TechDas Air Force One
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Can't help noticing from the picture, that the Tech Das appears to come in a cardboard box.....whereas my SME deck, at a third of the price, arrives in a well-built wooden crate. For $100,000 I'd hope for something a bit less basic. That's a truly huge amount of cash. I'd want all the trimmings. Come to think of it, my Audionote amp also came in a strong wooden crate. Crates may cost the manufacturer more money, but they surely offer a lot more protection...especially if you ever have to ship the unit later on.
Which is why I try to always keep the packing boxes.
Which is why I try to always keep the packing boxes.
I bet the cardboard box is an inner box that goes inside a wooden crate. Just a guess.
Paskinn you are quickly becoming to the AF One what Syntax was to TW Acoustic turntables. For someone not interested in one you sure post about it a lot.
If you mean by 'not interested' that I won't be buying one, you are correct. I couldn't afford one, and having heard one, would not be in a rush at the very high price. But since you ask, I am interested in high end decks, and have access to quite a few of them. It is one way in which I can try to judge progress. I am entitled to show interest without being criticised by someone with a commercial interest in the product. And my observation about the packing is surely perfectly fair. To be frank, I am not so keen on people with commercial interests appearing to try to close down fair comment. You wouldn't want that would you? This is a forum for debate after all.
There is a chance that i'l be hearing the Tech Das again soon, against a Walker air-bearing deck, and , possibly, a rebuilt Goldmund Reference. If that does happen, I'l let you know how it works out. Good products tend to benefit from interested scrutiny.
If you reread my observations, you will find not one word of criticism of the performance of your deck, rather an attempt to bring a sense of perspective, because the Tech Das does not exist in a world without competitors. I know good businessmen welcome competition!
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I'm an enthusiast first, an audio industry participant second. My audio business' contribution to my bottom line is a proverbial drop in the bucket. I see that it is so convenient to use my being a distributor to paint me as some sort of shill but look at MY posts Paskinn. I often recommend products we do not carry and am very candid about products I wish we did but were beaten to the punch to. So I would appreciate it if you laid off the conspiracy angle. I commented as an owner not a seller.
As you can see from what I carry, a lot of products come through our doors. Some in double boxes, some in crates, some in flight cases. We are half way around the world so you can imagine the potential for damage. To date (8 years) not one has ever arrived damaged. I've seen some crushed corners on boxes and nicks on the wooden crates. It is the interior packing that is crucial for the drop test, not the exterior packing. There is one case where I would insist on crates and that would be if the items are sent by sea (Large loudspeakers). Crates protect equipment from moisture especially the way we have them packed (with sealants). Although it is more expensive, we send all our electronics by air through specialized handlers (mainly DBSchenker and Pilot) who actually know what "FRAGILE" and "DO NOT STACK" mean. No FedEX, UPS or DHL.
Now would I have wanted them in crates? By sea definitely, but in this case, JAL Air Cargo, not necessary. Having said that, I think Flight Cases are THE BOMB even if they really aren't needed.
As for your impressions on your next round of shoot outs, yeah that would be cool. Even if I know you're not into any decks that have no suspension or what fits your definition of suspension, it would still be cool. Nobody is trying to shut you down. Let's just say you irked me by nitpicking a box of all things (with the requisite SME name drop) on the day I got something that I've been waiting for for a looooooong time putting a damper on the celebrations. Real classy man.
By the way, I like SME decks. I have clients that use 30s and 20s, too bad their local distributor appears to have vanished without a trace. Maybe I'll take it on or maybe not......
As you can see from what I carry, a lot of products come through our doors. Some in double boxes, some in crates, some in flight cases. We are half way around the world so you can imagine the potential for damage. To date (8 years) not one has ever arrived damaged. I've seen some crushed corners on boxes and nicks on the wooden crates. It is the interior packing that is crucial for the drop test, not the exterior packing. There is one case where I would insist on crates and that would be if the items are sent by sea (Large loudspeakers). Crates protect equipment from moisture especially the way we have them packed (with sealants). Although it is more expensive, we send all our electronics by air through specialized handlers (mainly DBSchenker and Pilot) who actually know what "FRAGILE" and "DO NOT STACK" mean. No FedEX, UPS or DHL.
Now would I have wanted them in crates? By sea definitely, but in this case, JAL Air Cargo, not necessary. Having said that, I think Flight Cases are THE BOMB even if they really aren't needed.
As for your impressions on your next round of shoot outs, yeah that would be cool. Even if I know you're not into any decks that have no suspension or what fits your definition of suspension, it would still be cool. Nobody is trying to shut you down. Let's just say you irked me by nitpicking a box of all things (with the requisite SME name drop) on the day I got something that I've been waiting for for a looooooong time putting a damper on the celebrations. Real classy man.
By the way, I like SME decks. I have clients that use 30s and 20s, too bad their local distributor appears to have vanished without a trace. Maybe I'll take it on or maybe not......
This will be my last post on this particular matter....because life is too short. I entered this debate months ago by simply pointing out that the most sensible course was to wait and see how the Tech Das measured-up in the market place. I honoured the spirit of that remark by going to the trouble of hearing the deck, purchased from Japan by a friend. I gave feed-back on that day (actually, it was fun) in the most balanced and fair way I could; stressing that other people might find quite different results. I still think the comment that for $100,000 dollars I'd like a bit more than cardboard and polystyrene is fair, because the quality of packaging is important in luxury goods.It's not just about shipping.....
Anyway, enough, I'm sorry if I spoilt your day but, for my part, I feel you have used your status as a distributor to paint me as somehow unreasonable or unfair. I will report any further listening sessions on another forum.
