Taralabs grandmaster evolution: new top of the line cables from Taralabs

[microstrip]

Micro, I am becoming bemused by your habit of posting as voice of authority and positioning your opinion as facts.

How is it common knowledge that objective and subjective test results of cable can never correlate? It has never been attempted.

Your previous post about certain specifications not being relevant "since 1999" is another opinion masquerading as a fact.

Again, I am NOT saying that cable measurements and subjective listening can yield specific results, I AM saying we DON"T KNOW if they can.

As far as Kimber Select..I could not tell you why the copper and silver cables sound so different. Is the only difference conductor metallurgy?
Also were comparisons done with the identical lengths and connectors? I like Kimber silver cables a lot. No gimmicks. Just superb quality
conductors and good construction. And of course the WBT connectors.

Andre,

I have several times explained that ALL my posts in this forum about audio trivialities are just IMHO and IMMV.
If you have any FACTS going against my thoughts, please post them - I will be very happy to learn from you. My reference about R,L,C was the excellent simulations presented by Amir and Don50 in WBF and a few comments from Gary Koh. The "1999" was supoosed to be humorous, sorry.

The Sellect comparisons were carried with 8 feet lengths.

And I also really appreciate Audiocrack subjective comments.

 

[puroagave]

Hi Alexandre,

I appreciate your feedback and advice. I will say without quoting exact words that when I threatened to report the matter to the manufacturer (Kimber) it was made clear to me that the Distributor had "extensive" connections in the industry and that I would have a lot of difficulty dealing with any other businesses in future if I went ahead, so I decided to cave in, cut my losses, and walk away. But I vowed never to buy a Kimber product ever again, nor any other products the Distributor represented.

i have a feeling we're not getting the whole story (no affiliation with Ray Kimber). why would a distributor threaten to blacklist a customer over a complaint he wouldnt take back several meters of unterminated wire

 

[TBone]

why would a distributor threaten to blacklist a customer over a complaint he wouldnt take back several meters of unterminated wire

Well, in my urban "audiophile" area, I've heard plenty of these sort of stories over the years ... so ...

 

[TBone]

Amazing review

Define "amazing"!

 

[Bodhi]

i have a feeling we're not getting the whole story (no affiliation with Ray Kimber). why would a distributor threaten to blacklist a customer over a complaint he wouldnt take back several meters of unterminated wire

To fulfill what you are requesting would require me to post in full, all email transcripts to and from the distributor over the whole episode which would a/ potentially expose me to a defamation suit and b/ needlessly derail this thread. Judge me as you will.

 

[TBone]

To fulfill what you are requesting would require me to post in full, all email transcripts to and from the distributor over the whole episode which would a/ potentially expose me to a defamation suit and b/ needlessly derail this thread. Judge me as you will.

Nah, no judging here ... these sort of things happen, and far too often they escalate and the intent gets exaggerated/twisted. I met Ray once, nothing but respectful ... and I still use Kimber in some applications. And some distribution companies represent another communication-quagmire altogether ...

 

[BruceD]

Honestly Bodhi, I am not defending anybody.

I can't imagine, under any circumstances being threatened by a distributor and no taking action. Sorry.

I've just endured a similar circumstance with an Australian Distributor--I advertised a product I purchased while I was working Overseas and as it was not quite the sound I was completely happy with I decided

to sell it privately for a fair price being virtually new when I returned to Oz--this Agent saw my Listing and issued a "veiled Threat" outlining his annoyance at my advertisement in an Email to me

and advising of the consequences should I sell locally.

Needless to say I did have two genuine enquiries-but they were frightened off.

Caveat Emperor

BruceD

 

[Bodhi]

Thanks to those who wrote supportive comments. It's nice to feel you're not the only one out there who has been treated shoddily by a Dealer or Distributor.

 

[Mordecai]

Really? A few years ago I ordered several meters of unterminated Kimber cable from the Australian Distributor. A short time later I decided to go in a different direction, and contacted the Distributor to advise I wished to return the untouched cable for a refund (less shipping and re-stocking fees). The Distributor flatly refused. After numerous emails, I even proposed a part-refund. No response. In several follow up emails I proposed even lower part-refunds so I could cut my losses. Again, no response. I then returned the cables to the Distributor anyway hoping that he would take them back and offer some kind of refund. Again, no response. In the end, I had to humiliatingly request the cables be sent back to me so I could sell them on Ebay, to which I received an immediate response advising they were "on their way". That was the worst experience I have had dealing with any business or brand in my 25 years in this hobby. I have never before come across a nastier piece of work as that Distributor, and vowed I would never buy another Kimber product. Yeah, real ethical...

So you expected a refund for a change of mind? Since when is that appropriate?

