The State of High End Audio

[PeterA]

In your opinion, who specifically are some of these "guiding lights"?

Since Blizzard has not answered your question, I will suggest a couple of names: Nelson Pass and Alon Wolf. Perhaps some might consider them to be more High End than High Fidelity, but they have and continue to design products which both push the edge of technology and sound great. And I think their designs have influenced others so in that sense, they could be considered "guiding lights".

 

[Robh3606]

Greg Timbers is the guy who designed all of JBL's statement speakers over the past 20 years. He did the original Everest the K2 's current Everest the Array series and countless others L250 9800, 9900, 4367 and so on. Love the way his designs are voiced. His crossovers are simply elegant in their simplicity and function.

Rob

 

[Rodney Gold]

Offering one's vapourware commecial products to forum members under the guise of "advice" is , IMHO , just not on.

 

[Blizzard]

Blizzard, could you describe the last time you heard a good turntable and what was in the rest of the system, especially the tonearm and cartridge? And, of even more interest to me, could you describe the conditions under which you last did a direct comparison between an analog and a digital front end? How did they sound different to you? What was the last classical concert that you attended?

These are just some of the kinds of experiences some of the audiophiles on this forum have had. If you have done those things recently, then we share some similar experiences. If not, that is fine and not a big deal, as far as I am concerned, however, it would indicate that you have had different experiences from many members here. Also, not necessarily a bad thing.

We all make many assumptions about each other. From my questions above, you may think I am presuming something about you. Many consider me to be a subjectivist and because I have a turntable based system and no digital, some think I have no interest in fidelity, measurements or accurate sound. I contend that I am interested in all three, though it may not appear that way based on the types of discussions I have on this forum. So, many of us are susceptible to jumping to conclusions about others and then forming judgements. It may not be fair.

I am pleased to learn that you value actual listening to help form opinions about gear and that you care equally about the subjective and objective aspects of this hobby. I would not have thought that about you from reading your many posts. I am sorry for having jumped to that conclusion.

This was my last turntable.



But then around 4 years of age, a great new technology called CD's emerged on the scene. This is when I ditched the turntable. Now 34 years later, we have advanced so far in digital, yet it's only just a new beginning. Because digital is the future of audio. Digital and class D are going to dominate the high end world soon.

As far as live music, I often sing in the shower.


When I started building speakers 21 years ago, the only measurement tools I had were a Radio shack SPL meter and my ears. Yet I managed to make them sound better than many commercial offerings at the stores. So I wouldn't be so quick to think I don't know what good audio sounds like.

 

[Blizzard]

Sounds like someone needs to get over their self.

It just goes to show, this "toxic environment" is sure attracting lots of awesome, open minded people to the forum. Most of those views are from non members.

 

[Blizzard]

Umm, I agree but their are a few doing this! Dealers waxing on about their products should have its own sub forum. Nothing wrong with them doing it, it can be useful just should be in its own section imo.

Spaz is back on the scene!

 

[Blizzard]

Well it was getting all very spazmoid in here, only a brief incursion as I know no one understands a single thread of what I say on any meaningful level.

It's entertaining reading you all in various states of restraint, you all seem to be passing each other by in the dead of night. Why don't you get back to talking about your love of music, share this in the music threads... Not just photos actually share how the music makes you feel and what you love about the musicianship. Non of you do this!

Then talk about the equipment you use and how it makes you able to feel the above and then discuss the technical reasons you believe this is happening along with ideas to help others achieve this.

Non of this is going on here!

Why?!

Now that's a question worth 60 pages and one well worth thinkin about... But you most likely won't.

 

[Rodney Gold]

Well it was getting all very spazmoid in here, only a brief incursion as I know no one understands a single thread of what I say on any meaningful level.

It's entertaining reading you all in various states of restraint, you all seem to be passing each other by in the dead of night. Why don't you get back to talking about your love of music, share this in the music threads... Not just photos actually share how the music makes you feel and what you love about the musicianship. Non of you do this!

Then talk about the equipment you use and how it makes you able to feel the above and then discuss the technical reasons you believe this is happening along with ideas to help others achieve this.

Non of this is going on here!

Why?!

Now that's a question worth 60 pages and one well worth thinking about... But you most likely won't.

cos the eargasm you have when the music moves you is personal and private...valid to YOU only
I don't want a blow by blow account of someone else's epiphany...

 

[bonzo75]

It just goes to show, this "toxic environment" is sure attracting lots of awesome, open minded people to the forum. Most of those views are from non members.

Ever wondered why existing forum members don't visit much?

 

[Blizzard]

Ever wondered why existing forum members don't visit much?

Lots of cool existing visitors around. At least 2 signed up to chat about my streamer today. But I have noticed the whining has lightened up a bit, is there some people missing?

