The Colibri “Master Signature”

[jackelsson]

Hi kodomo, my two Colibris needed a fair bit of breaking in before they really began to sing. I see this more in the 100h region than much below that.

I run/ran both my former 'standard' XGW Grenadille and now the Sig at 1,4g VTF and 1kOhm load with my Pass XP-25. Both in an SME 312s with Ortofon TSW-5000 cable. The tonearm is absolutely straight and azimut on the Sig is best I ever measured on any cartridge with Adjust+. Listening confirmed this so no need for much fiddling there.

 

[kodomo]

Hi kodomo, my two Colibris needed a fair bit of breaking in before they really began to sing. I see this more in the 100h region than much below that.

There is some harshness/sibilance that is too much and the whole frequency spectrum is tilted towards highs, it may get tamed a little but not this much I guess. I am aware of break-in needed but hearing other peoples reports on when they first installed their mss, I think I have a setup problem.


I have calculated my current settings for preamp. Here it is, there does not seem to be a problem. It says input with overload at 4mV and my colibri is 1.1mV.
I will try higher and lower gain as well as higher loads (I have read 180ohm seems to be the perfect match for internal 13ohm resistance).

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Hi Kodomo,

Have you checked that the cantilever is absolutely straight? Have you looked with a digital microscope or iPhone microscope to confirm the angle of the stylus to the vinyl?

I found the same with a VDH XGW so you might need a new cartridge. There have been some QC issues with the VDH carts so worth trying to work out whether it is the cart rather than setup and / or electrical mismatch.

 

[kodomo]

Hi Kodomo,

Have you checked that the cantilever is absolutely straight? Have you looked with a digital microscope or iPhone microscope to confirm the angle of the stylus to the vinyl?

I found the same with a VDH XGW so you might need a new cartridge. There have been some QC issues with the VDH carts so worth trying to work out whether it is the cart rather than setup and / or electrical mismatch.

When you say you found the same, do you mean harshness/sibilance or a cantilever that was not straight. I feel the cantilevers suspension may have a problem but, I will try for a few more days and then write to VdH.

For info, I have now also tried low (2mV) and high sensitivity settings and it made no difference just the change of output level. I change the load and it made a tonal difference and added nice dynamic on 150ohms but no change for sibilance/harshness issue. I tried varying levels of vta too but no difference for the problem as well. I have also tried three different cables with no effect.

 

[sujay]

Hi Kodomo, the MSS is one hell of a cartridge! I haven’ heard anything like it before. It’s superb but an absolute PITA to set up ( at least to a novice like me). I must admit I still havent been able to completely get rid of the excessive sibilance. It sounds divine on classical and jazz though. It’s some vocals and on rock that it doesn’t ‘behave’.
I wrote to VDH. They advised me to set up in a way whereby the rear of the Tonearm is 7mm higher than the front with the stylus resting on the record surface. This has indeed helped a lot to alleviate the problem. According to VDH, the stylus should ‘dig’ into the groove and the 7mm height difference helps achieve that.
As to other measures, gain is currently at 66 db and loading at 320 ohm.
And as I write this, Led Zeppelin is sounding absolutely divine, which has me all flummoxed as it’s classic hard rock and according to what I wrote earlier, shouldn’t sound nice......but it’s sounding great! Leaves me shaking my head!

Try adjusting the VTA so that the rear is 7mm up relative to the front and see what happens. Just so that you know, I had to raise the arm quite a bit from the rear to achieve this.

Cheers

 

[Audiophile Bill]

When you say you found the same, do you mean harshness/sibilance or a cantilever that was not straight. I feel the cantilevers suspension may have a problem but, I will try for a few more days and then write to VdH.

For info, I have now also tried low (2mV) and high sensitivity settings and it made no difference just the change of output level. I change the load and it made a tonal difference and added nice dynamic on 150ohms but no change for sibilance/harshness issue. I tried varying levels of vta too but no difference for the problem as well. I have also tried three different cables with no effect.

Hi,

I had sibilance and after doing all the things you are doing now, I narrowed it down to a slightly skewed cantilever.

I am fairly sure your cartridge isn’t tracking correctly hence the issues you have.

 

[microstrip]

When you say you found the same, do you mean harshness/sibilance or a cantilever that was not straight. I feel the cantilevers suspension may have a problem but, I will try for a few more days and then write to VdH.

For info, I have now also tried low (2mV) and high sensitivity settings and it made no difference just the change of output level. I change the load and it made a tonal difference and added nice dynamic on 150ohms but no change for sibilance/harshness issue. I tried varying levels of vta too but no difference for the problem as well. I have also tried three different cables with no effect.

Do you have experience with other high output cartridges in your phono stage? Sometimes phono stages just change the gain in the output stage or changing the feedback resistor, and do not cope well subjectively with higher outputs.

My ARC phono stage loves the MSS (.9mV) but the Adyton solid state one makes it sound tilted towards high frequencies.

 

[kodomo]

They advised me to set up in a way whereby the rear of the Tonearm is 7mm higher than the front with the stylus resting on the record surface. This has indeed helped a lot to alleviate the problem. According to VDH, the stylus should ‘dig’ into the groove and the 7mm height difference helps achieve that.

Sujay, Can you please tell me what is the tonearm you are using and where exactly did you get those measurements for the 7mm difference.

Do you have experience with other high output cartridges in your phono stage? Sometimes phono stages just change the gain in the output stage or changing the feedback resistor, and do not cope well subjectively with higher outputs.