Cable off the roll is something that once cut, is technically used. Even if it's not terminated, there is absolutely no way of knowing whether it's been used or not. You may have terminated, then cut a few mm off each end and claimed it was new. Not saying you did this, but it's possible the scenario could come up. And being off the roll, your cut cable may not be appropriate for future order lengths for many months/years depending on what it was.

It's one thing to return a can of Coke to a shop that they can put back on the shelf and sell as new, but what if you ordered a coffee and then once it was served, demanded a refund? And when it wasn't granted, blamed the coffee bean roaster? If Kimber or any other audio company granted refunds for change of mind, how long do you think the audio industry would survive for?

 

[asiufy]

i have a feeling we're not getting the whole story (no affiliation with Ray Kimber). why would a distributor threaten to blacklist a customer over a complaint he wouldnt take back several meters of unterminated wire

It's simple: because said distributor could really be crook.
Our local Magico dealer did much worse. He commited an actual crime, using a customer's name (and faking his signature) to obtain a loan from a bank.

C'mon, it's much easier for the local dealer to be crooked than Kimber, a company who's been in business for many, many years, with reputable products and business ethics.


alexandre

 

[Mordecai]

Oh so the distributor is now a criminal because he wouldn't refund in the case of a change of mind, and then due of the reaction of the customer, didn't want to sell him anything (most likely as he was worried the same issue would happen again)?

Wow.

 

[Audiocrack]

As I am out of the country I have very restricted access to wifi. I will answer all questions and private messages as soon as I am back. Thanks to those members who are interested in the topic of this thread, the Taralabs grandmaster evolution cables.

 

[Steve williams]

Posts deleted

I am going to suggest to Bodhi that if you have a legal issue here and are defaming Kimber, I am going to tell you to take this off line and not to discuss it here

 

[Champ04]

Yes, let's have fun.

Point 2: Ray hires graduates from the Univ. of Utah School of Engineering, one of the better schools in the nation, to work for Kimber. As Ray describes it, the university is a ready made source of talent for him.

Point 4 direct from the website:

Within the audio-video industry, there is no engineer with a more complete understanding of the scientific tenets critical to signal isolation and current delivery. These unique work related experiences at the highest levels of government and computer science led Caelin Gabriel to develop a series of fundamental precepts for the patented technologies and custom-designed parts that form the cornerstone of Shunyata Research products.

Couple observations....
RE: "Point 2"
Last I checked, University of Utah Engineering was ranked #53. The cables I use and love were designed by people who worked/graduated from an Engineering program consistently ranked in the top 5 worldwide. Does this make the ones I use inherently better?
Dave Wilson hires grads and current students from Brigham Young. Is this what gives Wilson speakers credibility?
One last consideration, with all due respect to the guys that Ray Kimber does hire and their intelligence, the "best and brightest" in your typical engineering program are not exactly yearning to work for a high end cable manufacturer. Yes, those of us on this forum accept that audio cables are worthy of extravagant design. This perspective does not hold true on most engineering campus.

RE: "Point 4"
While Caelin Gabriel is certainly a bright man, I have always considered him to be a far greater master of spin than scientist. Consider the very statement Myles quotes... "There is no Engineer with a more complete..." This does not actually say that Caelin is an engineer. It could just as easily have been said, "There is no Garbage Man with a more complete understanding...." This later statement would prove very likely true, with all due respect to your typical garbage man. But "engineer" makes the point better.
Also the nature of that quote is dripping with arrogance. "There is NO better..." Really? Because he's taken them all on, head to head? Or he just thinks that highly of himself and his specific background? Not that it actually matters, but I know physicists that are world renowned that look at some of Caelin's designs and laughs at them. One even went so far as to say (regarding the original Hydra), "Yeah, that's something he would have learned in the Army. They do that sort of thing in the desert."
The thing that amuses me the most about Shunyata is the evolution their "marketing" has taken over the years. BEFORE, Caelin was a rockstar in the high end, he was a self admitted college dropout who joined the army and eventually earned the EQUIVALENT of an electrical engineering degree and later sent to the NSA. Years later that story morphed into "Was recruited out of college by the NSA." This updated phrasing certainly sound much more impressive. But then who didn't do this as best they could when writing out their resume? haha.
This is not to pick on Caelin. I used Shunyata myself back in the day and regularly recommended it to others. But what comes out of Shunyata marketing has continued to gain an amusing increase in the precision of the way they parse their statements.

There surely ARE some very bright and credible engineers that work in this industry. But they tend to be quiet about their credentials. Personally, I think credibility is far too freely associated with much of the high end. It's just one more marketing angle, kind of like (000) speaker cables.

 

[KeithR]

How did I miss this gem

When a pair of wires costs as much as the speakers to be used on (let's say Wilson Alexias in this case, a forum darling), can't we all just admit its bullshit?

