The Colibri “Master Signature”

[Tango]

The Master Signature Stradivarius is equipped with an improved magnet, it gives a more dynamic sound."

The magnet is very strong. If your top platter has a lot of steel composition, the magnet would pull so much the cartridge bottom hits the vinyl.

Tang

 

[kodomo]

The magnet is very strong. If your top platter has a lot of steel composition, the magnet would pull so much the cartridge bottom hits the vinyl.

Tang

First the pops and clicks and now this. Tang, first you made my mouth water, and just now when I am buying one you are spilling the beans

Joking aside, mine will be twice the power of your magnet but my platter is made out of aluminium and acyrlic so no worries I have no worries about magnetism.

 

[Tango]

First the pops and clicks and now this. Tang, first you made my mouth water, and just now when I am buying one you are spilling the beans
.

The kind of feedbacks you dont read in magazine Kodomo san.

Tang

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The magnet is very strong. If your top platter has a lot of steel composition, the magnet would pull so much the cartridge bottom hits the vinyl.

Tang

not sure this is a serious statement.

OTOH magnetic steel in a platter (typically not 100% evenly distributed) will change the VTF randomly for cartridges with stronger magnets. a good check is to measure VTF in various places on the platter to see what the variance might be. it won't take much force to effect the music significantly and the cause would be mysterious.

 

[bonzo75]

Which platters have steel composition apart from AS?

 

[Tango]

not sure this is a serious statement.

OTOH magnetic steel in a platter (typically not 100% evenly distributed) will change the VTF randomly for cartridges with stronger magnets. a good check is to measure VTF in various places on the platter to see what the variance might be. it won't take much force to effect the music significantly and the cause would be mysterious.

It is as I said Mike. David sent me a different top platter with different material. It does nuance even better than the first one and the Master Sig can work on it without bottoming down. I never measured vtf in different places. I dont think I need to the way it is working now.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Mike Lavigne]

It is as I said Mike. David sent me a different top platter with different material. It does nuance even better than the first one and the Master Sig can work on it without bottoming down. I never measured vtf in different places. I dont think I need to the way it is working now.

Kind regards,
Tang

wow! it actually bottomed out? never seen or heard of that before. i did not mean to be disrespectful and doubt you......i thought you were kidding.

i have witnessed a platter with magnetic steel weights/layers in it which did cause VTF non-linear issues with particular cartridges. nuf said as said platters were rectified. likely not the only case, and carts with the strongest magnets are not familiar to every tt builder.

 

[Tango]

wow! it actually bottomed out? never seen or heard of that before. i did not mean to be disrespectful and doubt you......i thought you were kidding.

i have witnessed a platter with magnetic steel weights/layers in it which did cause VTF non-linear issues with particular cartridges. nuf said as said platters were rectified. likely not the only case, and carts with the strongest magnets are not familiar to every tt builder.

We actually tried a few different Master Sig's we had on hand that day. The same thing happened. Then a phone call was made to Mr.Van den Hul, he rightfully pointed out asking magnetism of the platter. And David happened to have a different top platter up his sleeve.

Tang

 

[rockitman]

Latest news is that VDH recommends me the 1.1mV output version with their Grail preamplifier. I directly quote from VDH

"Your questions are discussed with our specialist William van den Hul (together with our director Aalt van den Hul).

The best match is the Colibri Master Signature Stradivarius (Pau Amarello version) with an output of 1.1 mV. It works optimal with the Grail preamplifier.

The Master Signature Stradivarius is equipped with an improved magnet, it gives a more dynamic sound."

I went for the 1.1mV version..

 

[microstrip]

wow! it actually bottomed out? never seen or heard of that before. i did not mean to be disrespectful and doubt you......i thought you were kidding.

i have witnessed a platter with magnetic steel weights/layers in it which did cause VTF non-linear issues with particular cartridges. nuf said as said platters were rectified. likely not the only case, and carts with the strongest magnets are not familiar to every tt builder.

