Yes I have a lot of stories to tell, just NOT connected with Audio.....wish they were..Music is a huge part of my life and I need to update..starting with sound improvements....
The fun never ends!
- Thread starter Robert Young
- Start date
Greg at STS has sent on a few pics of the progress on the TD 124. I opted to keep it the original Series 1 color, which is a kind of non-descript beige. Not my favorite
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, but I thought it best to stay original here. I'm also rethinking my original plinth idea, which was to have a long slate deck so that I could have a 12" arm mounted on the back, with a 9" on the 124's arm board. I'm now in an internal argument about whether I want another multi-arm table like my Lenco (which has a Bokrand 12" and a Schroeder Reference on it), or if I should go full-on classic with an Ortofon-style plinth. I'd still have multiple arms, but they'd be mounted on their own arm boards, so I could make relatively quick changes as required.
The arm (the SME 3009 Series 2 non-improved) is done, and Alfred Kayser at SME Tonearms in Canada has sent it on its way to Greg at STS. I have one of Alfred's series 2 non-improved here, and if the "new" arm is anything like this one, it'll be perfect. This thing looks and feels brand new. As much as I like it, I'm going to sell this one to help defray the cost of the TD 124 restoration.
Below are a few pics of the current status.
The arm (the SME 3009 Series 2 non-improved) is done, and Alfred Kayser at SME Tonearms in Canada has sent it on its way to Greg at STS. I have one of Alfred's series 2 non-improved here, and if the "new" arm is anything like this one, it'll be perfect. This thing looks and feels brand new. As much as I like it, I'm going to sell this one to help defray the cost of the TD 124 restoration.
Below are a few pics of the current status.
A little more progress. The table is looking amazing, and the rebuilt SME 3009 Series 2 non-improved has been delivered to STS from Alfred Kayser at SME Tonearms for installation. I've been all over the road about a plinth for this thing, but given it's historic look, with both the beautiful finish of the correct original color and the SME, I've opted to go for a small shell plinth in dark Macassar (Indonesian) Ebony, and use multiple arm boards for the variety of other tonearms I want to use on the table (Infinity Black WIdow/Micro-Acoustics 3002; Signet XK50/Stanton 881s and Signet TK10ml; perhaps a Blackbird from Supatrac). Final thing then to stress over is the feet...if any have had good success with a particular type/brand on an open shell plinth for Thorens, please let me know!
This is a type of the lesson we should all be getting from our parents.
It has been a long time since I last posted about "progress," particularly long for a project for which I did almost nothing myself! Anyway, here's where I've gotten to:
STS Turntables - Greg Metz - finished the 'table beautifully. It is about as good a restoration as possible. Turns out that the 'table was made in the first month of production (!) so it was the right call to do it properly and not change the color. Alfred Kayser at SME Tonearms in Canada restored a superb and very early Series 2 non-improved to replace the mess of metal that was the original on the table (and completely unsalvageable). I did keep the original sled and headshell, just for nostalgia. A new plinth was manufactured by DAS in Hungary from layers of Permali with a Macassar Ebony veneer. Looks lovely, and weighs a ton. I am using IsoAcoustic Gaia III footers. They look great, but more importantly, they really perform better than any footer I've ever used where coupling wasn't proscribed. Highly recommended!! I picked up two solid graphite armboards from Simone at AudioSilente. Spectacular!! Also got a thick acrylic one from Audio Classique in GB: very nice, superb build. Added for the fun of it a Grado Lab Series wood tonearm sporting the Shure M7D that it came with, and with an original era Thorens armboard. Then I got to work! Here's what I had in mind right from the start: SME arm with a Shure V15 iii using an original cantilever with new tip by Joseph Long and Cocobolo body by Stanley, on a graphite armboard. There's also a Shure V15 iii with an SAS/S stylus which sounds different, but just as good. Haven't decided which I like better.
Now here it is with the Grado arm and Shure M7D with an original stylus. This sounds really good! I'm glad I did one set-up like it was 1957. The performance of the cartridge is really amazing. Not certain I'll stick with it, though. May try a few other carts on this arm, like a Stanton 881S with both original and decent LP Gear aftermarket sytli. I'm also curious about a few of my medium compliance cartridges, including an ESE Maya 1 which is based on the amazing AT V95E, and I may try out a Zu Denon DL 103r. That one was originally intended for Jurij's wood EMT clone, but it is too heavy for the counterweight, so its just sitting there looking all sad-dog and lonely. I also want to try my Supex 900 super, as well as the Empire 880p that I have always loved. So many cartridges, so little time, but thankfully plenty of gin to affect the space-time continuum in my favor. (To be cont'd in next post..)
