The marvellous Martin Logan CLX ART – is definitely a work of “ART”
- Thread starter Big Dog RJ
- Start date
Hey Harlequin and Brad,
Trust all is going well with your CLX's.
I was just wondering about these bass switches that you're trying to experiment with; after a superb audition of the Ethos and Montis series just yesterday. Unlike the Theos, where bass cannot be adjusted / passive- The Ethos and upwards allows the owner to adjust bass levels to better integrate with the room. Comparing directly with my Quads, there was an apparent mismatch in the bass integration. When I stepped back and had a look at the bass level setting, it was set around +4. I then told the dealer chappy to reduce this by all means, and he set it at default- zero. It was still too much! It didn't have that immediate responsiveness compared to Quads full range. I then further reduced it to -2 setting, and found the integration to be perfect to the music I was playing (Madeleine Peyroux- Standing on the roof top). The level of immediacy, tonal richness and energy of the performance was in full effect, and this was absolutely marvellous being driven with a Devaliet integrated combined with a PS Audio Dac.
Having experienced this, I also noticed two great factors for having bass level adjustments- 1. to better integrate with the room & 2. allows for finer settings to match the panel's responsiveness, which when dialled in correctly is simply superb. It not only sounds right but also brings more transparency to the panel's frequencies (beats Quad in all aspects).
My third assessment towards fine tuning this bass is that the CLX's don't allow the user to do this. It is not stated in the user manual as you pointed out, and it is very difficult/ tricky to get the top cover off to gain access to the crossover element. I was just thinking that perhaps ML made it this way where the default settings are set for a purpose, and making the top cover accessibility not an easy task. In which case, if the owner was allowed to make bass adjustments- then wouldn't ML have these level settings on the outside?
Another thing, I was thinking is that even if you do change these settings, is it really going to make any difference at all? To what level/extent are the improvements? And overall what benefit was achieved.
My initial experience with the CLX's, I found them to be very linear and neutral, and bass is not apparent all the time or right throughout the musical passage. Bass will be delivered when it is called for, according to the music. Therefore, to me the CLX remains the most uncoloured speaker I have ever heard to date. Even my Quads have deeper bass and it is there during most musical passages. I would have preferred if Quad had bass level controls similar to the ML hybrids but then that would be a totally different design and not FR.
So, to get to my final point- is there a need for you to adjust these switches? Personally, I wouldn't touch them simply because ML does not address it anywhere...
Anyway, I guess curiosity is always a human tendency to success, I just want to know if adjusting these switches was a successful event or not.
Cheers, RJ
Trust all is going well with your CLX's.
I was just wondering about these bass switches that you're trying to experiment with; after a superb audition of the Ethos and Montis series just yesterday. Unlike the Theos, where bass cannot be adjusted / passive- The Ethos and upwards allows the owner to adjust bass levels to better integrate with the room. Comparing directly with my Quads, there was an apparent mismatch in the bass integration. When I stepped back and had a look at the bass level setting, it was set around +4. I then told the dealer chappy to reduce this by all means, and he set it at default- zero. It was still too much! It didn't have that immediate responsiveness compared to Quads full range. I then further reduced it to -2 setting, and found the integration to be perfect to the music I was playing (Madeleine Peyroux- Standing on the roof top). The level of immediacy, tonal richness and energy of the performance was in full effect, and this was absolutely marvellous being driven with a Devaliet integrated combined with a PS Audio Dac.
Having experienced this, I also noticed two great factors for having bass level adjustments- 1. to better integrate with the room & 2. allows for finer settings to match the panel's responsiveness, which when dialled in correctly is simply superb. It not only sounds right but also brings more transparency to the panel's frequencies (beats Quad in all aspects).
My third assessment towards fine tuning this bass is that the CLX's don't allow the user to do this. It is not stated in the user manual as you pointed out, and it is very difficult/ tricky to get the top cover off to gain access to the crossover element. I was just thinking that perhaps ML made it this way where the default settings are set for a purpose, and making the top cover accessibility not an easy task. In which case, if the owner was allowed to make bass adjustments- then wouldn't ML have these level settings on the outside?
Another thing, I was thinking is that even if you do change these settings, is it really going to make any difference at all? To what level/extent are the improvements? And overall what benefit was achieved.
My initial experience with the CLX's, I found them to be very linear and neutral, and bass is not apparent all the time or right throughout the musical passage. Bass will be delivered when it is called for, according to the music. Therefore, to me the CLX remains the most uncoloured speaker I have ever heard to date. Even my Quads have deeper bass and it is there during most musical passages. I would have preferred if Quad had bass level controls similar to the ML hybrids but then that would be a totally different design and not FR.
