with the Tana, Evo LPS and Daiza combination under the Dart’s !

I would just like to add a few data points on our journey to this point for forum friends

About a year ago we tried a TS-140 with the 10+10 PZH and Alu top plate but powered with the stock internal SMPS underneath a highly regarded Danish pure Class A SS power amp. There was an audible improvement at the level of a good set of speaker cables, so in our opinion not a big uplift for the cost involved

During our development of the PZH housed power supply, and then the Evo Spec successor, we never tried a SS power amp on top again until 2 weeks ago.

With a Daiza sitting under a extremely well built and designed Japanese SS power amplifier where even the bolts have special torque settings, we were absolutely bowled over by the difference the Daiza made to the sonic presentation. A big drop in the noise floor, sonic confusion dissipated, clarity and body enhanced

Our takeaway from this and Mike’s observations is, the better the vibration management and chassis construction of the power amp, the more you will hear a big uplift in SQ from active and passive vibration control done well.

Mike showed us the way, and his gut feel turns out be be sonically stunningly on the right track to recreating the live event !
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
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Ah. I was talking about putting the Tripoint Box ontop of a Tana.
I just realized that and was going to delete my post and re-answer. too many balls in the air.:D

as far as adding a Tana unit to the Tripoint......it's not likely to ever happen. now that I've taken the Tana units from my tt and server to place under the amps, I now have to spend more money to replace at least the one on the tt. that likely will have to wait a while, and then it's (way past the) time to stop the madness of system tweaking.

maybe someone else can try that......I have 4 of these Tana units now; and from what I understand there are very few others who have one of them......so far. and likely i'll end up with 5. for amps and sources.

I have zero doubt about a Tana helping a Tripoint.
 

GMKF

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I just realized that and was going to delete my post and re-answer. too many balls in the air.:D

as far as adding a Tana unit to the Tripoint......it's not likely to ever happen. now that I've taken the Tana units from my tt and server to place under the amps, I now have to spend more money to replace at least the one on the tt. that likely will have to wait a while, and then it's (way past the) time to stop the madness of system tweaking.

maybe someone else can try that......I have 4 of these Tana units now; and from what I understand there are very few others who have one of them......so far. and likely i'll end up with 5. for amps and sources.

I have zero doubt about a Tana helping a Tripoint.
Thanks Mike.
I'm wondering about residual "mechanical" noise levels of components.
I would have thought that the Tripoint-box has a relatively high residual vibration level. (see image below)
I have the feeling that when you get the AS-2000 the Taiko would be more beneficial to your system's sound under the Tripoint rather than the TT.
 
Sep 17, 2015
301
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Monaco
On the East Coast Daiza + Tana Evo raise the bar for Bill

A good customer of Taiko Audio / Sound Gallerieshas just sent us his report. Evolution Acoustics MM 2’s are delivering the sound

Hi Guys

Well you have managed to do it again in applying Acoustical and Materials Science to real world products that improve the sound of audio systems.

I received my Daiza platforms a couple of weeks ago after, to my surprise, they were delayed by an FDA and US Dept.of Agriculture inspection. I thought that was unusual since they are neither drugs or plants, but Emile informed me that XRays won't pass through Tank wood.

I immediately installed the smaller platform and rubber sheet on top of the top plate on my Taiko Audio Stable Table. It was a perfect fit, and the finishing of the panzerholz seemed to be much improved over the existing top plate. Additionally I installed Emile's special copper and panzerholz feet under my Lampizator Golden Gate Dac to provide the interface to the Daiza platform.

When I first played some music my first impression was a dramatic lowering of the noise floor. This created a black background that enabled me to hear much more of the recording.
The speakers seemed to disappear and a true stage was constructed across and behind the big boxes. Instruments and voices seemed to have their own spaces on this newly constructed stage with three dimensionality and texture to the sound. The flat plane now had depth and expanse.
The artists seemed to jump out of the speaker boxes and presented the illusion that they were in the room with me. This is what can be accomplished with a dramatically lower noise floor

The next weekend I transported the second larger Daiza to my vacation home to try it in my other system under my Audio Silente turntable. I slipped the copper and panzerholz feet into the cut outs on the bottom of the Daiza and placed it on the Symposium Ultra platform sitting on the top shelf of my Zoethecus rack.

As soon as a dropped the stylus in the groove I immediately I heard the same effects as a did when used with the Dac in my other home. In fact I thought the effect seemed to be greater. Vocals leaped out to center stage while the midrange seemed to be louder. All this occurred without and negative effects on the rest of SQ. Tonality and dimensionality was much improved.
I believe since turntables are a mechanical device the platform is more effective in dampening resonances in this application.

The following week I lent the larger daiza to a close audio friend of mine to try under his Memory Player. His description of the improvement in SQ in his system echoed almost exactly what I described above, without and prior specific comments from me.

I believe these Daiza Platforms took both my systems closer to what I seek in an Audio System I.e. to re-create a live event.


