The State of High End Audio

[Gregadd]

Umm... You missed the point

On the upside all the antagonist have fallen into a coma after getting one tenth the way through your post so I guess that solves that problem!

So you done well but not for the reason you thought

My sentiment exactly. Lead by example not by word.

 

[spazmatron]

It will be here for many years for folks who desire to read it over and over again. You can read it 100 times, and each time you read it, you will learn something new. Your opinion of it will change with each time it's read, and after about 30-40 times, you'll realize that you would have changed your knee-jerk initial response to it, had you been at the state of mind you will be at that point right now.

No.
You continue to miss the point but that's ok.. It's kind of amusing.

The theory of how we could be or should be is great, it discounts how we got here in the first place and assumes our base nature is a vice. This is a naive mistake.

I will ask you two simple questions

What was the Internet created for?

What have been the most influential catalysts for surgical advance?

 

[Blizzard]

No.
You continue to miss the point but that's ok.. It's kind of amusing.

The theory of how we could be or should be is great, it discounts how we got here in the first place and assumes our base nature is a vice. This is a naive mistake.

I will ask you two simple questions

What was the Internet created for?

What have been the most influential catalysts for surgical advance?

If you want to understand a problem, you must look at the root cause. If I have a headache, I can run to the medicine cabinet and grab a bottle of Advil , and gobble down a bunch of pills, or I can grab a glass and drink a litre or 2 of water, because I know that 90% of headaches are caused from dehydration. But without that knowledge I wouldn't had known that in todays world with so many misconceptions.

What I see around here is people arguing about nonsense that has nothing at all to do with audio, but 100% due to the root cause. So why even waste time and energy focusing on the symptom, when we already know the cause?

This would be like smashing out the warning light in your car that says low oil to fix the problem, rather than topping it off with more oil.

 

[zztop7]

Honda brain surgery

What have been the most influential catalysts for surgical advance?

Eyeglasses, electric light bulbs, washing hands, sterile environment.

As for the advancement of brain sugery: the Honda motorcycle. During the late 1960s and 1970s in the United States there was an explosion of small, medium, and large cc. Honda motorcycles sold. Neurosurgeons never had the opportunity to experiment on live human brains. Now, for the first time, they had every conceivable type of damage to the human head to try to fix.

I am not picking on Honda; they were the first to saturate the market. I worked in a Honda motorcycle dealership and saw the carnage. After that I worked in a major hospital with an extremely busy emergency room.

zz.

 

[PeterA]

Mod: your right to their privacy stops at the line where respect and cordial treatment of the other party is concerned. Not only are those PMs not private, we highly encourage members to report such posts that clearly violate our TOS. So any thought you had of sending nastygrams and then sit back and enjoy such protection is yours, not reality.

As I said, we routinely see reported PMs. I have seen your PMs for example that were sent to others. We are not here to protect your improper conduct in PMs.


This is what you should know. And not just about me, but others who can report and post the same in public. If not here, then elsewhere.

Learn to conduct yourself in a professional manner. Do not take advantage of any expectation of privacy to violate this important principle.



Both of you sit here with no sanction and reckless freedom to take shots at this site founder. So please don't complain about state of WBF. State of WBF is allowing you to do this. Pretty sure no other forum does.

Amir, I think the issue is their right to their privacy, not my right to their privacy. I have not thought of sending "nastygrams" (rather funny BTW) and then sitting back to enjoy some protection. I simply assumed a level of trust between the forum members when it came to sending private communications, but I have seen that that trust has been broken. I have never sent you a Private Message, and I now have no intention of doing so as you seem to prefer public communication.

I am curious if the other three moderators think it is appropriate to share Private Messages on public threads. I have not seem any of them post one.

You are inferring improper conduct in my PMs. I have sent a few PMs to fellow members who I consider to be friends. If there is anything improper about them, I would have hoped they would have let me know in a response. This is the first I have ever heard of any improper conduct, from anyone. If I deserve to be sanctioned, please provide a reason and sanction me. I am here to learn, and that would serve as a lesson. If you would like me to leave the forum or do not think I have anything of value to contribute, please let me know.

And I would still appreciate an explanation of why you asked me to take an iPhone app SPL reading of my listening room only to then tell me it is useless and of no value. I feel somewhat manipulated by that exchange and I am still a bit confused by your request for me to do so. I acted in good faith with an interest in learning something from you.

 

[esldude]

Amir, I think the issue is their right to their privacy, not my right to their privacy. I have not thought of sending "nastygrams" (rather funny BTW) and then sitting back to enjoy some protection. I simply assumed a level of trust between the forum members when it came to sending private communications, but I have seen that that trust has been broken. I have never sent you a Private Message, and I now have no intention of doing so as you seem to prefer public communication.

I am curious if the other three moderators think it is appropriate to share Private Messages on public threads. I have not seem any of them post one.

