Roger, sorry, so what are you recommending? Not clear from your sentence. The BF 210 or 212, and these are much better than the descent, I assume. For me the 80 to 200 or whatever the region, where the baritone's voice is, and where tympani and bass drum strike, is very important. When your Subs are off is this absent, and when BF subs are on, is this present?
The marvellous Martin Logan CLX ART – is definitely a work of “ART”
- Thread starter Big Dog RJ
- Start date
Kedar, For my part I find with several less base challenging genres of recordings that I prefer to run sans Descent I as I feel the mids and upper on the panel's to have an additional quality where those regions are more prevalent in the recording I have however measured down to 48/9 in my own room, the base retaining pretty good presence, tonality and very fast.
Needless to say that for grand scale music pluming the depths the new BF series are pretty seamless with great depth of tone, the built in ML room correction coming into play here.
Needless to say that for grand scale music pluming the depths the new BF series are pretty seamless with great depth of tone, the built in ML room correction coming into play here.
Wow, thanks for all of the great comments; and Kedar's thoughts, we both learned a lot last week, esp the importance of single area's of the whole, i.e in this case the Allnic psu rectifier. I knew it was influential, and have a collection of approx 6 options, but the KR 5U4G is the real tube for this piece, it transforms it. Needless to say, I have a KR Lampi Anniversary (white base) installed since yesterday. As Ked has said, image density has flourished, with real 3d pop to the stage. Rachmaninov's Symphonic Dances has now such scale it's almost scary. My friend has CLX + subs, full ARC etc, and that is really something else. ML's can be real Jekyll & Hyde speakers in some ways, but really they only tell the listener that something in the set up is wrong, not that they are wrong.
This was the first time I had a Lampizator (Kedar's GG) in the system, and it is extremely impressive; I can only imagine what the Pacific could bring. Bear in mind actually, that we (rather embarassingly) used a 15 year old £99 panasonic dvd player as transport that day as my MBL and Esoteric are elsewhere at the moment, again some learning!
This was the first time I had a Lampizator (Kedar's GG) in the system, and it is extremely impressive; I can only imagine what the Pacific could bring. Bear in mind actually, that we (rather embarassingly) used a 15 year old £99 panasonic dvd player as transport that day as my MBL and Esoteric are elsewhere at the moment, again some learning!
Hi, yes I did spend a little time with 13A, but not the 15A; they were in a local acquaintance's home (I don't think the dealer carries these two models yet) - ML has improved on their designs quite a bit, and they are very good speakers. The CLX with the Descent subs that I also heard at the dealer made great sound, but not what I have. The CLX without subs is just not tolerable to me, because I listen to full orchestral, though nice with vocal and midrangy music. Of all the MLs I've heard to date - including mine, Ron's Pordigy's, the older Monolith, the CLX, 13A, Spires, Summit, Summit X, and perhaps one or two more - I would say the CLX/subs is probably the best of them all.
While I can understand that talking about modified equipment does not help anyone but a few, it is nonetheless another data point, and I hope somewhat intriguing
Greetings maties from down unda...
Well reading the subsequent posts, I must say that obviously everyone has different tastes and preferences, which we must all respect and hopefully learn from.
One new thing I learned reading these posts is that some don't even like to sit in a particular spot and listen to music, they get bored... Wow! never came across that type of character. In which case, perhaps no system would ever meet your expectations or something such as a merry-go-round multi-channel sort of set up would be best, certainly beats me.
When someone says that they get bored, to me that simply means they are not listening to the music, rather the system. And not only is the musicality lacking but also the system cannot produce what sort of sound they're after, again in which case no perfect system exists. I think the best in this case is to design your own mate.
When I also hear statements made such as "killer bass" and killer this and blown out of the park and so on... and the best they had ever heard until some tweak was used, also means they had not heard the best as yet... in which case there is still room for improvement and we can all certainly learn by being patient without jumping the gun...
The Melbourne Int'l hifi show is heading this way during Nov 3rd-5th. I will finally be there for once after nearly 20 years of absence, as I felt most of these shows simply didn't do justice to good quality sound. They were rather for awareness building not really decision making.