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Doesn't mean anything. I've had equipment arrived trashed in triple cardboard boxed packaging as well as wooden crates. Nothing fazes Fedex or UPS.
BTW, have you actually priced wood vs. Cardboard? Could you tell us? You might be surprised what a double boxed cardboard shipping container with the foam, etc inside costs.
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I never saw any damage to the products that I or anyone that I know that has equipment that was delivered on a pallet--in hard cases I see dents--so paskinn I hope you keep your pallets.
The Sonus Faber Stradivari speakers come in cardboard boxes. Surely you would not accuse Serblin of cutting corners on cost .
The Sonus Faber Stradivari speakers come in cardboard boxes. Surely you would not accuse Serblin of cutting corners on cost .
And my 4 chassis Jadis JA200 came in very thin (by today's standards) cardboard boxes as well.
Not so sure. Many manufacturers avoid using wood crates because some countries, such as China, require special certification on the wood as being worm free - can you imagine a $100k turntable spending a month at the customs waiting for a certificate? It can easily happen.
I think people are being to hard on passkinn , if he thinks he would want a wooden crate with a 100.000 dollar turntable so what its his opinion/wish
I prefer wooden crates as well, passkin keep us posted
I prefer wooden crates as well, passkin keep us posted
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+1.. Since many here love the product anything goes. i did find the packaging not worthy of $100K.. Burmester sent the 911 in a Zero Halliburton case (back then I don't know how they ship them nowadays). .. For an instrument of such precision, I would have expected more in the way of packaging ... When one knows that a Pelican case that can take anything short of a ballistic missile direct strike is a less than $1000 ... I use them for shipping electronics equipment that I know will be rough handled ...
I also noted other shots at paskin for his remarks on the TechDas .. seems that the TechDas thread has become an NCA (No Criticism Allowed) zone ...
Gryphon ships the Trident, a 6ft tall behemoth of a loudspeaker in flight cases. That is definitely cool. Like I said cool but not needed. Would I want all my gear to come with flight cases like the Light Harmonic? Sure. If I was irked it wasn't about the criticism per se but the timing.
Personally I was never too impressed by crates. When equipment comes all I want to do is get them out of the box and use it. Like a kid on Christmas morning, I'm ripping that fancy gift wrapping off! My BAT gear and Levinson gear all came in double boxes. My Lamm and big KR gear all come in crates. All VRs come in crates. For a 100k I'd want my turntable to make me coffee and give me a back rub LOL but at the end of the day all I need it to do is play records and play it well.
On a happy note, the support shelf has arrived and set up begins today
Personally I was never too impressed by crates. When equipment comes all I want to do is get them out of the box and use it. Like a kid on Christmas morning, I'm ripping that fancy gift wrapping off! My BAT gear and Levinson gear all came in double boxes. My Lamm and big KR gear all come in crates. All VRs come in crates. For a 100k I'd want my turntable to make me coffee and give me a back rub LOL but at the end of the day all I need it to do is play records and play it well.
On a happy note, the support shelf has arrived and set up begins today
well next time I should choose to buy turntable from how good packing box ?!!!! for may answer this sound ridiculous . like some toyota owner say about how bad of rolls royce . but i don't have rolls royce so i not comment about it!! .
any one care about how heavy for this turn table ? it 85 Kg . almost 200 lb . if put it in hard case how much weight and how much cost for transportation.
and this why FEDEX go bigger everyday .
i believe that japanese traditional they very care about packet i see most japanese item box look cool . or if it not look cool it will be useful.
my Af1 arrived with normal box ,it feel a little disappoint when compare to other japanese box i ever seen. but result is it arrived safely and structure in the box very strong . all foam is in best support position like the way of japanese do . so it seem ok that this turn will travel around the world with out damage . i guest . .... and this packet save a lot of shipping cost . this mean safe my money too. so i don't care how box look like if it can safe my goods and save my cost , it ok . if it broken it also not my responsibility too . so why to care about box . if you want a good box you may order SKB case and their will charge you more 1000-2000 usd for beautiful box and you have to pay more shipping cost make fedex richer .that all everything come with price .
I just want to say every box have own reason . so enjoy
life so short who want to keep the box utill you die just do ,for me if it too much just trow away. very simple . i'm may crazy but not stupid for giving best box award to hifi component boxs..... and for reason to buy any hifi component
ps i'm not a dealer . just user.
any one care about how heavy for this turn table ? it 85 Kg . almost 200 lb . if put it in hard case how much weight and how much cost for transportation.
and this why FEDEX go bigger everyday .
i believe that japanese traditional they very care about packet i see most japanese item box look cool . or if it not look cool it will be useful.
my Af1 arrived with normal box ,it feel a little disappoint when compare to other japanese box i ever seen. but result is it arrived safely and structure in the box very strong . all foam is in best support position like the way of japanese do . so it seem ok that this turn will travel around the world with out damage . i guest . .... and this packet save a lot of shipping cost . this mean safe my money too. so i don't care how box look like if it can safe my goods and save my cost , it ok . if it broken it also not my responsibility too . so why to care about box . if you want a good box you may order SKB case and their will charge you more 1000-2000 usd for beautiful box and you have to pay more shipping cost make fedex richer .that all everything come with price .
I just want to say every box have own reason . so enjoy
life so short who want to keep the box utill you die just do ,for me if it too much just trow away. very simple . i'm may crazy but not stupid for giving best box award to hifi component boxs..... and for reason to buy any hifi component
ps i'm not a dealer . just user.
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