 

[Rodney Gold]

Well, ultimately the purpose of the gear is to bring you closer to the music .. but the extrapolation of the experience of listening to it assumes you have the same state of mind as the listener..its far easier to quantify the difference a component makes in a particular system as the reader has some sort of reference
IE what the old thing sounded like , vs what the new thing sounds like..
The rapture is not really quantifiable..meaningful to the listener and not so to the reader...we are merely voyeurs
Anyway , we have no reference as to the recording..so it's all subjective posturing ...

 

[Rodney Gold]

Hmmm.. like 2 guys comparing their experiences with the same woman ? will it be valid for the 3rd guy?

 

[bonzo75]

Why don't you get back to talking about your love of music, share this in the music threads... Not just photos actually share how the music makes you feel and what you love about the musicianship. Non of you do this!

Then talk about the equipment you use and how it makes you able to feel the above and then discuss the technical reasons you believe this is happening along with ideas to help others achieve this.

Non of this is going on here!

Why?!

Now that's a question worth 60 pages and one well worth thinking about... But you most likely won't.

That is because this is a gear forum. There are some sub-forums in here to discuss music. This is a forum where people want to know which amp and which speakers do what.

Music to me is a different hobby, with some overlap.

I went to 5 live concerts at Barbican since last Sunday (10th), including two by Simon Rattle. http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...for-the-season&p=372003&viewfull=1#post372003

Feel free to contribute to my music concerts thread. http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...for-the-season&p=333161&viewfull=1#post333161

 

[Rodney Gold]

I dunno how to describe adequately how the music moves me..it just does..never analysed it much...must be the Vivids

 

[bonzo75]

Missed the point. Again.

Oh I checked out your thread, apart from a brief chat about interesting differences between concert venues it's of little musical merrit imo. Just a place for you to show off, and garner envy imo.
Like I said in my post ' of little use other than to the author ' the interaction it's inspiring proves this.
Shame it could of been great.

That is because You can't relate to any of the music in there.

 

[PeterA]

You could of posted in a way that is inclusive and involving, inspiring even but you don't.

Spazmatron, Here is an account which is, imo, both passionate and informative. The Director of Archives at the Vienna State Opera told me after reading it that its author knows how to write about the sound of music and its reproduction. Post #92:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?12853-Sublime-Sound/page10

 

[Gregadd]

It just goes to show, this "toxic environment" is sure attracting lots of awesome, open minded people to the forum. Most of those views are from non members.

Non -members are not allowed to post.

We might disagree as to who they are. There are some awesome open minded people here.
.

 

[FrantzM]

Labeling the WBF environment as "toxic" is an exaggeration. It is good to have dissent that is what forums are for. You disagree , you tune out the person or use the ignore button or avoid his/her threads ... What is the big deal?
On that many posts are directed to Blizzard (Mike).. I have learn quite a lot from him and his spirit should be commended.. True he, Blizzard is at times (Often ? ) overbearing ( Sorry Pal) but do take the good and reject the bad . Loathe him if you want but do admit that he comes up with fresh ideas and provide a lot of help to us, that it willbe or already are a dealer or manufacturer is his ways to market his wares a different cringe-worthy way but his way and so far many his ideas are quite interesting.. Presently listening with some irritation to DSD-fied PCM and it sounds good .. better than I would like it too so far it seems better than straight-PCM.. euphonic ? Well.. maybe but os far interesting and it is coming from a lowly $499 DAC/headphones/amp Phone charger which does all known form of DSD iFi iDSD micro something .. so a little bit of praise or maybe experimentation would lighten the mood. On that I have learned a lot more from contentious threads than from "congrats" ones. I am willing to bet it is the same for the vast majority here.
Now getting back to the scheduled discussion ...

Whether we want to admit or not we want to share ... something, else we wouldn't be posting on a Forum. A public , open one at that. We must however be willing to learn from others and that is difficult for many.
The question about the Sate of High End Audio which brought this thread was asked in all seriousness. There is a growing disconnect between the faithful reproduction of what is in the medium and people idea of what sounds good. And in the absence of clear metric many have revered to more expensive = better. And that is the most visible path taken by the industry. However loud we claim of progress many seriously old systems or components manage to elicit a torrent of admiration from many who have heard them (Ddk horns and TT come to mind) .. FM Acoustics products do not change for decades and yet could well be the most prized items in all High End ... Burmester doesn't change either so I ask .. Where is the progress? I do believe there has been progress in speakers and in digital it is too rapid to even (from my point of view) considering spending more than $5k on a DAC but elsewhere, electronics in particular .. variations on a theme with one constant : Prices go up by the day...

 

[Rodney Gold]

I don't analyse the music..Im too busy enjoying it and letting it wash over me..I'm not a music reviewer able to write prose and verse about it and to be frank , couldn't be bothered to either.

If that makes me a philistine dolt ..so be it

 

[Gregadd]

I don't analyse the music..Im too busy enjoying it and letting it wash over me..I'm not a music reviewer able to write prose and verse about it and to be frank , couldn't be bothered to either.

If that makes me a philistine dolt ..so be it

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