You are inferring improper conduct in my PMs. I have sent a few PMs to fellow members who I consider to be friends. If there is anything improper about them, I would have hoped they would have let me know in a response. This is the first I have ever heard of any improper conduct, from anyone. If I deserve to be sanctioned, please provide a reason and sanction me. I am here to learn, and that would serve as a lesson. If you would like me to leave the forum or do not think I have anything of value to contribute, please let me know.

And I would still appreciate an explanation of why you asked me to take an iPhone app SPL reading of my listening room only to then tell me it is useless and of no value. I feel somewhat manipulated by that exchange and I am still a bit confused by your request for me to do so. I acted in good faith with an interest in learning something from you.

I would like to know the mods stance on the highlighted sentence. I do think unless the situation is extreme PM's are obviously intended to be private, and should remain so unless both parties agree to make it public. I don't judge the current situation extreme or urgent in a way that PM's should have been shared publicly.

 

[treitz3]

I am curious if the other three moderators think it is appropriate to share Private Messages on public threads. I have not seem any of them post one.

Nor will you.

Beyond that as a member and not representing the forum management team, I will take the 5th.

Tom

 

[Blizzard]

Amir, I think the issue is their right to their privacy, not my right to their privacy. I have not thought of sending "nastygrams" (rather funny BTW) and then sitting back to enjoy some protection. I simply assumed a level of trust between the forum members when it came to sending private communications, but I have seen that that trust has been broken. I have never sent you a Private Message, and I now have no intention of doing so as you seem to prefer public communication.

I am curious if the other three moderators think it is appropriate to share Private Messages on public threads. I have not seem any of them post one.

You are inferring improper conduct in my PMs. I have sent a few PMs to fellow members who I consider to be friends. If there is anything improper about them, I would have hoped they would have let me know in a response. This is the first I have ever heard of any improper conduct, from anyone. If I deserve to be sanctioned, please provide a reason and sanction me. I am here to learn, and that would serve as a lesson. If you would like me to leave the forum or do not think I have anything of value to contribute, please let me know.

And I would still appreciate an explanation of why you asked me to take an iPhone app SPL reading of my listening room only to then tell me it is useless and of no value. I feel somewhat manipulated by that exchange and I am still a bit confused by your request for me to do so. I acted in good faith with an interest in learning something from you.

Why not just use your email if you're worried about top secret security issues. Are you plotting to bomb Russia or something? Classified information is being shared?

Actually the only way you are insured 100% privacy is if you use a passenger pigeon. But unfortunately they are extinct.

 

[PeterA]

Why not just use your email if you're worried about top secret security issues. Are you plotting to bomb Russia or something? Classified information is being shared?

Actually the only way you are insured 100% privacy is if you use a passenger pigeon. But unfortunately they are extinct.

I'm not suggesting anything so dramatic. I do sometimes use email when I know the other party's email address. But I also like the filing system that is built in here as it was set up. It is convenient, and when I receive PMs, the last thing I want to do is to get out of the system to send an email. I had just assumed PMs would not be shared in threads. It is no more complicated than that. None of the other members with whom I have communicated via PM in the past four years have ever broken this trust. So, until recently, I was not aware that I should take extra precautions or be concerned in the least. As I wrote, I do not plan to PM Amir, so I am fairly sure I do not need to worry about my private communications with forum members becoming public.

The other issue is that this is the system that was set up by WBF for member to member communication. I don't know many fellow members' email addresses.

Blizzard, do you think your response above reflects the general view of the rest of the membership here at WBF?

 

[esldude]

Why not just use your email if you're worried about top secret security issues. Are you plotting to bomb Russia or something? Classified information is being shared?

Actually the only way you are insured 100% privacy is if you use a passenger pigeon. But unfortunately they are extinct.

You sure that isn't carrier pigeon? And would that not be susceptible to the man in the middle attack? Or in the case of G.O.T. I guess it would be Ravens susceptible to the arrow in the middle of the Raven attack.

 

[RayDunzl]

You sure that isn't carrier pigeon? And would that not be susceptible to the man in the middle attack? Or in the case of G.O.T. I guess it would be Ravens susceptible to the arrow in the middle of the Raven attack.

Ectopistes migratorius



I didn't know the story - https://www.audubon.org/magazine/may-june-2014/why-passenger-pigeon-went-extinct

 

[Blizzard]

I'm not suggesting anything so dramatic. I do sometimes use email when I know the other party's email address. But I also like the filing system that is built in here as it was set up. It is convenient, and when I receive PMs, the last thing I want to do is to get out of the system to send an email. I had just assumed PMs would not be shared in threads. It is no more complicated than that. None of the other members with whom I have communicated via PM in the past four years have ever broken this trust. So, until recently, I was not aware that I should take extra precautions or be concerned in the least. As I wrote, I do not plan to PM Amir, so I am fairly sure I do not need to worry about my private communications with forum members becoming public.