Also, I will disagree with Myles in that I can't remember a cable "make or break" a system. This would never happen imo if you use good, basic copper cabling from a host of audiophile companies- won't break the bank either.

As far the designer credentials- I believe Ted Denney from Synergistics was a printer, now a self- proclaimed Tesla expert lol

 

[treitz3]

Also, I will disagree with Myles in that I can't remember a cable "make or break" a system. This would never happen imo if you use good, basic copper cabling from a host of audiophile companies- won't break the bank either.

Hello, KeithR. We will have to agree to disagree on that one. I have heard first hand on way more than a single occasion just one pair of cables make or break a system. The difference was at most from unlistenable IMO to outstanding......and everything in between when switching out just the cable in one location. In my experience, cost means nothing. Synergy means everything.

Tom

 

[GaryProtein]

How did I miss this gem

When a pair of wires costs as much as the speakers to be used on (let's say Wilson Alexias in this case, a forum darling), can't we all just admit its bullshit?

Also, I will disagree with Myles in that I can't remember a cable "make or break" a system. This would never happen imo if you use good, basic copper cabling from a host of audiophile companies- won't break the bank either.

As far the designer credentials- I believe Ted Denney from Synergistics was a printer, now a self- proclaimed Tesla expert lol

If the cables approach the cost of the speaker, it's time to raise/double your speaker budget and use lamp wire.

 

[RogerD]

if the cables approach the cost of the speaker, it's time to raise/double your speaker budget and use lamp wire.

take two 12 gauge wires ( one for + one for - ) and twist them together approximately one inch per twist
go to an electrical supply store and purchase 1/4" shielding, and cover the two twisted wires.
Do not allow the shield to contact the bare wires. Tape the shield at either end.
If possible insulate the shield. (rap it with electrical tape)
you will have just made a pair of speaker cables.

 

[FrantzM]

Hello, KeithR. We will have to agree to disagree on that one. I have heard first hand on way more than a single occasion just one pair of cables make or break a system. The difference was at most from unlistenable IMO to outstanding......and everything in between when switching out just the cable in one location. In my experience, cost means nothing. Synergy means everything.

Tom

I would like to surmise that you have most likely seen rather than heard such. I would soften my position with cables with networks such as MIT or Transparent on very specific electronics such as Spectral. Else for the most part if you don't know what cable is there ... the system is usually not broken. A great system does not break .. I am willing fo example to test this with superlative systems such as those of Jack 101, Steve or MikeL. I am even willing to grant that there would be differences when heard sighted but break such systems?!? Not possible unless a real jack hammer is being used in and (perish that thought) on the same room

The term "Synergy" has become an audiophile favorite. Component "matching" is more precise but we tend to navigate in imprecision when it comes to audiophile vocabulary ...

As for the "Price brigade" slant, if it is meant to be derogatory it cannot stick/. We are on what I perceive to be a Discussion Forum not an echo chamber. Any claim can and should be discussed. Extraordinary claims should elicit and deserve appropriate, proportional scrutiny and so does extraordinary price for what is after a piece of wire. Endeavors that are far more complex than Audio reproduction do not use these extravagantly priced cables yet when it comes to audio ...
And there is no end in sight. Cables is where the most money is likely made in High End Audio. I don't see this ending since the whole industry seem to be fixated on the "more expensive" = "Better" . From time to time there are some intonations of "System dependent" and everybody's favorite "Synergy"but for the most part it seems that an expensive cable is replaced by a similarly priced or most likely a more expensive cable. The most interesting thing is that the same cble companies do also dabble in video a much more difficult market segment to penetrate since there are standards and where rigorous testing is prevalent and almost universally accepted. Still Cable companies make a dabble at it from time to ime. i am willing to bet that they don't manage to sell these to the hardcore videophile. OTOH the audiophile who swears by said brand of audiophile cable is likely to use these stupendously expensive HDMI or video cables in their video system and likely note the "increase"clarity ... and better overall video reproduction. And of course there are the Audiophile Ethernet cables .. for better digital ..

I will grant the owner of this cable that it makes a difference to his ears. I believe it is fair to question the brutal price of this piece of wire. I would also like the defender of Expensive Audio Things to stop trying to make of those designers godlike creatures that walk on air and are above questioning so vast their knowledge is. it comes out false and strained and make of these people what I don't think they aspire to be.
On a lighter note the race toward the $100k speaker cable is officially on... who will be there first and how will the audiophile community react to that?

 

[treitz3]

Wow, Frantz. I believe you took my statement the wrong way or read more into my statement than what was I was trying to relay. I will clarify a bit when I get home. Good morning, BTW.

Tom