The end of the CD

[spiritofmusic]

Keith, you don’t do yourself any favours saying “noone” under 40 has a cdp. I’m sure at least 3 young ‘uns do LOL.
So, cd is on the way out, and you’re not in the least bothered about it. Fine.
Me and others who aren’t overly computer savvy are the one who’s making the biggest adjustment.
I certainly hope Tidal doesn’t hit hard times.

 

[marslo]

For me CD is finished on the mass market whilst among audiophiles ( which is synonyme of freaks for " normal "people ) it will go the vinyl way .
So do not sell your collection of silver discs, your grand children will be gratful

 

[Empirical Audio]

I’ve found streaming to sound better than my CD rips using a good burner, XLD accurate rip and CDs cleaned/treated with Ultrabit.
I’m sure there’s a technical reason.

Are you streaming in a different way than playing back the ripped files or using the same method and gear?

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[SuperDave]

there is a huge generational gap here - nobody under 40 even has a CD anymore. and if you read the article, the reason its dying is because stores want guaranteed buybacks of unsold product which the studios don't want - when amazon does the same, lights out.

but if you want to cater to older audiophiles in their 60s, be my guest. seems like a terrible, long term business. again, the biggest problem with this industry is people catering to old people. just like the other thread that said hip hop isn't real music.

I'm almost 40 and still rockin cds. I have a streamer (W20) which i use for casual listening but I still prefer the SQ of the spinner. Maybe I like jitter? If I get a bigger room where I could store vinyl and a TT setup, i'll head that direction.

Dave

 

[Empirical Audio]

just dropping a transport into a system and using a basic interface will not serve the redbook optimally. if you brought a transport, we would need to optimize it like anything else trying to compete with other optimized media delivery systems.

You got that right. You can tweak and mod the transport and tweak the CD's till the cows come home trying to reduce jitter. I used to mod transports myself. A reclocker is a much more effective way to reduce jitter for any transport or server and cheaper.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[Empirical Audio]

I'm almost 40 and still rockin cds. I have a streamer (W20) which i use for casual listening but I still prefer the SQ of the spinner. Maybe I like jitter? If I get a bigger room where I could store vinyl and a TT setup, i'll head that direction.

Dave

Jitter can be euphonic, depending on the jitter. It can add an "ambience" of reflections, echoes and halos that some people like. It's obviously not live and the right recording will show this in spades. It's fairly easy to go down the garden path on jitter and not realize it.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[Blue58]

Are you streaming in a different way than playing back the ripped files or using the same method and gear?

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Streaming from Tidal via Roon & HQP and ripped CDs from internal SSD both upsample using Poly sync XTR -DSD128. Sonically the best setting in my system.

I only use ripped CDs when Tidal doesn’t have the title.
I download only those titles I really like in Hi-res.

Blue58

 

[Empirical Audio]

People that have never done computer audio or streaming just don't get it IMO.

The attraction is to build playlists of each genre with your favorite tracks to play when your mood needs it. No playing of any tracks on an album that you don't like. No need to skip over these like with a CD.

The attraction is to have hours of only music that you like without interruption. Great for parties.

The attraction is to have access to much more music that you would ever have on FM radio with streaming and at very high quality. To be able to select only the genre or period that you want to listen-to, or maybe only Grammy winners etc.. This is the way to discover new music.

The above things make the music listening much more enjoyable compared to a limited CD collection of 75% tracks you don't want to hear anyway.

If you can get equal or BETTER than CD sound quality and all of the above advantages, it is a no-brainer IMO. Those that stick with CD spinners don't know what they are missing.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[SuperDave]

Jitter can be euphonic, depending on the jitter. It can add an "ambience" of reflections, echoes and halos that some people like. It's obviously not live and the right recording will show this in spades. It's fairly easy to go down the garden path on jitter and not realize it.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Steve,
I can't say what makes me prefer the spinner to the streamer but in each step taken to reduce jiiter, I have enjoyed the sound more. Adding a clock smoothed everything out and felt a more natural flow if that makes sense. Sound improved even more when I demoed the MSB Ref Dac with the Femto 33 clock.

 

[Empirical Audio]

Streaming from Tidal via Roon & HQP and ripped CDs from internal SSD both upsample using Poly sync XTR -DSD128. Sonically the best setting in my system.

I only use ripped CDs when Tidal doesn’t have the title.
I download only those titles I really like in Hi-res.

Blue58

What hardware are you using? Is there any difference in this for streaming or ripped CD's?

I would not recommend upsampling or changing to DSD unless your DAC really needs this.