STS Turntables - Greg Metz - finished the 'table beautifully. It is about as good a restoration as possible. Turns out that the 'table was made in the first month of production (!) so it was the right call to do it properly and not change the color. Alfred Kayser at SME Tonearms in Canada restored a superb and very early Series 2 non-improved to replace the mess of metal that was the original on the table (and completely unsalvageable). I did keep the original sled and headshell, just for nostalgia. A new plinth was manufactured by DAS in Hungary from layers of Permali with a Macassar Ebony veneer. Looks lovely, and weighs a ton. I am using IsoAcoustic Gaia III footers. They look great, but more importantly, they really perform better than any footer I've ever used where coupling wasn't proscribed. Highly recommended!! I picked up two solid graphite armboards from Simone at AudioSilente. Spectacular!! Also got a thick acrylic one from Audio Classique in GB: very nice, superb build. Added for the fun of it a Grado Lab Series wood tonearm sporting the Shure M7D that it came with, and with an original era Thorens armboard. Then I got to work! Here's what I had in mind right from the start: SME arm with a Shure V15 iii using an original cantilever with new tip by Joseph Long and Cocobolo body by Stanley, on a graphite armboard. There's also a Shure V15 iii with an SAS/S stylus which sounds different, but just as good. Haven't decided which I like better.
Now here it is with the Grado arm and Shure M7D with an original stylus. This sounds really good! I'm glad I did one set-up like it was 1957. The performance of the cartridge is really amazing. Not certain I'll stick with it, though. May try a few other carts on this arm, like a Stanton 881S with both original and decent LP Gear aftermarket sytli. I'm also curious about a few of my medium compliance cartridges, including an ESE Maya 1 which is based on the amazing AT V95E, and I may try out a Zu Denon DL 103r. That one was originally intended for Jurij's wood EMT clone, but it is too heavy for the counterweight, so its just sitting there looking all sad-dog and lonely. I also want to try my Supex 900 super, as well as the Empire 880p that I have always loved. So many cartridges, so little time, but thankfully plenty of gin to affect the space-time continuum in my favor. (To be cont'd in next post..)
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(Cont'd from above)
While all this was going on (the restorations by others, that is) I got to work rebuilding an Infinity Black Widow. Now back when I first got into audio (as a substitute for not having a girlfriend), the Black Widow was the sexiext thing on the planet. Every turntable shown in bachelor pads published in Playboy sported one. I wanted one so badly, but the $200 price tag was way out of my range. Fast-forward 45 years, and I find one with a broken aluminum arm tube for $200. What a steal!! So I bought it, and went to work figuring out how to make a new carbon fiber armtube. The result came out wonderfully....until in the midst of changing cartridges as I experimented to find what sounded best, I pulled the ridiculously thin arm wiring apart. At least I got to listen to about 6 carts in it before I mucked it up. The best one by far for this arm is the Miro Acoustics 3002, with a sapphire cantilever and Fritz Geiger diamond by Joseph Long. It is a magical combination. Note that I also removed the arm lift, and once it is back from the shop, I'll attach a thread a la SUPATRAC Blackbird to replace it. I'm going to send it out shortly to STS for a rewire, as the Infinity stuff is way too thin for me to work with, particularly as it joins the DIN plug. Even just sitting there without any wires, it still looks sexy as can be, and I STILL can't get a girlfriend. At least my wife thinks it sounds good! It's on the black acrylic armboard from Audio Classique. For whatever reason, it sounded best on the acrylic. Don't ask why, I don't know. All I know is that experimenting was both a pain in the ass, and great, since I listened to about 50 different records during the process.
The 4th arm.cartridge/armboard combo is the Signet XK50 with a Signet TK10e cartridge on graphite armboard. This too is a magical combo, and I'm throughly convinced that the Signet (same as the Audio-Technica AT-1100) is one of the greatest lightweight arms ever made. It is classically Japanese in its superb fit and finish, with extraordinary over-engineering. And the fact that the armtube is swappable is fantastic: there are a few more cartridges at Joseph Long's waiting for him to get through his current backlog, including a Sonus Blue Gold (or is it Gold Blue??), an Ortofon M20FL Super, a Pickering XSV 3000, and a Grace F9e that I want to try on this arm.
