What great detective work. Very nice that Ed was able to solve the problem. Ed's credo must be the same as the US Navy Seebees unofficial motto:
The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little longer.
Well done, Ed!
Steve Z
Taiko Audio XDMS - Extreme Direct Music Server Software
- Thread starter Christiaan Punter
- Start date
The difficult we do right now, the impossible takes a little longer.
Well done, Ed!
Steve Z
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
The progress at Taiko continues and its far from over as we are now on NSM gapless player 2.3.13 +1 . I have found in my system the gapless to work almost flawlessly although I was reading many alpha testers were hearing some pops and screeching with DSD 512 and DSD256. I have played the past 2 days playlists all of which are native DSD.512 yesterday I wondered if I briefly heard some screeching but it was so brief that I couldn't be certain. I have heard no pops. Today Ed installed some new back end patch which improved DSD handling. and I only listed to DSD today. Sonically DSD sounded fine as I honestly heard no screeching or pops in the DSD512 files I played. There were several issues however that are yet to be ironed out.
1. I was playing native DSD512 but the miniplayer was showing only DSD64
2. Of all the DSD 512 files I played all but one played from start to finish.I found the miniplayer would hiccup around 4'45" or sooner and skip to the next track....which BTW was almost gapless
. It seemed that the end of each track had 3 seconds of silence during which the next track loaded and played . I noticed this on all of the DSD tracks I played....for example if the song duration was 2'45",the last 3 seconds were always silent so I wonder if this helps the gapless issue.
3. I found that the dancing bars often lagged behind the file which was playing
4.On one occasion after deleting one playlist from queue and then adding a 2nd DSD512 playlist, none of the songs would play. I had to restart XDMS to no avail and then a Resart of the Extreme solved the problem and the files played but again none played start to finish except for one file of 3'36"
The best fix I found to play the DSD file was to push stop which halts the dancing bars and then push stop again which makes the dancing bars go away. Having done that pressing the play button in the queue of the track I want always rights the ship.
My biggest challenge today was to listen for aberrant sounds and I heard none. It was an annoyance that almost always it was the shorter files which played but the files of 7+ minutes always skipped midway through to the next rack
Is it just me as it has been a while since Ive done. detailed listen with DSD files but I wondered if the sound was a little brighter than normal at the opened.I could not convince myself of this with all files
1. I was playing native DSD512 but the miniplayer was showing only DSD64
2. Of all the DSD 512 files I played all but one played from start to finish.I found the miniplayer would hiccup around 4'45" or sooner and skip to the next track....which BTW was almost gapless
. It seemed that the end of each track had 3 seconds of silence during which the next track loaded and played . I noticed this on all of the DSD tracks I played....for example if the song duration was 2'45",the last 3 seconds were always silent so I wonder if this helps the gapless issue. 3. I found that the dancing bars often lagged behind the file which was playing
4.On one occasion after deleting one playlist from queue and then adding a 2nd DSD512 playlist, none of the songs would play. I had to restart XDMS to no avail and then a Resart of the Extreme solved the problem and the files played but again none played start to finish except for one file of 3'36"
The best fix I found to play the DSD file was to push stop which halts the dancing bars and then push stop again which makes the dancing bars go away. Having done that pressing the play button in the queue of the track I want always rights the ship.
My biggest challenge today was to listen for aberrant sounds and I heard none. It was an annoyance that almost always it was the shorter files which played but the files of 7+ minutes always skipped midway through to the next rack
Is it just me as it has been a while since Ive done. detailed listen with DSD files but I wondered if the sound was a little brighter than normal at the opened.I could not convince myself of this with all files
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
For those who read this Taiko forum but don't participate on the Alpha users Discord app, I wanted to share some additional information I learned from Ed yesterday that is very impactful. When the gapless NSM player was released we were told to use ASIO X1 (Lampi owners). As this evolved members can to find there were issues with the gapless player and DSD. Some members found they heard screeching and pops whereas other members found they couldn't play DSD at all. Then came the drag and drop version last week that ws supposed to help with DSD.
Ed spent some time a few days ago in the bowels of my Extreme playing DSD512 def files. We found the following and this has become Ed's recommendation...
1. For the short term we are to use X1 for PCM files and X0 for DSD files. Ed found that shorter DSD files play from start to finish without skipping to the next track but long files (2.5 Gb) simply did not play. The good news is that Wilson is working on a patch for lengthy DSD files to play from start to finish.