Another interesting thing I have come across is the sound of Apogee's. These are old dinosaurs and no longer in production. There are now new groups of enthusiasts re-building Apogee ribbons, and coming up with better ribbon elements, making the panels stronger and more tolerable to higher levels. However, these are not original designs and will never replace the original legendary sound of Apgoee's such as the Diva's, Studio Grands or the FR Apogee's.
I finally did get a chance to listen to the re-built Duetta signatures coming out from QLD which is upstate from wear we are. Very nice I must say, and very open and superb weight to all frequencies. However, I still prefer the CLX's, that's just my preference and doesn't mean that the CLX is the best, it's just the ultimate listening experience for me.
Respect to all that have various systems and have discovered new improvements with upgraded tweaks etc, good on you! And do enjoy the music.
As for me, I look for openness, natural tones, extended airy highs, fast & tight bass to capture most low note recordings, smooth open palpable midrange, and a sort of sound that allows me to relax and listen for endless hours and not get bored... be immersed in the sound and most of the music- that my friends is the most simplest system to have, but very hard to achieve because many of us still compare it to lacking in some areas... who cares!
In a realistic world, with realistic budgets- acquiring a system with all the right components, keeping in mind other important priorities (family, home & kids education), if the system put together has reached a level of synergy, and effortlessly delivers what your ears are fond of, that's about all that matters to me.
Cheers, RJ
Well reading the subsequent posts, I must say that obviously everyone has different tastes and preferences, which we must all respect and hopefully learn from.
One new thing I learned reading these posts is that some don't even like to sit in a particular spot and listen to music, they get bored... Wow! never came across that type of character. In which case, perhaps no system would ever meet your expectations or something such as a merry-go-round multi-channel sort of set up would be best, certainly beats me.
When someone says that they get bored, to me that simply means they are not listening to the music, rather the system. And not only is the musicality lacking but also the system cannot produce what sort of sound they're after, again in which case no perfect system exists. I think the best in this case is to design your own mate.
When I also hear statements made such as "killer bass" and killer this and blown out of the park and so on... and the best they had ever heard until some tweak was used, also means they had not heard the best as yet... in which case there is still room for improvement and we can all certainly learn by being patient without jumping the gun...
The Melbourne Int'l hifi show is heading this way during Nov 3rd-5th. I will finally be there for once after nearly 20 years of absence, as I felt most of these shows simply didn't do justice to good quality sound. They were rather for awareness building not really decision making.
Another interesting thing I have come across is the sound of Apogee's. These are old dinosaurs and no longer in production. There are now new groups of enthusiasts re-building Apogee ribbons, and coming up with better ribbon elements, making the panels stronger and more tolerable to higher levels. However, these are not original designs and will never replace the original legendary sound of Apgoee's such as the Diva's, Studio Grands or the FR Apogee's.
I finally did get a chance to listen to the re-built Duetta signatures coming out from QLD which is upstate from wear we are. Very nice I must say, and very open and superb weight to all frequencies. However, I still prefer the CLX's, that's just my preference and doesn't mean that the CLX is the best, it's just the ultimate listening experience for me.
Respect to all that have various systems and have discovered new improvements with upgraded tweaks etc, good on you! And do enjoy the music.
As for me, I look for openness, natural tones, extended airy highs, fast & tight bass to capture most low note recordings, smooth open palpable midrange, and a sort of sound that allows me to relax and listen for endless hours and not get bored... be immersed in the sound and most of the music- that my friends is the most simplest system to have, but very hard to achieve because many of us still compare it to lacking in some areas... who cares!
In a realistic world, with realistic budgets- acquiring a system with all the right components, keeping in mind other important priorities (family, home & kids education), if the system put together has reached a level of synergy, and effortlessly delivers what your ears are fond of, that's about all that matters to me.
Cheers, RJ
Greeeting Ked and Ron
I agree that naturally there is an issue with the CLX in 100-200 region
I have measured this in room, and it’s a definite dip
In my case I am running 5 subwoofers and adjusted the bass panel crossover
The timpani, Drums and plucked double bass are outstanding
On Blow up, the drum roll at the end of aquamarine hits you in the chest
Also you need amps that love the impedance of the bass panels
This includes tubes, 211, el 34, and I am told Conrad Johnson
In solid state it seems to be less , I am told pass labs, though no personal experience
I use Goldmund which is great match and big el34 amps
I will try on my return to Europe the Lamm 1.2; but my issue with the lamms before was clipping in my largish room even the 2.2 I had before clipped
CLX set up is critical to get the bass coupled to the room, and normal speaker set up is all wrong for the CLX
Also the axis of the listener to the two panels to get the correct power factor between the mid panel and the bass panel
Since I put the CLX back into the system after 18 months
I have been shocked by the sound I am getting
I put this down to the Goldmund’s, better room positioning and the DA2
Just my 2 cents...