So, to get to my final point- is there a need for you to adjust these switches? Personally, I wouldn't touch them simply because ML does not address it anywhere...
Anyway, I guess curiosity is always a human tendency to success, I just want to know if adjusting these switches was a successful event or not.
Cheers, RJ
Huzzzzah, response from Tech Support and as I suspected.
Switch closest to the rear of the box for 1dB , both switched for 2dB boost, I now have the CLX's recharging on the 2dB setting and shall run through my usual suspect test tracks over the weekend.
RJ.....Whilst the lack of disclosure on behalf of ML remains a mystery!?!?? Tech Support were quite comfortable with my proposed experimentation, I also sought clarification that opening the crossover box and performing such experimentation would not negate ones ML product warranty. You may be over thinking this one into a non existent conspiracy on ML's behalf.
Switch closest to the rear of the box for 1dB , both switched for 2dB boost, I now have the CLX's recharging on the 2dB setting and shall run through my usual suspect test tracks over the weekend.
RJ.....Whilst the lack of disclosure on behalf of ML remains a mystery!?!?? Tech Support were quite comfortable with my proposed experimentation, I also sought clarification that opening the crossover box and performing such experimentation would not negate ones ML product warranty. You may be over thinking this one into a non existent conspiracy on ML's behalf.
I received an email this morning stating the same. Did they send you the printed page? If so maybe you could cut and past is here for other to look at. I would but my Mac skills are very limited.
Thanks, I look forward to hearing your thoughts. I am out of town for the month so no listening test for a while.
Thanks, I look forward to hearing your thoughts. I am out of town for the month so no listening test for a while.
No media Brad, merely confirmation. I had a very brief listen before stepping out for the evening, most interesting indeed, base certainly re-enforced, however most noticable for me was an additional weight and dimension to vocals and midband in general, most promising.
The switches do bring some warmth and body to the sound and can be useful if the acoustic environment is relatively large or constructed such way that bass notes "escape" through the walls etc.
However I feel that the most coherent sound is with default setting. Please experiment to confirm your preference.
However I feel that the most coherent sound is with default setting. Please experiment to confirm your preference.
Just a quick note to Harlequin, Brad and other CLX users, Re to the mid-bass switches- did any of you try this and what were the results?
Were there any significant improvements? If so, in what area? Are we referring to more warmth in mid bass, tighter bottom end or just more speed and articulation, which is the hall mark of the CLX like no other.
MPS above has responded about this warmth factor, not sure what amplifiers are being used. I am also expecting these changes to concur with the type of power amp used, either SS or tubes would make a huge difference.
One thing for sure is with SS Pass labs (Class A) the CLX just sounds superb! Hence, I don't see any reasons for changing the settings but perhaps with tubes these variances would be more noticeable perhaps due to the natural and extensive overtones that tubes can provide.
Would be certainly interesting to listen to the CLX being driven with tube amps. No one residing in this part of the planet with CLX's and tube power amps...? Please do contact, big dog very interested!
RJ
Were there any significant improvements? If so, in what area? Are we referring to more warmth in mid bass, tighter bottom end or just more speed and articulation, which is the hall mark of the CLX like no other.
MPS above has responded about this warmth factor, not sure what amplifiers are being used. I am also expecting these changes to concur with the type of power amp used, either SS or tubes would make a huge difference.
One thing for sure is with SS Pass labs (Class A) the CLX just sounds superb! Hence, I don't see any reasons for changing the settings but perhaps with tubes these variances would be more noticeable perhaps due to the natural and extensive overtones that tubes can provide.
Would be certainly interesting to listen to the CLX being driven with tube amps. No one residing in this part of the planet with CLX's and tube power amps...? Please do contact, big dog very interested!
RJ
Hey mate, understood your initial impressions of the bass switches, and the first changes you came across.
Just wanted to know if there have been any further improvements down the line since your first listening experiences and trials. If so, apart from additional weight & dimension to midband- do these result in a deeper soundstage/ more transient response/ more transparency in the midrange/ clearer vocals- please specify what other areas were promising?
Always good to learn from this system, and especially the CLX!
Cheers and trust you are having a good one, RJ
Apologies for this tardy response RJ, unfortunately I have been and still am away from my system therefore I have still only heard a handfull of tracks on setting #2. I should be in a position to experiment further in a couple of weeks time.
I can say that the midrange on vocals in mind bending with Sarah Vaughan's version of Black Coffee never sounding so harmonically dense and visceral.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lady-Sings-Blues-Various-Artists/dp/B00005V94O
I can say that the midrange on vocals in mind bending with Sarah Vaughan's version of Black Coffee never sounding so harmonically dense and visceral.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lady-Sings-Blues-Various-Artists/dp/B00005V94O
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Ah! yes nice one indeed. I can definitely imagine what you're experiencing with your CLX's reproducing Sarah V, must be outstanding!
