TechDas Air Force One

[garylkoh]

I'm very interested in the fact that this new contender for SOTA is a belt drive system. There is so much discussion these days about the superior speed stability of Direct Drive. And that is a long belt driving a heavy platter. I guess the material is non-stretch so that should address the issue and perhaps offer the speed stability and the isolation from motor noise.

How can you have a non-stretch belt? Has anyone checked the speed stability of this new table?

You design the belt yourself. It's a fiber belt that is coated in a very high friction material. It doesn't stretch.

Using the PlatterSpeed app, I got +/- 0.08%. It is affected by belt tension, but the belt-tension adjust makes this very easy to adjust, and the PlatterSpeed app makes it very easy to see (and hear) the changes.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

Peter - nice video..... but why would anyone want to put a record weight on top of an air-bearing platter, and with vacuum hold-down at that? Wouldn't the additional weight affect the air bearing?

I saw the weight next to the table and thought (dangerous as that may be) that it was there for a purpose. Of course Bob Graham put that to rest, but I thought it was a unique idea nonetheless. I did a weight shootout on my Luxman PD555 with the vacuum engaged and heard a difference with all three weights. I liked the table with a lighter wooden weight and so I'm not too off base by showing a weight on the AFO. Also, the weight in the video was very light. I think it's an $895 Mpingo so it must make a difference

It did add to the video's mystique!

 

[mep]

So Gary, when you say the belt doesn't stretch, does that mean that the table has a belt tensioner that you have to loosen to install the belt and then tighten after you install the belt?

 

[mep]

I saw the weight next to the table and thought (dangerous as that may be) that it was there for a purpose. Of course Bob Graham put that to rest, but I thought it was a unique idea nonetheless. I did a weight shootout on my Luxman PD555 with the vacuum engaged and heard a difference with all three weights. I liked the table with a lighter wooden weight and so I'm not too off base by showing a weight on the AFO. Also, the weight in the video was very light. I think it's an $895 Mpingo so it must make a difference

It did add to the video's mystique!

So did the white gloves and the Mime routine.

 

[garylkoh]

So Gary, when you say the belt doesn't stretch, does that mean that the table has a belt tensioner that you have to loosen to install the belt and then tighten after you install the belt?

Yes.

 

[A.wayne]

I thought that was Peter's Butler ......

 

[Bruce B]

Great video.... I was actually surprised at the price. I thought it would be alot more. Looks like the new king of the hill!

 

[garylkoh]

Great video.... I was actually surprised at the price. I thought it would be alot more. Looks like the new king of the hill!

Price seems wrong from what I understand as a manufacturer about dealer margins, etc. unless Bob is thinking of selling it factory direct as a direct seller.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

It is listed at 6,500,000 yen retail which includes margin. I was very specific with Bob about pricing, he was more concerned with setting the packaged "system" price. I believe the numbers add up correctly. Yen to dollar is $77,169.95, duty and shipping will bring he total up (on the distributor price). All in all, if the price holds near these levels, it is one of the few uber products that appear to be priced at "yous gets what yous pays for" level.

 

[A.wayne]

Its a steal , no way I'm getting that 997TT now ....

 

[Bruce B]

It is listed at 6,500,000 yen retail which includes margin. I was very specific with Bob about pricing, he was more concerned with setting the packaged "system" price. I believe the numbers add up correctly. .

I would have certainly put it in Statement and Caliburn territory.

 

[garylkoh]

I would have certainly put it in Statement and Caliburn territory.

Having listened to all three tables with the Genesis 1 in customer's homes - I would definitely put the Air Force ONE up there and beyond.

 

[Gregadd]

if you use a rubber band type elastic belt will tend to contract and expect as the motor pulls on it. This can cause speed variations. This is a problem for speed stability. A non-elastic belt such as one made from video tape. I saw a table like the Red Point with a separate motor module that is easily placed for optimum tenrion.

 

[rockitman]

Its a steal , no way I'm getting that 997TT now ....

I have a 996GT3 purchased in 2004, track setup with less than 11K mileage...on a best day I could sell it for the TechDas...lol. I would certainly like to hear it against my table in my system before ever considering a $45k leap more than my table..I am skeptical if I would achieve a good bang for my buck over my current rig..Cars can be a great value when you compare them against the few uber hyper expensive tables...

 

[garylkoh]

if you use a rubber band type elastic belt will tend to contract and expect as the motor pulls on it. This can cause speed variations. This is a problem for speed stability. A non-elastic belt such as one made from video tape. I saw a table like the Red Point with a separate motor module that is easily placed for optimum tenrion.

That's right. A rubber band-type belt will "bounce" with the cogginess of the motor, and even the servo-speed control system. However, this particular picture seems strange to me - even if the video tape belt doesn't stretch, the platter has sides machined into it???

In the case of the TechDAS belt, it's a coated fiber belt. The coating to increase friction so that it can spin up that heavy flywheel as quickly as possible, and fiber that doesn't stretch. I asked if it was Silk?? Dental floss?? Kevlar?? and all the tech would do was smile at me and nod each time.

 

[Gregadd]

Actually the videotape anaogy was raised by another hobbyist as a a DIY solution. I am sure the the designer of both tables have a solution to the problems you raised.

 

[pcosta]

Peter Breuninger

Who's system was that video shot at. I see a lot of Shun Mook room tuning devices. How was the sound.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

Peter Breuninger

Who's system was that video shot at. I see a lot of Shun Mook room tuning devices. How was the sound.

It's a new entry in "Worlds Greatest Audio Systems", the sound was consummate with the gear, a very refined sound and a system and room to be envied by all. We will publish the full video of the system and the room very soon. It is indeed as or more drool worthy than the table itself.

 

[pcosta]

Cool, looking forward to seeing it. Keep it up.

 

[audioarcher]

That's right. A rubber band-type belt will "bounce" with the cogginess of the motor, and even the servo-speed control system. However, this particular picture seems strange to me - even if the video tape belt doesn't stretch, the platter has sides machined into it???

In the case of the TechDAS belt, it's a coated fiber belt. The coating to increase friction so that it can spin up that heavy flywheel as quickly as possible, and fiber that doesn't stretch. I asked if it was Silk?? Dental floss?? Kevlar?? and all the tech would do was smile at me and nod each time.

Yes, I'm not sure about the platter on the Redpoint table either.

As for the belt on the TechDas I would be more concerned about whether the belt is a uniform thickness than what it's made of. From the speed test you did I would say it's pretty good. It would be interesting to put a Sutherland Timeline on it with a record playing and see how it does with stylus drag.

Is there any information on how the motor works? Does it have servo control? I noticed it has pitch controls. Have you played with them yet?