My only thoughts about this is that it is temporary for now which is good news as I found to my ears in my system ASIO X0 does not sound as good as ASIO X1 . My hope is that not only will this patch prove effective but hopefully we can again use X1 as it sounds so much better in my system
Ed spent some time a few days ago in the bowels of my Extreme playing DSD512 def files. We found the following and this has become Ed's recommendation...
1. For the short term we are to use X1 for PCM files and X0 for DSD files. Ed found that shorter DSD files play from start to finish without skipping to the next track but long files (2.5 Gb) simply did not play. The good news is that Wilson is working on a patch for lengthy DSD files to play from start to finish.
My only thoughts about this is that it is temporary for now which is good news as I found to my ears in my system ASIO X0 does not sound as good as ASIO X1 . My hope is that not only will this patch prove effective but hopefully we can again use X1 as it sounds so much better in my system
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I was talking Horizon....according to Ed X1 is desired. It sounds the best in my system
I am using the Horizon too and X0 still sounds best for me. But people can use X1 too.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I haven't listened to my Horizon with PCM files and X0 but I did with DSD ties and there is a mild loss of SQ IMHO
Fwiw, thought I'd share that finally had the chance to hunker down this past weekend, having the house to myself, to finally drill down into the power distributor filter options (all had been thoroughly broken in) as well as the xdms sound profile (alt vs default) and xdms driver options. Also reconfirmed rolling of around 20 tubes w/ the Horizon.
It was an enjoyable process and feel at peace with a combo that works best in my system (w options currently available) and a complementary tube set.
Using the order Emile recommended, I started by experimenting with filter combinations of the power distributor. For me, the changes were not huge (less than changing a pair of triodes in the Horizon, for example) but settled on default/default for both switch and router. In the end, I wasn't searching for specific sound characteristics, but I felt the def/def combo was the most engaging, tonally balanced and transparent.
On current version of sound profile in xdms (alt vs default), again not a huge difference but default prevailed again. Finally, I continue to prefer X1. Again, for engagement, transparency and, specifically, the gorgeously impactful and layered bass.
Can finally sleep peacefully knowing I have squeezed out, at least for the moment, the best sound parameters I can get here. Very pleased, content and excited for what is to come. Thank you Taiko team!
It was an enjoyable process and feel at peace with a combo that works best in my system (w options currently available) and a complementary tube set.
Using the order Emile recommended, I started by experimenting with filter combinations of the power distributor. For me, the changes were not huge (less than changing a pair of triodes in the Horizon, for example) but settled on default/default for both switch and router. In the end, I wasn't searching for specific sound characteristics, but I felt the def/def combo was the most engaging, tonally balanced and transparent.
On current version of sound profile in xdms (alt vs default), again not a huge difference but default prevailed again. Finally, I continue to prefer X1. Again, for engagement, transparency and, specifically, the gorgeously impactful and layered bass.
Can finally sleep peacefully knowing I have squeezed out, at least for the moment, the best sound parameters I can get here. Very pleased, content and excited for what is to come. Thank you Taiko team!
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As a new XDMS user, what is the current policy with regard Roon updates? A new update 2.0, build 1359 is awaiting relaunch to install but I have ignored it so far. Restarting Extreme launches XDMS. Roon usually does the same thing, so I’m guessing that applying a Roon update may well cause a conflict here without some tweaking somehow.
Edit - ok, I found the process defined by Christiaan on a different thread. Please ignore.
Edit - ok, I found the process defined by Christiaan on a different thread. Please ignore.
Please go ahead and perform the update. Although we're still working on improving the robustness of the Roon/XDMS interaction, we have seen no more reports of users where a Roon update caused problems. Naturally, if you do encounter an issue, just contact us via support@taikoaudio.com, and we'll get it sorted.
I just do them as they show up. The one we had all the problems with awhile back was an anomaly. I still get a little anxious when I see the notices! My freak out is a lot less now. You're asking for more problems by not doing the updates...
The Roon updates have not been problematic lately, and we recommend performing them when available. Moreover, updates are actually more prone to fail when you skip builds. And the more builds you skip, the larger the chance of an update failure. If you keep Roon up to date, the chance of an upgrade failure is very small.
On a related note, we are working on implementing a change in XDMS that will altogether avoid the potential for conflict issues to occur as a result of updates. As always, we need to tread carefully to avoid impacting the SQ, meaning that the process may appear slow, but we will most definitely get there.
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In my experience, Roon is more responsive to play titles, shows the resolution of the different files in a search, shows lyrics when available, and overall has a better interface, but I don't use it, I use only XDMS becaure everytime I compare, XDMS sounds much better than Roon in my system.