In fact, I have two versions of one of her Albums, both on LP & SACD. Although the SACD is super quiet with a lot of dimension to her voice, especially the more "crisp" effect, the LP (bought used) delivers more frequency extension/depth and smoothness, allows me to relax more inspite of the surface noise and occasional pops... On the Martin Logan's Sarah V sounds so real, like an actual living breathing person, right in front of you in full dimension with an effortless level of playback (I didn't get this kind of realism on my Quads).
All those emotions in every type of music comes through, and is so enjoyable I cannot turn off the system even after a good several hours!
There has been no other speaker system (as yet...) that captures my attention and delivers so much emotion in the music it reproduces compared to the CLX.
I am not saying that the CLX is the best out there, infact there is nothing referred to as "best." It is more to deal with what can allow you to enjoy your favourite recordings to the fullest in the most natural way without those artificial enhancements.
Only CLX owners will know exactly what I am talking about, when it comes to sheer naturalness, total transparency and superb realism, they are just marvellous!
The Ethos are no where near the CLX but I am truly enjoying them unlike ever before! I have never owned a system like this before that delivers the kind of realism and naturalness recorded music has to offer, and I must thank Kostas for that, and of course Martin Logan. Simply remarkable for what they deliver and the price, far out! I have spent so much "unnecessary" funds on massive monoblocks and large stats & dynamic driver types, what a waste. With that kind of money I could have owned several pairs of CLX's, it just send me to tears...
Now I ask myself what was I trying to achieve? and none of those previous systems gave me this kind of "emotion in sound reproduction."
Your experiment with those switches sounds promising so far, trust it will continue to deliver what you're after. I am sure at the end of the day the CLX's will present the overall benefits of those switches after they settle in and you are able to spend more time identifying their traits. One thing for sure is, with this level of transparency it is quite easy to tell the differences and make those required adjustments.
I remember with my other systems, changing wires, cables, power cords, interconnects- was not an easy task to identify, and if any, they were only subtle. But with Martin Logan panels these changes are very apparent! They come out right at you. I can easily assess what's positive or negative, without having to spend a considerable amount of time trying to figure out whether anything good is happening....
All the best mate and cheers to CLX! magnificent speakers.
RJ
In fact, I have two versions of one of her Albums, both on LP & SACD. Although the SACD is super quiet with a lot of dimension to her voice, especially the more "crisp" effect, the LP (bought used) delivers more frequency extension/depth and smoothness, allows me to relax more inspite of the surface noise and occasional pops... On the Martin Logan's Sarah V sounds so real, like an actual living breathing person, right in front of you in full dimension with an effortless level of playback (I didn't get this kind of realism on my Quads).
All those emotions in every type of music comes through, and is so enjoyable I cannot turn off the system even after a good several hours!
There has been no other speaker system (as yet...) that captures my attention and delivers so much emotion in the music it reproduces compared to the CLX.
I am not saying that the CLX is the best out there, infact there is nothing referred to as "best." It is more to deal with what can allow you to enjoy your favourite recordings to the fullest in the most natural way without those artificial enhancements.
Only CLX owners will know exactly what I am talking about, when it comes to sheer naturalness, total transparency and superb realism, they are just marvellous!
The Ethos are no where near the CLX but I am truly enjoying them unlike ever before! I have never owned a system like this before that delivers the kind of realism and naturalness recorded music has to offer, and I must thank Kostas for that, and of course Martin Logan. Simply remarkable for what they deliver and the price, far out! I have spent so much "unnecessary" funds on massive monoblocks and large stats & dynamic driver types, what a waste. With that kind of money I could have owned several pairs of CLX's, it just send me to tears...
Now I ask myself what was I trying to achieve? and none of those previous systems gave me this kind of "emotion in sound reproduction."
Your experiment with those switches sounds promising so far, trust it will continue to deliver what you're after. I am sure at the end of the day the CLX's will present the overall benefits of those switches after they settle in and you are able to spend more time identifying their traits. One thing for sure is, with this level of transparency it is quite easy to tell the differences and make those required adjustments.
I remember with my other systems, changing wires, cables, power cords, interconnects- was not an easy task to identify, and if any, they were only subtle. But with Martin Logan panels these changes are very apparent! They come out right at you. I can easily assess what's positive or negative, without having to spend a considerable amount of time trying to figure out whether anything good is happening....
All the best mate and cheers to CLX! magnificent speakers.