The other issue is that this is the system that was set up by WBF for member to member communication. I don't know many fellow members' email addresses.

Blizzard, do you think your response above reflects the general view of the rest of the membership here at WBF?

Just remember in the information age big brother is always watching My opinion doesn't matter, because if I use the private message services here, I only say things I would say in public because I know big brother is always watching

 

[amirm]

Amir, I think the issue is their right to their privacy, not my right to their privacy. I have not thought of sending "nastygrams" (rather funny BTW) and then sitting back to enjoy some protection. I simply assumed a level of trust between the forum members when it came to sending private communications, but I have seen that that trust has been broken. I have never sent you a Private Message, and I now have no intention of doing so as you seem to prefer public communication.

Where did I say I "prefer public communication?" I did not. I said if you send me insulting, unprofessional messages, don't expect any benefit of privacy. I also said that if you send the same thing to someone else, we highly encourage them to report it to us which the system does by forwarding the PM to the admin forum. We will all then read your PM to that individual.

I also said that many such PMs have been reported. And as have been on forums other people run. I was actually told by admins on AVS Forum to report such PMs to them which I did.

You are simply operating under a false promise that such inappropriate PMs are private. They are not. Never have been either.

You want to bully and insult someone, do it elsewhere where such rules don't exist.

For PMs that are appropriate I told Andre that I hold myself to high standards and will not disclose them. Don't mix these two types of PM please.

I am curious if the other three moderators think it is appropriate to share Private Messages on public threads. I have not seem any of them post one.

I am here to tell you in official capacity of the forum what our policies are. You can shop for answer if you like but the answer above will not change.

That said, here is an example of one I remember:

FWIW he [PeterB] contacted me yesterday and read me the riot act about WBF and then told me about a jihad that has been raging for 30 years and that "I am welcome on AVshowroomsforums as a 'founding' member' and that was his personal invite to me. He also went on to say that if I join "I will have a chance at redemption" because WBF is lost and will never return and that I need to "man up"

I suggested to Peter that he really needs to see a doctor to get his medications adjusted because he seems to be suffering from delusions of grandeur. Many members here have already been asked to join his new forum where wankers aren't allowed and only he and he alone will separate the wheat from the chaff because at WBF we don't cater to audiophiles but rather pander to uneducated normal people

How does one say to him "open mouth and insert foot deeper"

So for those that want to hear his sermon from the mount from the self proclaimed savior of the hobby that he loves so dearly and save it from ruination you know where to find him

Are you going to defend PeterB's right to privacy of said message and chastise Steve for open disclosure of it? You were there. You saw these messages. Did you report this post of Steve's as unacceptable?

Or would you say that such a disclosure was in the best interest of this forum and its membership as judged by Steve?

 

[Blizzard]

You sure that isn't carrier pigeon? And would that not be susceptible to the man in the middle attack? Or in the case of G.O.T. I guess it would be Ravens susceptible to the arrow in the middle of the Raven attack.

Yeah but if the bird made it with the message, you're likely safe.

 

[esldude]

PM short for Private Message.....................perhaps private merely refers to the fact it is on a private forum rather than WWW email or something.

In any case, Private Messages aren't private. So what is the correct name for them not to confuse people?

Maybe PM, personal message or maybe PNPM for Personal not private message?

I knew PM's weren't private altogether. However, like calling someone I work with personally at their house and discussing things, I would generally expect that not be relayed to everyone where I work. If the phone call involved threats of violence or sabotage okay I get it. Other than such extremes it seems at least decorus to keep such things out of the public. Not a requirement I guess, and not a rule as PM's work on forums, but certainly something you might generally expect to be the case.

 

[NorthStar]

 

[Blizzard]

That looks like a really cool book!

 

[Gregadd]

I thought I might shed some light on this issue because I was insulted via PM. This indidividual was very shrewd.
He disguised his insult. I sent it to a few members. They thought it was outrageous. I ?eported it. No action was taken. Defamation requires publication.
I was not about to publish it for him.
I briefly reviewed WBF TOS. As you might expect I saw no mention of PM . Maybe I missed it. Documents usually are construed by there plain meaning. Private means private. Confidentiality and privledged are more precise terms.

Generally speaking you may not add meaning to rules after the fact.
Ambiguities are generally resolved against the author.
This is a cursory analysis.
My own personal opinion is private messages should remain private. This is especially true when an official is involved. The notion that you forfeit your privacy because you have been bad does not hold water for obvious reasons.













J

 

[treitz3]

Phone message. PeterB. Nothing more. Not a PM. Information disclosed. King discombobulated. Spin introduced. Think. Decipher message. Your call. Peace out.

Tom

 

[spazmatron]

Gone to sleep, woken up and check in but no progress....

Ok Mike it's time to break out your bible,

Self help books for everyone !