The path for XDMS going forward
Today, Edward @EuroDriver visited us in the office in Oldenzaal and we just had our XDMS workshop, in which we discussed the best approach to move ahead with our software projects.
Since the inception of our own server/player software - first with TAS, and currently with XDMS - Sound Quality has been at the center of what has been done. Countless lines of code have been discarded, because they were affecting Sound Quality in a negative way. Our strong focus on this has resulted in some functionality been either left out or being a bit cumbersome to use. However, this resulted in the sonically superior Music Player that XDMS is today. By sound testing every major iteration along the way, we have formed a deep understanding of what really is responsible for sound quality influences.
Today we have determined the next steps for the project:
- We are launching a User Experience initiative, where we will focus on the primary usability issues that are currently present. This will lead to a fully stable version for our user group.
- The lessons learned from the Olympus project will have a direct influence in this. We discovered, that certain decisions we took for sound quality reasons in the past, can be done differently. It were those "band aids" that were responsible for most of the user experience glitches.
- XDMS will remain software that is exclusive to the Extreme Server (and also exclusive to the Alpha Test Group) until it reaches maturity. We cannot give an ETA for the final release at this point.
- This means XDMS will not be available for the Olympus when it is released. Please remember that Roon on Olympus is vastly superior to XDMS on the Extreme. We will bring XDMS to the Olympus platform eventually.
We are confident this will bring XDMS to a level where usability is matched by its Sound Quality.
Today, Edward @EuroDriver visited us in the office in Oldenzaal and we just had our XDMS workshop, in which we discussed the best approach to move ahead with our software projects.
Since the inception of our own server/player software - first with TAS, and currently with XDMS - Sound Quality has been at the center of what has been done. Countless lines of code have been discarded, because they were affecting Sound Quality in a negative way. Our strong focus on this has resulted in some functionality been either left out or being a bit cumbersome to use. However, this resulted in the sonically superior Music Player that XDMS is today. By sound testing every major iteration along the way, we have formed a deep understanding of what really is responsible for sound quality influences.
Today we have determined the next steps for the project:
- We are launching a User Experience initiative, where we will focus on the primary usability issues that are currently present. This will lead to a fully stable version for our user group.
- The lessons learned from the Olympus project will have a direct influence in this. We discovered, that certain decisions we took for sound quality reasons in the past, can be done differently. It were those "band aids" that were responsible for most of the user experience glitches.
- XDMS will remain software that is exclusive to the Extreme Server (and also exclusive to the Alpha Test Group) until it reaches maturity. We cannot give an ETA for the final release at this point.
- This means XDMS will not be available for the Olympus when it is released. Please remember that Roon on Olympus is vastly superior to XDMS on the Extreme. We will bring XDMS to the Olympus platform eventually.
We are confident this will bring XDMS to a level where usability is matched by its Sound Quality.
Thanks for the update.
I vote for putting all the necessary Taiko resources on finishing XDMS first, before taking on other projects. It’s been a long time, and I’m disappointed to read that it’s still very much in “alpha”, with no date commitment for completion.
I vote for putting all the necessary Taiko resources on finishing XDMS first, before taking on other projects. It’s been a long time, and I’m disappointed to read that it’s still very much in “alpha”, with no date commitment for completion.
We are aware of that and today was meant to re-adjust our focus. The measures taken are moving us in the right direction, I am confident.
I haven't been well lately and only cranked up my music twice in the last 2 months.
But both times that I did listen, I was amazed at how marvelous the Taiko-XDMS sound has continued to improve and satisfy.
You all are amazing and I really appreciate your efforts in providing the best possible sound quality known to man. (at least, this man)
Fred
But both times that I did listen, I was amazed at how marvelous the Taiko-XDMS sound has continued to improve and satisfy.
You all are amazing and I really appreciate your efforts in providing the best possible sound quality known to man. (at least, this man)
Fred
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
You hit the nail on the head. It’s all about SQ to me and all one has to go to confirm how great XDMS is, is to queue up a few songs and listen it doesn’t bother me in the least as it does others that it is still in alpha. Listening will tell you that patience is a virtue and XDMS will become a finished product. For now it satisfies my lust for the best SQ
res ipsa Ioquitur
res ipsa loquitur: What other Audio site can throw out some Latin? Cool! The circumstances surrounding the case makes it obvious that negligence occurred. Don't quite get it? Nosce Te Ipsum...Edit: I do get it now "the thing speaks for itself" Another meaning...
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
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