RJ
Pleased to read that your Ethos are delivering for you RJ, Regarding the CLX switcheroo I did play a couple of base dense tracks where the #2 setting was a little overblown, I suspect that when I find the time that #1 setting might well prove to be the sweet spot.
Hiya
I have CLX driven by tubes and lamm
I have experimented with the switches and yes they do make a difference
I am in Canberra"......
If I may inquire, did you have a preference setting for particular genres of music, and what setting have you settled upon running ?
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Sorry for not responding sooner Big Dog. I have not had time to try the changes with the mid/bass switch.
We are adding on to the house adjacent to my listening room. My equipment is all covered from possible dust from pounding on the existing house. The good news is I will have dedicated AC to offset the high heat from all the tubes in my system. The calculations I did came up with 1 Ton of cooling just to offset the tube heat to say nothing of body heat and environmental concerns.
Once up and running again I will try it and report back.
Brad
We are adding on to the house adjacent to my listening room. My equipment is all covered from possible dust from pounding on the existing house. The good news is I will have dedicated AC to offset the high heat from all the tubes in my system. The calculations I did came up with 1 Ton of cooling just to offset the tube heat to say nothing of body heat and environmental concerns.
Once up and running again I will try it and report back.
Brad
No worries Brad, understood the heat factor mate.
Back in the tropics, whenever I had to bias the Manley's, I would either stick my head in the fridge for a while and then try to bias without any clothes on. This didn't go down too well, since people around the house thought I was just released from the asylum, and it's kind of hard to hold the multi-meter and bias without sweating into the tubes... So I had to take the monoblocks to my techies just for biasing. What a pain in the capital Butt was that. Each time I had to take time off work just to attend to this. You've got far more than 16 tubes per amp, so I guess that Air con will definitely help, no doubt!
Look forward to your experiences later then.
Cheers, RJ
Back in the tropics, whenever I had to bias the Manley's, I would either stick my head in the fridge for a while and then try to bias without any clothes on. This didn't go down too well, since people around the house thought I was just released from the asylum, and it's kind of hard to hold the multi-meter and bias without sweating into the tubes... So I had to take the monoblocks to my techies just for biasing. What a pain in the capital Butt was that. Each time I had to take time off work just to attend to this. You've got far more than 16 tubes per amp, so I guess that Air con will definitely help, no doubt!
Look forward to your experiences later then.
Cheers, RJ
CLX with valve power amps
G'day Awsmone,
I just sent you a pm, trust you received it...
I am eager to hear a CLX system driven with valve power amps, and for that matter I am very impressed with CJ's ARTsa (in triode config with EL34's). This is my reference component in valve amplification and just sounds superb! Rated at 70w instead of the KT120's, which pushes it upto 140w, the EL34's are the most musical sounding to me and deliver that emotional experience I was looking for, which I am now enjoying on my humble CAV45 with the Ethos, absolutely marvellous!
The drive from Melbourne to Canberra is quite a drive, I don't think the "good wife" would allow me to drive all that way for audio listening, unless it was something where the family would benefit from... I have to play it cool now, since she is on the look out for any extra expenditure on the system. I think I saw her installing some camera's recently in the living room, just to ensure I haven't added any further components in stealth mode. I also feel whenever I am at my PC or trying to shuffle the accounts online, someone is watching, could be her! my golly I better log off.
Till then, take it easy maties and enjoy your ML's, they are simply the best money can buy within various budgets, and still enjoy to the highest level without feeling inadequate compared to lofty systems, I sincerely think so.
Cheers, RJ
G'day Awsmone,
I just sent you a pm, trust you received it...
I am eager to hear a CLX system driven with valve power amps, and for that matter I am very impressed with CJ's ARTsa (in triode config with EL34's). This is my reference component in valve amplification and just sounds superb! Rated at 70w instead of the KT120's, which pushes it upto 140w, the EL34's are the most musical sounding to me and deliver that emotional experience I was looking for, which I am now enjoying on my humble CAV45 with the Ethos, absolutely marvellous!
The drive from Melbourne to Canberra is quite a drive, I don't think the "good wife" would allow me to drive all that way for audio listening, unless it was something where the family would benefit from... I have to play it cool now, since she is on the look out for any extra expenditure on the system. I think I saw her installing some camera's recently in the living room, just to ensure I haven't added any further components in stealth mode. I also feel whenever I am at my PC or trying to shuffle the accounts online, someone is watching, could be her! my golly I better log off.
Till then, take it easy maties and enjoy your ML's, they are simply the best money can buy within various budgets, and still enjoy to the highest level without feeling inadequate compared to lofty systems, I sincerely think so.
Cheers, RJ
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