So there you have it. This thing sounds awesome: it's nearly as quiet as my Lenco L75/PTP6, but I have to use a stethoscope to hear either motor. It gives away just a tiny bit to the L75 in pace and rhythm, but I think it is better at nuance. The Lenco can rock, and does beautifully on bebop and cool jazz, while the Thorens seems better on chamber music, jazz guitar and vocals. I can't say for sure if this is personal bias or real, but I could care less. It is arguably demonstrable to my wife, which means I don't have to sell one of the set-ups.
Most importantly, I feel good about salvaging a 'table that had sat unused and unloved for probably 60 years. It's resurrection has coincided with me kicking Covid to the curb, so there's that.
Happy Easter and Happy Passover to all. Spring is here, and despite that challenges we face across the globe, there are lots of LPs to listen to!
While all this was going on (the restorations by others, that is) I got to work rebuilding an Infinity Black Widow. Now back when I first got into audio (as a substitute for not having a girlfriend), the Black Widow was the sexiext thing on the planet. Every turntable shown in bachelor pads published in Playboy sported one. I wanted one so badly, but the $200 price tag was way out of my range. Fast-forward 45 years, and I find one with a broken aluminum arm tube for $200. What a steal!! So I bought it, and went to work figuring out how to make a new carbon fiber armtube. The result came out wonderfully....until in the midst of changing cartridges as I experimented to find what sounded best, I pulled the ridiculously thin arm wiring apart. At least I got to listen to about 6 carts in it before I mucked it up. The best one by far for this arm is the Miro Acoustics 3002, with a sapphire cantilever and Fritz Geiger diamond by Joseph Long. It is a magical combination. Note that I also removed the arm lift, and once it is back from the shop, I'll attach a thread a la SUPATRAC Blackbird to replace it. I'm going to send it out shortly to STS for a rewire, as the Infinity stuff is way too thin for me to work with, particularly as it joins the DIN plug. Even just sitting there without any wires, it still looks sexy as can be, and I STILL can't get a girlfriend. At least my wife thinks it sounds good! It's on the black acrylic armboard from Audio Classique. For whatever reason, it sounded best on the acrylic. Don't ask why, I don't know. All I know is that experimenting was both a pain in the ass, and great, since I listened to about 50 different records during the process.
The 4th arm.cartridge/armboard combo is the Signet XK50 with a Signet TK10e cartridge on graphite armboard. This too is a magical combo, and I'm throughly convinced that the Signet (same as the Audio-Technica AT-1100) is one of the greatest lightweight arms ever made. It is classically Japanese in its superb fit and finish, with extraordinary over-engineering. And the fact that the armtube is swappable is fantastic: there are a few more cartridges at Joseph Long's waiting for him to get through his current backlog, including a Sonus Blue Gold (or is it Gold Blue??), an Ortofon M20FL Super, a Pickering XSV 3000, and a Grace F9e that I want to try on this arm.
So there you have it. This thing sounds awesome: it's nearly as quiet as my Lenco L75/PTP6, but I have to use a stethoscope to hear either motor. It gives away just a tiny bit to the L75 in pace and rhythm, but I think it is better at nuance. The Lenco can rock, and does beautifully on bebop and cool jazz, while the Thorens seems better on chamber music, jazz guitar and vocals. I can't say for sure if this is personal bias or real, but I could care less. It is arguably demonstrable to my wife, which means I don't have to sell one of the set-ups.
Most importantly, I feel good about salvaging a 'table that had sat unused and unloved for probably 60 years. It's resurrection has coincided with me kicking Covid to the curb, so there's that.
Happy Easter and Happy Passover to all. Spring is here, and despite that challenges we face across the globe, there are lots of LPs to listen to!
@Robert Young That was an amazing read. I really appreciate the amount of work you have put in to restore this classic. What I also find wholesome is that you pointed out all the people who, in some way, took part in this project. That's not only kind, but it will help others looking for a similar solution. Kudos!