Congratulations
Bill
24CCEF74-AF74-45D5-8364-DCDECB6F2E49.jpeg

4B31215F-8C64-4A65-A663-9E5DFC19FA42.jpeg
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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tonight I've been listening to some (mostly jazz) redbook files I got a few months back from jazdoc (who stays current in his musical acquisitions). these are an assortment of relatively recent jazz recordings and i'm sitting here memorized by the degrees of additional musical connection i'm getting now since moving the Taiko Tana to the dart monos. a month or so ago I spent quite a bit of enjoyable time with these files. but this now is something 'more'. a lot more.

the music has become much less seemingly reproduced, much more forward and holographic. more dimensional and lively. the energy glows and sparkles. there is a bit of the magical ML3 sort of envelopment and bass heft and flow (with the dart monos). the music itself is not pretentious or stuffy......it's raw and real. nothing audiophile or predictable here. thoughts of digital, analog, vinyl or tape are just not relevant as i'm listening. it's just music.
 

Tango

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Thanks Mike.
I'm wondering about residual "mechanical" noise levels of components.
I would have thought that the Tripoint-box has a relatively high residual vibration level. (see image below)
I have the feeling that when you get the AS-2000 the Taiko would be more beneficial to your system's sound under the Tripoint rather than the TT.
Mr. Lavigne is already using HP Trinia’s under his Tripoint successfully in his system. I tried them too under my Elite and initially was spooked by how ghostly Dean Martin could make my wife jumped off her chair. I even wrote to tell Mike about it. Then I kept on listening more and more, I found them took away all my system liquidity. The aliveness, energetic up front presentation of my system was replaced by a meter pushed back presentation with ghostly very well textured dimensional dry sound. So it was like I threw all my tube magic away. What I am saying is antivibe doesn’t work at advantage in all systems. Jazzhead also brought Bonzo’s Mooks for me to try. I placed them under the Elite again. Pretty much the same thing happened but at much lesser degree than Trinia’s.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

GMKF

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Aug 15, 2017
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Mr. Lavigne is already using HP Trinia’s under his Tripoint successfully in his system. I tried them too under my Elite and initially was spooked by how ghostly Dean Martin could make my wife jumped off her chair. I even wrote to tell Mike about it. Then I kept on listening more and more, I found them took away all my system liquidity. The aliveness, energetic up front presentation of my system was replaced by a meter pushed back presentation with ghostly very well textured dimensional dry sound. So it was like I threw all my tube magic away. What I am saying is antivibe doesn’t work at advantage in all systems. Jazzhead also brought Bonzo’s Mooks for me to try. I placed them under the Elite again. Pretty much the same thing happened but at much lesser degree than Trinia’s.

Kind regards,
Tang
Interesting. I also like the appeal of a "ghostly very well textured dimensional dry sound".
Cure the lack of energy with a cracking SS amp and I'll be happy ;)
I get it that such type of sound is something you do not fancy.

Warning: personal opinion
In my opinion your system should compliment your music taste.
If you build an "all out system" it should do everything well but in my kind of price range you "should" try to tailor the system a bit, to make you happy.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Mr. Lavigne is already using HP Trinia’s under his Tripoint successfully in his system. I tried them too under my Elite and initially was spooked by how ghostly Dean Martin could make my wife jumped off her chair. I even wrote to tell Mike about it. Then I kept on listening more and more, I found them took away all my system liquidity. The aliveness, energetic up front presentation of my system was replaced by a meter pushed back presentation with ghostly very well textured dimensional dry sound. So it was like I threw all my tube magic away. What I am saying is antivibe doesn’t work at advantage in all systems. Jazzhead also brought Bonzo’s Mooks for me to try. I placed them under the Elite again. Pretty much the same thing happened but at much lesser degree than Trinia’s.

Kind regards,
Tang
Sorry but mooks were meant to be tried under active components. Let's see what happens when I reach you and place them properly. In the meantime, jazz head has added 4 sets to his system
 

Tango

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Sorry but mooks were meant to be tried under active components. Let's see what happens when I reach you and place them properly. In the meantime, jazz head has added 4 sets to his system
I am thinking of using your Mooks for smoking bbq spareribs.

Tang ;)
 
Jun 3, 2018
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1
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Hello Mike,

I have realized, that highend-amps sound different depending on the position in the room. Sometimes not only a bit. Because everything else is equal, the only explanation for me is a general sensivity of equipment for vibrations. Every point in your room has different (bass) modes (frequency and strength). So I believe depending on individual dimensions, weight and other factors the machine vibrates at different frequencies. Which causes microphonic effects in different range at the sensible electronics you use.

I could tune my former amp with the position which was the best. So I am not really surprised by your discovery. If you can avoid this vibrations with your Tanas, a lot of disturbance is gone and the music plays more clean. I believe that is what you find out.

So congratulations with your new Tana toy and the benefit it brings!