The only time I had this problem was with the Thorens TD124 (first version) - it had an iron platter that would attract some cartridges, changing significantly the tracking force. Later TD124's had an aluminum platter and were free from this problem, although many people preferred the sound of the original.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes which is why schopper and swissonor give a non magnetic platter

 

[sujay]

Ok so I get it now......all the fuss about the MSS Colibri. I received my 1.1mv version yesterday and have been listening continuously for 2 days. In short, its like nothing I have heard before - quite insane! It’s explosive. Loving it

 

[ddk]

We actually tried a few different Master Sig's we had on hand that day. The same thing happened. Then a phone call was made to Mr.Van den Hul, he rightfully pointed out asking magnetism of the platter. And David happened to have a different top platter up his sleeve.

Tang

Machining stainless steel can sometimes cause the material to become very slightly ferromagnetic, meaning that a strong magnet can be attracted to it not the steel turns magnetic. It was a problem with only a few of the AS2000 upper platters and even then it was so slight that aside from the vdH a nonissue with any other cartridges and never measured a fluctuating VTF which is easily heard. Using any other materials like aluminum, titanium, copper, brass, acrylics was the cheap and quick fix but they all compromise the sound with audible color. The proprietary stainless formulation we went with is very expensive, difficult to machine and hard to get in the diameter we needed but it’s the right the stuff for the AS2000. The last thing I wanted was to to compromise the sound with other materials.

david

 

[tima]

I'm mounting my Master Sig this weekend on a 11" 4Point. It's 1.1mv, I don't know what wood is used, it's a medium tan color. Recommended 1.35 - 1.50gm tracking force.

Any suggestions are most appreciated from the Colibriscenti on where to start with VTF and VTA (tail up or down) . TIA

 

[sujay]

All the best! Amazing cartridge, an absolute PITA to set up IME. I have now left it at 1.48g and tail down. Tinkered around a million times before I settled on this. Guess I will leave it alone for about 50-75 hours for allowing the cart to break in. It is a very open, high energy cart with definite leanings towards higher mids and above, though the bass response is superb too.

Enjoy!

 

[Tango]

I'm mounting my Master Sig this weekend on a 11" 4Point. It's 1.1mv, I don't know what wood is used, it's a medium tan color. Recommended 1.35 - 1.50gm tracking force.

Any suggestions are most appreciated from the Colibriscenti on where to start with VTF and VTA (tail up or down) . TIA

Dear Tima,

Mr. VanDenHul recommends bringing down vtf to 1.45 after 50 hrs and bring down more to 1.40 after 100 hrs. I like tail up in my setting.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[sujay]

For avoidance of any doubt, by tail down I mean the pivot side of the tonearm is lower than the cartridge side.

 

[sujay]

Dear Tima,

Mr. VanDenHul recommends bringing down vtf to 1.45 after 50 hrs and bring down more to 1.40 after 100 hrs. I like tail up in my setting.

Kind regards,
Tang

Hi Tang, apologies for asking this again but can you pls clarify your VTA setting. By tail up do you mean that the pivot ( ie where the Tonearm is attached to the turntable ) side is higher?

 

[Tango]

Hi Tang, apologies for asking this again but can you pls clarify your VTA setting. By tail up do you mean that the pivot ( ie where the Tonearm is attached to the turntable ) side is higher?

Yes. It means lifting the rear end which gives accents to mids and highs, sharper transient creating more presence. But you have to strike a good balance otherwiseyou lose weight. Without density and weight you don't get the presence or fool you real sensation. The cart of this caliber is very sensitive. If you change the vtf you have to adjust the vta again too.

I could be wrong. It is just the way I hear it from my system. I am just a rookie. No pretend to be a master Jedi.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[sujay]

Yes. It means lifting the rear end which gives accents to mids and highs, sharper transient creating more presence. But you have to strike a good balance otherwiseyou lose weight. Without density and weight you don't get the presence or fool you real sensation. The cart of this caliber is very sensitive. If you change the vtf you have to adjust the vta again too.

I could be wrong. It is just the way I hear it from my system. I am just a rookie. No pretend to be a master Jedi.

Kind regards,
Tang

Thanks, Tang. Got it. I have it the other way around as I mentioned to balance out the mids and treble somewhat and it has worked well so far. I guess, there is no escaping the fact that this cart demands experimentation. I reckon I am way lower down the chain compared to you when it comes to expertise in this area!

Cheers

Sujay