Couldn’t have done it without the expertise of Greg Metz at STS, Alfred Kayser at SME Tonearms, Joseph Long cartridge retipper and Simone Luchetti at Audio Silente. I’m a DIY guy at heart, but I’m also experienced enough to know what is beyond my capabilities. And besides, loving to listen to music is often manifest as a solo act, sitting in the comfy chair with one’s eyes closed…but it is also a social hobby, hence the success of sites like this one and Lenco Heaven: we have a basically good community of people who share something fundamental. Engaging with pros like those i identified has given me 4 more excellent friends with that common foundation.
And besides, they were able to relieve me of some cash that i otherwise would have spent on someting stupid….
That's what I always told my wife.And besides, they were able to relieve me of some cash that i otherwise would have spent on someting stupid….
We have a great community, I love interacting with the people on the forums. There is so much passion and so many ideas. I think we have one of the healthiest societies around.
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A stunning piece of history! What kind of cartridge mount does it have?
Thanks! I’m one of the few who finds these massive broadcast arms to be sublimely beautiful… It uses a sled. Karmadon makes them as well, so I’ve got the GE on the original sled, and will try a Zu Denon DL 103r on a new one…
Neat. That amount of modularity allows for lots of configurations. I guess the motor is also robust. Have you done any maintenance on it, or did you get it rebuilt already?
The table is done (see above, maybe page 2?) and the arm is at Karmadon, will ship soon. At this stage the only arms i use that are pains to swich cartridges on are the Infinity Black Widow and the Schroeder Reference, but each has found a great cartridge match, so i do my OCD arm/headshell/cartridge games on the SME, the Signet xk50 (interchangeable arm wands) and the Bokrand. The Grado and Gray both use sleds, and it isn’t too difficult. My vtf scale gets used a lot…
Incredible, you have tens of configurations available and a few already selected. How much time did it take you to master your setups?
Ha! I’ve not mastered anything other than spending money i don’t have! But for the MA 3002 on the Signet xk150 (my current fave combo), it was a good 4 hours of fun, with about 6 albums i love and some feickedt and wally tools.
i just ordered a 16” wood arm from Thailand handmade by Mr. Rang. You can see it at the Lenco Heaven site. It’s designed for the Zu Denon DL103r, but i will try it with a few other possibilities: i’m still looking for an arm/home for a Supex 900 Super, an Ortofon M20ml super, and my secret fave, the Empire 880p.
It still amazes me (in a positive way) how legendary the Denon DL103r got. So many mods available. Are you trying it also? If so, why Zu's edition?
Since Jelco closed shop and SME stopped selling OEM the market for tonearms took a big hit. Other good tonearms that come to my mind are Glanz, and Kuzma.
The Zu goes through a testing process to identify the best performing stock Denons, then removes the body, and pots the motor in an aluminum (6061-T6) body. The difference between the Zu and the regular is quite noticeable: quieter, and clearer, which I attribute to the properties of the epoxy potting and the body. It isn't an Allaerts, but it does almost everything much better than most. I prefer it to the Koetsu Rosewood I used to own, but use it less than a Micro Acoustics 3002 with sapphire cantilever and fritz geiger stylus on a Signet xk 50 arm. So we'll see how the Zu does on the Gray. At this point, I've collected great cartridges, and some great arms, and the fun is in getting the pairing right.
Yes, SME really bummed me out, but I also really like working with Alfred Kayser at SME Tonearms in Canada. He can always get me what I want...and always makes me laugh. He's got great stories (and the best collection of uber-classic tales and arms i've ever seen).
My next arm will be the SUPATRAC Blackbird. Stunning results reported on Lenco Heaven by a number of users, First new idea in bearings since Frank Schroeder.
Thank you for explaining Zu's methodology. It sounds promising. I'll keep that in mind.
The SUPATRAC Blackbird really looks innovative, that will be a nice collection piece even because of the technology.
That's lots of things going on at the same time? What phono do you use? How many inputs?
I'm using an EAT E-Glo Petit, which is one of the great bargains in audio (along with all the vintage MM and MI cartridges I use. I'm basically a bargain-hunter at heart. Or I'm just stingy). Its flexibility is astounding, and I really like being able to try different loading on my MM cartridges. Turns out that many of them sound much better at a higher loading than 47kH. It has only one set of inputs (RCA) but I don't mind getting behind the equipment when I change arms.
Eventually I'd like to get a couple of Dave Slagle's masterpieces, but at the moment my tastes are way beyond my wallet.
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