Having taken a sabbatical away from the world of High Fidelity audio I thought that I would resurrect this thread by way of touching base with the ML owners on the forum, in particular fellow CLX aficionado’s, Brad...Big Dog... microstrip...Kostas...awsmone
Roger.
Roger.
Awsmone moved to horns, Altec. He has quads though. Microstrip is Wilson XLF with soundlabs in some part of storage. Saw you navigating down the thread yesterday. Was thinking of greeting a fellow wammer but couldn't think of a wind up post. What kept you away
Welcome back Roger,
Nice to see you back, especially those who are passionate about stats!
Enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers , RJ
Still dragging Scheherazade around with you Ked ;0)
Oh.....An increasing and fundamental indifference to the Madness that is the quest for HiFidelity, coupled with the need to take a break From it all.
Thank you RJ, It was in part reading of your most recent exploits in your CLX journey and reading through this and your other thread that made me consider a come back...when I have time to pen a little more I would like to appraise Brad, Kpstas and yourself of my recent move from GAIA No1’s to Townshend Podium platforms....
Oh.....An increasing and fundamental indifference to the Madness that is the quest for HiFidelity, coupled with the need to take a break From it all.
Thank you RJ, It was in part reading of your most recent exploits in your CLX journey and reading through this and your other thread that made me consider a come back...when I have time to pen a little more I would like to appraise Brad, Kpstas and yourself of my recent move from GAIA No1’s to Townshend Podium platforms....
Ah! The move from Gaia's to Townsend podiums must be an interesting thing... let us know all about it.
Infact, I tried a few accessories before finalising on the Gaia II's, that seemed to work well. Not easy placing them under CLX's and having to lift back up... I wonder how you managed with placement on the Townsend platforms?
Enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ
Infact, I tried a few accessories before finalising on the Gaia II's, that seemed to work well. Not easy placing them under CLX's and having to lift back up... I wonder how you managed with placement on the Townsend platforms?
Enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ
Are you contemplating laying in a reserve set of panels RJ ?... I was all set to pull the trigger before a fork in the road of life took me in another direction for a while. For my part I am giving it some serious thought once again.
You mean a reserve set of Panels for the CLX's?
In which case over here, I've checked with the Aus importer and according to them, Anthem has plenty of spares... so nothing to really worry about. As you're probably aware, just after ML pulled out the last order for the CLX's (they were making only 7 more pairs), they wanted to stop with that and offer plenty of spares for their owners in case the need arises. The Aus importer also stocks a few Panels, so before anything is low on stock availability, they'll let us know. Not too many CLX's owners down unda... I guess it's easier for them to track down the required serial numbers if needed.
I will use the CLX's for long as I possibly can, that is after warranty service, parts required etc., to keep them going. However, if the time comes to a complete dead end then I'll slightly deviate towards refurbed Apogee's. They're doing pretty well since we have Graz based upstate. So not too far away.
Cheers mate, have a good one.
RJ
Still solidly in CLX camp.
Been traveling and didn't see resent posts. Internet is very sketchy.
As far as replacement panels. I'm 68 now with CLX being 3 years old. Short of a catastrophe I would think the panels will out live further deterioration of my hearing.
Given that, I would replace them short of starting again.
I bought a pair of Divas a number of years ago and was going to have them rebuilt by Graz guy Bill Thalman in NC. Kept them covered in my shop for 3 years and then decided I wasn't ready to invest $10,000 in them and not being sure I would be happy with them.
I sold them to someone in Venezuela.
Been traveling and didn't see resent posts. Internet is very sketchy.
As far as replacement panels. I'm 68 now with CLX being 3 years old. Short of a catastrophe I would think the panels will out live further deterioration of my hearing.
Given that, I would replace them short of starting again.
