the time of day has lost much of it's relevance. seems a bit disorienting to me. but i'm warming up to it.

[andromedaaudio]

Praise yourself lucky that you are in a country with good healthcare, just in case you get sick, You can always travel when it is a little safer
My father had 2 heart operations in Holland, and he is 83 and still around !

Sure you have a point

 

[astrotoy]

That was just a village - pretty nice never the less
The Corton should be nice if it has a bit of age
I actually have had time to organise the chaos in the cellar a bit more so it has been fun finding some older bottles - too much shiraz though

All of these comments got me to find a binder where I put labels from memorable wines I have had. Haven't done that in a long time. Here are four labels that I never got around to pasting in the book. They don't show the year, but they must have been 1964 or 1966. I saw that communal Burgundies are not that cheap. These are four of the grand cru Burgundies. If you look closely, you can see the price on one label in pencil. $7.49 for a 1964 Richebourg. I think that was the most expensive of the group. Drank those nearly 50 years ago! Never could afford them again, especially with my tape buying habits! Larry

 

[astrotoy]

Here are a few bottles, all Bordeaux, except for the port on the right. The sister Pauillac second growth chateaux Pichon Lalande and Pichon Baron are on the left, Ch. Mouton Rothchild from the good but not great vintage of 1967 in the middle, one of the prizes of my collection - the 1961 Ch. Margaux to the right (bought for$8.95 in 1968, and at the end a 1963 Warre Vintage Port (1963 was a great year for vintage port, terrible year for Bordeaux and Burgundies.)

Larry

 

[astrotoy]

Last One. Not too much on white wines so far. Corton-Charlemagne is a white wine very close to our hearts. The label below is from our first date, fifty years ago next month (our 50th wedding anniversary is this coming December). It was in Berkeley at Hank Rubin's Pot Luck Restaurant known for country French food at reasonable prices and fine wines, similarly priced. Some Bay Area residents may remember the restaurant, and especially the chef, Narsai David who went to greater fame with his own eponymous restaurant and television show. I picked out the Corton-Charlemagne, don't remember the exact price, maybe $25. But I saved the label with my very brief tasting note. Fifteen years later we had our first Michelin three star restaurant meal at Mark Meneau's L'Esperance about 80 miles east of Corton, and again had a Corton-Charlemagne. We've had different vintages and growers of CC over the years, but everytime the bottle brings back wonderful memories. Larry

 

[marty]

I'm loving your wine posts Larry. Corton Charleys, Montrachets and Meursaults are all on my desert island short list.

 

[pjwd]

Last One. Not too much on white wines so far. Corton-Charlemagne is a white wine very close to our hearts. The label below is from our first date, fifty years ago next month (our 50th wedding anniversary is this coming December). It was in Berkeley at Hank Rubin's Pot Luck Restaurant known for country French food at reasonable prices and fine wines, similarly priced. Some Bay Area residents may remember the restaurant, and especially the chef, Narsai David who went to greater fame with his own eponymous restaurant and television show. I picked out the Corton-Charlemagne, don't remember the exact price, maybe $25. But I saved the label with my very brief tasting note. Fifteen years later we had our first Michelin three star restaurant meal at Mark Meneau's L'Esperance about 80 miles east of Corton, and again had a Corton-Charlemagne. We've had different vintages and growers of CC over the years, but everytime the bottle brings back wonderful memories. Larry

View attachment 63789

wow Larry - that is quite a trophy list - shame demand has sent prices through the roof - bloody free market !!
I am enjoying Chambolle Musigny and Vosne- Romanee these days - some cracking wines in the premier cru's - a very occasional bottle with a G in front
Then there is all the rest of the world - quality is just so good these days

A good time for some investigation

Phil

 

[astrotoy]

I'm loving your wine posts Larry. Corton Charleys, Montrachets and Meursaults are all on my desert island short list.

Thanks, Marty. Just for you, a few whites from the '60s (and one earlier).