If you compare a PCM track at native sample-rate to same Roon track at native sample-rate, what does this sound like?

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[Empirical Audio]

Steve,
I can't say what makes me prefer the spinner to the streamer but in each step taken to reduce jiiter, I have enjoyed the sound more. Adding a clock smoothed everything out and felt a more natural flow if that makes sense. Sound improved even more when I demoed the MSB Ref Dac with the Femto 33 clock.

I suspect that if you had a renderer with equally or lower jitter, you would like it even more. As you have discovered, it's all about minimizing the jitter, and secondarily about eliminating bad effect of digital filtering.

The problem is that most affordable streamers have relatively high jitter outputs, and most USB interfaces on DACs also have relatively high jitter. This can give computer audio and streamers a bad name. The reality is that it is possible to get even lower jitter with these devices, but it's all in the design and implementation.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[Blue58]

What hardware are you using? Is there any difference in this for streaming or ripped CD's?

I would not recommend upsampling or changing to DSD unless your DAC really needs this.

If you compare a PCM track at native sample-rate to same Roon track at native sample-rate, what does this sound like?

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

See my system listed, no hardware change.
Never tried native sample rates, however I used to spin CDs on the Audio Aero LaFontiane, no slouch in that department but HQP just so much better.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike,

What I said above was more in jest than anything else, I don't need a direct comparison to know if I like something or not. In case of computer audio there's an inherent hifi quality that I hear in all of them and as long as that's there it's no better than an iPhone and free Pandora streamed over an Express network or any Satellite radio station for me. Looking forward to hearing your SGM.

david

hi David,

fair enough, and I know that you have some pre-disposition to lots of things, not only digital in general and computer file/streaming listening. since my system breaks many of your rules (lots of systems break all kind of rules...not unusual) I'm not going to get caught up in in all that stuff. you will hear what you hear, not what I think you should hear.

let the chips fall where they may.

mike

 

[thedudeabides]

Good post.

The last thing I need is to have someone (will not mention names) tell me what I should and shouldn't like. Reminds me of a "pulpit pounding" minister telling me what the best religion is. Nuff said.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Steve, playlists/compilations of no interest to me. Genre specific marathon listening sessions don’t appeal. Similarly vinyl rips to dsd is not my thing.
I’m very happy to go to my shelving and pick discs to play.
Now, the ability to find new music, or get educated in new genres/left field discoveries, that definitely appeals.
But changing the structure of listening sessions, you’re welcome to that. Not for me.

 

[andromedaaudio]

My meittner dac has a USB connection so i can plug my apple in , some recordings on you tube sound pretty good to me , however quality difffers a lot , its a great unlimited source of music.
Its cheap ( i m dutch ) plus you get live recordings /studioversions whatever , testtones check your hearing and system on a 20 20 khz tone

 

[spiritofmusic]

As I potentially swing twds deciding to go streaming:
1- it’ll be an addition to, not replacement for, lp and cd, and I don’t see myself giving up on cd (deluxe boxsets, collectors packaging, “and the kitchen sink” special editions - v few of which feature on Tidal) anytime soon.
2- will primarily be to tap into cult music, specialist genre specific bands and albums I may be missing out on in a big way.
On the basis of that, I have to work out what level of streaming I go to.
I mean it’s for a tiny, but hopefully burgeoning part of my listening, so it doesn’t warrant a massive spend on Day One, but at the same time I need a SQ which will be pretty decent, not prone to the metallic edge I hear in many PC- based solutions.
And that means a solution that seriously addresses noise.
And critically it needs to be as dummy friendly as possible, for this particular consumer who absolutely hates computer/tablet interfaces.

 

[Al M.]

Good post.

The last thing I need is to have someone (will not mention names) tell me what I should and shouldn't like. Reminds me of a "pulpit pounding" minister telling me what the best religion is. Nuff said.

Yes, it's pretty funny how the file fundamentalists want to convert people here.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Al, we’re pretty much on the same side in our devotion to cd and our respective cdp’s.
But even I can’t deny the potential to have one’s musical universe being expanded via Tidal/Roon.
The only exceptions to this would be listeners who are only interested in a library purely from the Golden Age, 100% classical or jazz, 50s-early 80s.
Are you saying there’s really nothing substantial you’re sure you’re not missing out on by not having Tidal/Roon? I certainly can’t.

 

[KeithR]

Yes, it's pretty funny how the file fundamentalists want to convert people here.

Uh, there is no conversion - as most CDPs aren't even in production anymore. See Wadia, Ayre, etc. The market has already moved to streaming.

Honestly, lots of grumpy old men on this thread.