I bought a pair of Divas a number of years ago and was going to have them rebuilt by Graz guy Bill Thalman in NC. Kept them covered in my shop for 3 years and then decided I wasn't ready to invest $10,000 in them and not being sure I would be happy with them.
I sold them to someone in Venezuela.
That sounds about right!
Way back then... when we were moving out, I had to repair our Diva's back in hometown and over there every so called panel speaker expert were just guessing. It never sounded right after several attempts, at the end we shipped them all the way to Spore and finally was restored by a dedicated Apogee chap who knew about these things inside out. When we received the final invoice, plus shipping and handling charges, plus CIF (cost, insurance - freight) we nearly fell off our chairs! And so the story goes, it was promptly sold to one of our very own dealers. Still has them running with a full line up of Pass Labs XS300 series (dual chassis huge affair...). So whenever I get a chance to visit, which hasn't happened since this wonderful covid, it's a fun experience to be able to listen to these legendary ribbons fully rebuilt. Driven with PL XS300 amplifiers is something else!
During that time when I decided to close shop and sell off whatever, we still had a handful of our personal favourites; the CLS IIz's, Infinity IRS 1B, and of course the Quads. Just before heading off to Aus (down unda) two of my very close dealer mates, purchased the lot! CJ ART preamp, the Premier 8A monoblocks, and all three of those speaker systems. Of course I wasn't going to haul any of those to Aus, simply because the cost was outrageous, and so I arrived with nothing and started from scratch since 2004..
Visited so many Aus importers for some great gear and systems but nothing was quite like the Diva's nor the CLS, and so my quest continued... went through a few things, Jamos, Infinity's, Wilson's, Maggie's, Quads... and then Sept 2018 oh wow! There it was, the awesome CLX Art. I've never seen nor heard anything like it before. Glimpses of those very fine CLS tonality traits were there but this was a completely radical concept. Triple stators, dual Mylars, with a separate CLS panel dedicated to mids & highs, and top notch parts inside, plus those superior EI core trannys, with special metal alloys used in the framework, pure stainless steel heavy duty locking collars, and the list goes on... From that first note I knew straight away this is it! And never looked back.
I guess at the end of the day, it simply is a very personal thing, hence I may never be more happier with anything else, might as well just sit back and enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers Brad, I hear you!
Woofty woof! RJ
Way back then... when we were moving out, I had to repair our Diva's back in hometown and over there every so called panel speaker expert were just guessing. It never sounded right after several attempts, at the end we shipped them all the way to Spore and finally was restored by a dedicated Apogee chap who knew about these things inside out. When we received the final invoice, plus shipping and handling charges, plus CIF (cost, insurance - freight) we nearly fell off our chairs! And so the story goes, it was promptly sold to one of our very own dealers. Still has them running with a full line up of Pass Labs XS300 series (dual chassis huge affair...). So whenever I get a chance to visit, which hasn't happened since this wonderful covid, it's a fun experience to be able to listen to these legendary ribbons fully rebuilt. Driven with PL XS300 amplifiers is something else!
During that time when I decided to close shop and sell off whatever, we still had a handful of our personal favourites; the CLS IIz's, Infinity IRS 1B, and of course the Quads. Just before heading off to Aus (down unda) two of my very close dealer mates, purchased the lot! CJ ART preamp, the Premier 8A monoblocks, and all three of those speaker systems. Of course I wasn't going to haul any of those to Aus, simply because the cost was outrageous, and so I arrived with nothing and started from scratch since 2004..
Visited so many Aus importers for some great gear and systems but nothing was quite like the Diva's nor the CLS, and so my quest continued... went through a few things, Jamos, Infinity's, Wilson's, Maggie's, Quads... and then Sept 2018 oh wow! There it was, the awesome CLX Art. I've never seen nor heard anything like it before. Glimpses of those very fine CLS tonality traits were there but this was a completely radical concept. Triple stators, dual Mylars, with a separate CLS panel dedicated to mids & highs, and top notch parts inside, plus those superior EI core trannys, with special metal alloys used in the framework, pure stainless steel heavy duty locking collars, and the list goes on... From that first note I knew straight away this is it! And never looked back.
I guess at the end of the day, it simply is a very personal thing, hence I may never be more happier with anything else, might as well just sit back and enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers Brad, I hear you!
Woofty woof! RJ