Several white Burgundies from the 1960's and a couple from Bordeaux. Note the prices on some or in my notes. The Batard Montrachet is one of the supreme white burgundies. I ended up buying and drinking several of these - $5 each. Vaudesir, one of the great Chablis Grand Crus. The spectacular label of the Meursault-Genevrieres from the Hospice du Beaune annual charity auction - $3.75. The famed Sauternes Ch. d'Yquem starting selling a dry white wine from their non-botrytis grapes. They named it "Y" or Ygrec. IIRC this was one of their first vintages. Cost $2.10 a bottle. Now they charge $150 or so. The last wine is one of the great Sauternes (actually a Barsac which is the next door neighbor). Forgot completely about this next wine. Again from another visit to Pot Luck - a half bottle for dessert of the 1950 Ch. Climens rated just below d'Yquem in those days.

Larry

 

[marty]

Larry. All I can say is...wowza.
I also know that if we had known each other many years ago, we would have been called "dangerous" in any wine shop.

When my wino friends and I had great wine dinners over the years, we often memorialized the wines by making T-shirts with the labels. Here is the T-shirt (front and back) from one such incredible night.

Latour was the 70 and 49​

Palmer was 78​

Ch d'Yquem was 76​

Petrus was 59​

Cheval Blanc was 83​

Lafite of course was the 59​

​

The label from the 27 Fonseca didn't survive the process, so we just typed that one in!​

 

[pjwd]

Marty and Larry

That is a very impressive tasting history

What are you picks for the most burgundian US wine
I have a soft spot for littorai

Phil

 

[astrotoy]

Larry. All I can say is...wowza.
I also know that if we had known each other many years ago, we would have been called "dangerous" in any wine shop.

When my wino friends and I had great wine dinners over the years, we often memorialized the wines by making T-shirts with the labels. Here is the T-shirt (front and back) from one such incredible night.

Latour was the 70 and 49​

Palmer was 78​

Ch d'Yquem was 76​

Petrus was 59​

Cheval Blanc was 83​

Lafite of course was the 59​

​

The label from the 27 Fonseca didn't survive the process, so we just typed that one in!​

View attachment 63798


View attachment 63799

Marty, Wowza back to you. I've got to play my Four Season's tape of "Who Loves You" album with their "Oh, What a Night". And top it off both a d"Yquem and a Beerenauslese!!

Larry

 

[Barry]

I'm amazed at the prices back then. Chateau Margaux for $8.95 - sign me up!!!!

 

[marty]

Marty and Larry

That is a very impressive tasting history

What are you picks for the most burgundian US wine
I have a soft spot for littorai

Phil

I think Larry is going to be far better at answering this than me. I'm not a huge red pinot noir fan and thus not very knowledgeable only to say my sense is that your question is broad and may require some narrowing down such as price range. But I'll defer to Larry. If you are referring to whites however, I'm afraid the California pickings there are very slim for me as I think most Calif chardonnays are undrinkable (more like drinking oak than fruit) although Kistler, Peter Michael, Aubert, Marcassin and Kalin can be quite enjoyable. I know there are others many people like, but I'm not that adventurous, preferring to stick to French white burgundies, Alsatian, German and some Italian white wines depending on what is being paired with them. The only Calif white I have in my cellar is Kistler so that should tell you something.

Commenting on wines is not unlike commenting on stereo systems. Here's a short wine story. We attended a major birthday party for a friend some years ago who arranged for an afternoon of private wine tastings in Napa for about 20 of us (a rolling bus party). At one famous vineyard, we were given wines to drink (blindly) by appropriately nice young men and women servers. It was a Calif chardonnay. When my server asked me what I thought, I replied I didn't like it. That's all I was was prepared to say. He then asked me why. I said it tasted like a cross between cat piss and turpentine. If you ever saw those old EF Hutton TV commercials where a room full of people suddenly stop talking after someone speaks, you will get some idea of the trouble I caused. It turned out the my server was the owner's son. Long story made short. I was asked to leave the property immediately. So now, being older and wiser, when someone asks me what I think of a wine they served me, I invariably answer "that's nice" and smile. It's kind of the same thing when I listen to stereo systems! Works well. I never get asked to leave anymore!!