No, this is my first high output mc, ones I had were all 0,2mV to 0,3mV

 

[bonzo75]

Do you have experience with other high output cartridges in your phono stage? Sometimes phono stages just change the gain in the output stage or changing the feedback resistor, and do not cope well subjectively with higher outputs.

My ARC phono stage loves the MSS (.9mV) but the Adyton solid state one makes it sound tilted towards high frequencies.

What made you try the Adyton? It does not seem to be known well outside Norway. I compared their amps to burmester 911 and gryphon colosseum ones on kef blades and gryphon pantheon

 

[microstrip]

What made you try the Adyton? It does not seem to be known well outside Norway. I compared their amps to burmester 911 and gryphon colosseum ones on kef blades and gryphon pantheon

Well, I own it and no one wanted to to buy it at the advertised price when I listed it a few months ... Curiously it sounds good with my old van den Hul Black Beauty (.25mV) .

 

[sujay]

Sujay, Can you please tell me what is the tonearm you are using and where exactly did you get those measurements for the 7mm difference.

I am using the AMG 12 inch tonearm. The measurements came from VDH. I wrote to them.

 

[sujay]

Hi,

I had sibilance and after doing all the things you are doing now, I narrowed it down to a slightly skewed cantilever.

I am fairly sure your cartridge isn’t tracking correctly hence the issues you have.

This is quite possible

 

[shakti]

To avoid 100h or even more break in time with real music, I am using the

Clearaudio cartridge break in record

https://clearaudio.de/blog/tonabneh...lp/clearaudio-cartridge-break-in-test-record/

which gives a smoother Colibri sound in some days.

 

[tima]

I set the mss up yesterday. I am at 1.5gr vtf, 1gr anti-skating (min. I can get with a 4 point, how does Tima deal with this?

Hi - Yes, smallest anti-skate weight that comes with 4Point is 1gram. I would like to have a .5g weight or smaller, but search as I may, I cannot find such. I can tell you what I will try is one or more AS568-001 O-rings.

4P anti-skate 'pin' is ~ .041-inch or 1.04mm. I'll guess it is meant to be 1mm. The AS568 I came to learn is a set of standardized O-ring sizes published by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), with -001 being the smallest O-ring having an inside diameter of .029-inch.

I placed an order for 10 (minimum) in two different materials, Silcone and Buna-N Nitrile. These are tiny but I do not know what they weigh. At 5¢ ea, this is an experiment I can afford.

An alternative, Kodomo, is your idea to make a .5g (or whatever) glop of blu-tack or similar.

Btw, which Grail phonostage did you order - the SB? The 3-box SE just came out (~$60k ?).

 

[kodomo]

Hi - Yes, smallest anti-skate weight that comes with 4Point is 1gram. I would like to have a .5g weight or smaller, but search as I may, I cannot find such. I can tell you what I will try is one or more AS568-001 O-rings.

4P anti-skate 'pin' is ~ .041-inch or 1.04mm. I'll guess it is meant to be 1mm. The AS568 I came to learn is a set of standardized O-ring sizes published by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), with -001 being the smallest O-ring having an inside diameter of .029-inch.

I placed an order for 10 (minimum) in two different materials, Silcone and Buna-N Nitrile. These are tiny but I do not know what they weigh. At 5¢ ea, this is an experiment I can afford.

An alternative, Kodomo, is your idea to make a .5g (or whatever) glop of blu-tack or similar.

Btw, which Grail phonostage did you order - the SB? The 3-box SE just came out (~$60k ?). I hoping to get a review sample sometime after Axpona.

Yes, I have made a weight out of blu-tak that is 75% lighter than the supplied weight. It seems to be ok for now.

I am torn between a choice between to go fully balanced or unbalanced with my system so I did not order the Grail pre yet.

Is there any info I can find on the new grail se?

 

[tima]

Is there any info I can find on the new grail se?

It will be self-loading as with other Grails and made with very high quality parts, two gain settings - canna remember those but do remember they are reasonable. I do not know of published info.

 

[tima]

To avoid 100h or even more break in time with real music, I am using the

Clearaudio cartridge break in record

https://clearaudio.de/blog/tonabneh...lp/clearaudio-cartridge-break-in-test-record/

which gives a smoother Colibri sound in some days.

How many hours did you put on the pink noise tracks? Did you run through the alternating phase tracks for anti-skate? TIA

 

[microstrip]

To avoid 100h or even more break in time with real music, I am using the

Clearaudio cartridge break in record

https://clearaudio.de/blog/tonabneh...lp/clearaudio-cartridge-break-in-test-record/

which gives a smoother Colibri sound in some days.

Nice. What type of sound is recorded in this LP? During cartridge break-in I usually follow David Wilson general advice - I play chamber music that usually is recorded at high levels and has high energy density. Besides I enjoy Bach ...

 

[bazelio]

To avoid 100h or even more break in time with real music, I am using the

Clearaudio cartridge break in record

https://clearaudio.de/blog/tonabneh...lp/clearaudio-cartridge-break-in-test-record/

which gives a smoother Colibri sound in some days.

From the write-up:

The needle is in the break-in period trained so that it runs so elastic and distortion-free through the grooves, as Ronaldo on the pitch.

 

[bazelio]

Nice. What type of sound is recorded in this LP? During cartridge break-in I usually follow David Wilson general advice - I play chamber music that usually is recorded at high levels and has high energy density. Besides I enjoy Bach ...

Endless grooves of pink noise, and a low-frequency phase sweep for anti-skate.