With my new NHB-458 I am also on the way the check out where I will position them and if I use a platform or put them directly on the floor. Only they are so damned heavy. Up to now I preferred to leave the amps pure on the floor. I had the feeling they play faster and more directly. With amp stand more relaxed. So once I have "digest" the darTZeel purchase, maybe I will follow your advice with the Tanas.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,708
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Hello Mike,

I have realized, that highend-amps sound different depending on the position in the room. Sometimes not only a bit. Because everything else is equal, the only explanation for me is a general sensivity of equipment for vibrations. Every point in your room has different (bass) modes (frequency and strength). So I believe depending on individual dimensions, weight and other factors the machine vibrates at different frequencies. Which causes microphonic effects in different range at the sensible electronics you use.

I could tune my former amp with the position which was the best. So I am not really surprised by your discovery. If you can avoid this vibrations with your Tanas, a lot of disturbance is gone and the music plays more clean. I believe that is what you find out.

So congratulations with your new Tana toy and the benefit it brings!

With my new NHB-458 I am also on the way the check out where I will position them and if I use a platform or put them directly on the floor. Only they are so damned heavy. Up to now I preferred to leave the amps pure on the floor. I had the feeling they play faster and more directly. With amp stand more relaxed. So once I have "digest" the darTZeel purchase, maybe I will follow your advice with the Tanas.
redandgold (nice moniker btw),

congrats on your new NHB-458's. they are my favorite amplifier.

I think when you have such a clear window to the music as the 458's, that allows so much musical message to come through, it reveals as significant every small step forward. so a device such as the Tana gives the most possible benefit. would every amplifier receive the same degree of boost from the Tana? or would every system allow for the same benefit...or more? I cannot say.

and I've not done that 'in-between' step of placing my 458's on the floor.....compared to those Box Furniture stands. so I cannot help with knowing that delta of difference. however; I do know how that sort of change worked for other gear as I used the Tana elsewhere so I have a feel for it.

I will look forward to hearing about your 'Tana-458' experience when it happens.

best regards,

Mike
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
11,696
1,486
113
London
Hello Mike,

I have realized, that highend-amps sound different depending on the position in the room. Sometimes not only a bit. Because everything else is equal, the only explanation for me is a general sensivity of equipment for vibrations. Every point in your room has different (bass) modes (frequency and strength). So I believe depending on individual dimensions, weight and other factors the machine vibrates at different frequencies. Which causes microphonic effects in different range at the sensible electronics you use.

I could tune my former amp with the position which was the best. So I am not really surprised by your discovery. If you can avoid this vibrations with your Tanas, a lot of disturbance is gone and the music plays more clean. I believe that is what you find out.

So congratulations with your new Tana toy and the benefit it brings!

With my new NHB-458 I am also on the way the check out where I will position them and if I use a platform or put them directly on the floor. Only they are so damned heavy. Up to now I preferred to leave the amps pure on the floor. I had the feeling they play faster and more directly. With amp stand more relaxed. So once I have "digest" the darTZeel purchase, maybe I will follow your advice with the Tanas.
Hi, what speakers are you driving with these amps? And are you also using the Dartzeel pre/phono? If so, what's the rest of the analog set up? Thanks
 
Jun 3, 2018
42
1
8
redandgold (nice moniker btw),

congrats on your new NHB-458's. they are my favorite amplifier.

I think when you have such a clear window to the music as the 458's, that allows so much musical message to come through, it reveals as significant every small step forward. so a device such as the Tana gives the most possible benefit. would every amplifier receive the same degree of boost from the Tana? or would every system allow for the same benefit...or more? I cannot say.

and I've not done that 'in-between' step of placing my 458's on the floor.....compared to those Box Furniture stands. so I cannot help with knowing that delta of difference. however; I do know how that sort of change worked for other gear as I used the Tana elsewhere so I have a feel for it.

I will look forward to hearing about your 'Tana-458' experience when it happens.

best regards,

Mike
Hi Mike,

I believe the general effects of vibration control are the same with different levels of audio gear and set up. But with more effort to set up your room and more sensible equipment you hear easier the effects. Before I owned a pair of McIntosh MC 1,2 kW (I loved the sound, best of between tube and ss) and even there differences were easy detectable. Contrary point of view: The better everything is running, the easier you can mess up the sound with small issues.

I have not yet decided if I first go the passive way or not. The comparison of different amp stands or racks is not easy. It takes a lot of time to unplug the cables, remove the equipment, then the racks, build the new rack and install everything again. In the meantime the machines are cold. Hard to say what causes the different sound after this time. Maybe that is the reason you find nowhere a review comparison of different amp stand/rack systems. Have you ever seen one? Me not.

Additional unplugging the signal cables of your darTZeel is always a risk (breaker blow). I admire you to exchange and test so often your valuable NHB-458s.

redandgold
 
Jun 3, 2018
42
1
8
Hi, what speakers are you driving with these amps? And are you also using the Dartzeel pre/phono? If so, what's the rest of the analog set up? Thanks
Hi Bonzo75,

with my precious amps I drive a pair of WA Alexia. This combination suits in my opinion. My darTZeels have to work more hardly than the Evolutions of Mike. The Alexia impedance is really bad to amps, but the darTZeel are powerful enough.

Sorry, up to now I had not the time to say hello in your self introduction part. I will do this a soon as possible... O.K.? :)

redandgold
 

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