 

[cjfrbw]

How long before you are drunk and forget all this mincing, pinky lifting bourgeoisie pretense?

 

[pjwd]

I think Larry is going to be far better at answering this than me. I'm not a huge red pinot noir fan and thus not very knowledgeable only to say my sense is that your question is broad and may require some narrowing down such as price range. But I'll defer to Larry. If you are referring to whites however, I'm afraid the California pickings there are very slim for me as I think most Calif chardonnays are undrinkable (more like drinking oak than fruit) although Kistler, Peter Michael, Aubert, Marcassin and Kalin can be quite enjoyable. I know there are others many people like, but I'm not that adventurous, preferring to stick to French white burgundies, Alsatian, German and some Italian white wines depending on what is being paired with them. The only Calif white I have in my cellar is Kistler so that should tell you something.

Commenting on wines is not unlike commenting on stereo systems. Here's a short wine story. We attended a major birthday party for a friend some years ago who arranged for an afternoon of private wine tastings in Napa for about 20 of us (a rolling bus party). At one famous vineyard, we were given wines to drink (blindly) by appropriately nice young men and women servers. It was a Calif chardonnay. When my server asked me what I thought, I replied I didn't like it. That's all I was was prepared to say. He then asked me why. I said it tasted like a cross between cat piss and turpentine. If you ever saw those old EF Hutton TV commercials where a room full of people suddenly stop talking after someone speaks, you will get some idea of the trouble I caused. It turned out the my server was the owner's son. Long story made short. I was asked to leave the property immediately. So now, being older and wiser, when someone asks me what I think of a wine they served me, I invariably answer "that's nice" and smile. It's kind of the same thing when I listen to stereo systems! Works well. I never get asked to leave anymore!!

Ha - amazing how some folks react badly to constructive feedback

Thanks for the list - I will see if I can snag a few of them to try but a lot aren't exported - as you can see I have a bottle of Kistler pinot in the line up in the earlier post
I understand your aversion to buttery oaky chardies esp compared to white burg.
If you want to experiment a little I would have a crack at the littorai. That Russian River area of Sonoma is quite interesting.
My question revolved around the fact that just about every serious pinot and chardonnay maker in the new world sets their bench mark on burgundy and only a few even come close, even though you know they are all busting their boiler to achieve it. I am not suggesting a replica should be possible but you would have thought a local equivalent in elegance and power.
Its fun to search !
Friday morning here and Palestrina is playing with doors wide open to get the neighbors in the mood.
Stay safe
Phil

 

[pjwd]

How long before you are drunk and forget all this mincing, pinky lifting bourgeoisie pretense?

getting legless is an unfortunate consequence of this high minded pursuit

 

[marty]

getting legless is an unfortunate consequence of this high minded pursuit

Phil, it's OK. There are numerous troglodytes in the wine world as well as the audio world.

 

[astrotoy]

Ha - amazing how some folks react badly to constructive feedback

Thanks for the list - I will see if I can snag a few of them to try but a lot aren't exported - as you can see I have a bottle of Kistler pinot in the line up in the earlier post
I understand your aversion to buttery oaky chardies esp compared to white burg.
If you want to experiment a little I would have a crack at the littorai. That Russian River area of Sonoma is quite interesting.
My question revolved around the fact that just about every serious pinot and chardonnay maker in the new world sets their bench mark on burgundy and only a few even come close, even though you know they are all busting their boiler to achieve it. I am not suggesting a replica should be possible but you would have thought a local equivalent in elegance and power.
Its fun to search !
Friday morning here and Palestrina is playing with doors wide open to get the neighbors in the mood.
Stay safe
Phil

I was hoping Marty or others can advise on Pinot Noirs in California. I've never been a great connoisseur of California wines. It was hard enough learning about French wines, even though I moved to the Bay Area more than 50 years ago. In those days, driving up the California Route 29, the "Route de Vin" of Napa Valley, we would stop at Robert Mondavi first and then Beaulieu, Louis Martini, Beringer, Christian Bros., and Charles Krug. And that was it! Today, I just looked at a map of the area with the wineries, and it looks like a hundred or more dotting both sides of the valley in that short stretch. I bought some California Cabs in those days, including a couple of cases of the first wine released by Robert Mondavi, the 1966 vintage, which Robert help load into the trunk of our car. I always preferred the blends of the Bordeaux than the straight 100% cabs. My main knowledge (if you could call it that) of California pinot noirs came from watching the movie Sideways. Not from any direct experience drinking them.

Larry

 

[pjwd]

I was hoping Marty or others can advise on Pinot Noirs in California. I've never been a great connoisseur of California wines. It was hard enough learning about French wines, even though I moved to the Bay Area more than 50 years ago. In those days, driving up the California Route 29, the "Route de Vin" of Napa Valley, we would stop at Robert Mondavi first and then Beaulieu, Louis Martini, Beringer, Christian Bros., and Charles Krug. And that was it! Today, I just looked at a map of the area with the wineries, and it looks like a hundred or more dotting both sides of the valley in that short stretch. I bought some California Cabs in those days, including a couple of cases of the first wine released by Robert Mondavi, the 1966 vintage, which Robert help load into the trunk of our car. I always preferred the blends of the Bordeaux than the straight 100% cabs. My main knowledge (if you could call it that) of California pinot noirs came from watching the movie Sideways. Not from any direct experience drinking them.

Larry

Larry - I did a trip through Sonoma and Willamette a few years ago and one of the wineries told me that Sideways led to a huge pull of Merlot vines and that had upped the quality - not sure if it is true.
We were at Merry Edwards winery and there were 3 other couples there - all trying to guess which pinot clone they were tasting - a bit intimidating - turns out they were all winemakers
I thought the northern Sonoma area and Oregon were quite interesting , as well as Littorai there was Peay and Copain - in Willamette Willackenzie impressed as did a few others. As you say there are so many.
On the hill south of Newberg where some of the posh wineries are located you can see 5 snow capped peaks. A fantastic road trip from SF
I have some 2000 Robart Mondavi which is spectacular I am quite a fan of Napa cabs but do not know any Bordeaux blends from that area. I think there are some cracking Kiwi Bordeaux blends these days
Definitely going to crack a bottle tonight after all this wine talk

cheers
Phil

 

[KeithR]

I was hoping Marty or others can advise on Pinot Noirs in California. I've never been a great connoisseur of California wines. It was hard enough learning about French wines, even though I moved to the Bay Area more than 50 years ago. In those days, driving up the California Route 29, the "Route de Vin" of Napa Valley, we would stop at Robert Mondavi first and then Beaulieu, Louis Martini, Beringer, Christian Bros., and Charles Krug. And that was it! Today, I just looked at a map of the area with the wineries, and it looks like a hundred or more dotting both sides of the valley in that short stretch. I bought some California Cabs in those days, including a couple of cases of the first wine released by Robert Mondavi, the 1966 vintage, which Robert help load into the trunk of our car. I always preferred the blends of the Bordeaux than the straight 100% cabs. My main knowledge (if you could call it that) of California pinot noirs came from watching the movie Sideways. Not from any direct experience drinking them.

Larry

Rusack out of the Santa Barbara region has excellent pinot for a reasonable price. Rochioli up north is also quite good. (i've been to both vineyards of course). at the high end Sea Smoke is wonderful but expensive. had a Melville pinot last week and it was quite excellent, one i had forgotten about - along with Sanford (a sideways stop).

paso robles probably has better varietals than Santa Barbara however. we prefer to taste there than napa and way less crowded. sextant and some others usually are solid.

I'll have to echo Marty's comments on california chard as basically dopey, oakey grape juice. And I haven't been a cal merlot fan pre-sideways. i'll take a syrah over one any day.

 

[NorthStar]

This' the best thread.