This Corona Virus Mania is Just Too Much, We All Need to Chill!

[asiufy]

I like this quote, which I agree 100%

"But many experts throughout Sweden say the current strategy is dangerous.

“Herd immunity doesn’t make sense because we don’t know whether or not you can become immune,” says Nele Brusselaers, an associate professor of clinical epidemiology. She added, “this is a virus that can kill anybody.”
"

 

[Lagonda]

mixed a bit of everything .

a lot of private homes with some nursing/ service and elderly nursing homes as well .
I think most people in sweden are also cramped together in cities like everywhere , with wild open spaces in the country where not much is going on

No they have large cities, but a lot of the population live somewhat rural, there is a lot more room. Sweden has a very good healthcare system, and the majority of cases in the capital Stockholm. They have been able to focus the grunt of staff to that region, and have not run out of resources yet.

 

[Folsom]

They seem to have worked very hard to find a dozen unknown docs and scientist to attack we know who , great source Al!

david

I must admit when I see "Los Angeles" as the first two words I don't expect anything less. A question arises, if we trust MDs for medical work because they're MDs, how does that reflect our respect for any other position? And when does it turn from "I think we should have reacted sooner" to "it's all so and so's fault"? That might sound weak handed, but the only information we have right now that isn't basically anecdotal is lab results from patients. And if I'm not mistake a lot of experts are indeed working at the top and have been. There will always be could'ves should'ves, but back to the point @PeterA brought up, should we be concentrating on that right now?

I'm sure the stress of being an MD right now makes one want to point the finger at everything. But it's not helping anything.

 

[djsina2]

People are going to complain no matter what. This is what they do. Nothing is ever good enough and they could have done it better. Case closed.

 

[steve williams]

She added, “this is a virus that can kill anybody.”

lest we forget. This is why conventional wisdom doesn’t apply here. A sobering but true statement

 

[dminches]

lest we forget. This is why conventional wisdom doesn’t apply here. A sobering but true statement

The fact that many healthcare workers are dying due to exposure should alarm everyone.

 

[Folsom]

I like this quote, which I agree 100%

"But many experts throughout Sweden say the current strategy is dangerous.

“Herd immunity doesn’t make sense because we don’t know whether or not you can become immune,” says Nele Brusselaers, an associate professor of clinical epidemiology. She added, “this is a virus that can kill anybody.”
"

It's true we don't conclusively know for sure you can't, but if you like anecdotes I can tell you my family members that contacted it haven't recontracted it.

We also don't know how many people have had it - no clue at all at this point. You can say scary things about reinfection, but you can also say positive things about potentially billions of pauci infections.

 

[ddk]

I must admit when I see "Los Angeles" as the first two words I don't expect anything less. A question arises, if we trust MDs for medical work because they're MDs, how does that reflect our respect for any other position? And when does it turn from "I think we should have reacted sooner" to "it's all so and so's fault"? That might sound weak handed, but the only information we have right now that isn't basically anecdotal is lab results from patients. And if I'm not mistake a lot of experts are indeed working at the top and have been. There will always be could'ves should'ves, but back to the point @PeterA brought up, should we be concentrating on that right now?

I'm sure the stress of being an MD right now makes one want to point the finger at everything. But it's not helping anything.

I have many friends who are doctors and not a single one has done any finger pointing. Depending on which state or circumstances they're working in their experiences vary in regards to dealing with this virus but no finger pointing.

david

 

[Folsom]

The fact that many healthcare workers are dying due to exposure should alarm everyone.

A reminder if you can donate N95 masks to healthcare workers please do. They suspect that breathing in high amounts of the virus is the reason why some that should have light symptoms end up having severe ones that may lead to death. (If you breath in 1 virus it can't replicate to entirely take over your lungs before your immune system does anything; but if you breath in air laden with it then you'll be overrun well before your system can start its fight)

 

[ddk]

She added, “this is a virus that can kill anybody.”
"

And other viruses and diseases didn't?
All this has happened in the past the only thing new and novel is nations being shut down.
david

 

[steve williams]

Philipines is trickier though , you get shot if you dont quarantine

Ouch

come to think of it our friend JackD201 is quarantined out in the countryside and out of the city. He hasn’t posted in a while but my wife is friends with Jacks wife on FB and they are doing well

 

[andromedaaudio]

Ouch

come to think of it our friend JackD201 is quarantined out in the countryside and out of the city. He hasn’t posted in a while but my wife is friends with Jacks wife on FB and they are doing well

Oh good i wish him all the best

 

[steve williams]

A reminder if you can donate N95 masks to healthcare workers please do. They suspect that breathing in high amounts of the virus is the reason why some that should have light symptoms end up having severe ones that may lead to death. (If you breath in 1 virus it can't replicate to entirely take over your lungs before your immune system does anything; but if you breath in air laden with it then you'll be overrun well before your system can start its fight)

I think what you are saying is that if the time from exposure to onset of symptoms is short does this imply a larger load of the virus and more severe symptoms Hopefully some of our other docs will chime in

 

[Al M.]

I must admit when I see "Los Angeles" as the first two words I don't expect anything less.

Right, because Los Angeles is not the "Real America" (whatever that means in some people's mind) .

Talking about divisiveness.

 

[asiufy]

And other viruses and diseases didn't?
All this has happened in the past the only thing new and novel is nations being shut down.
david

Other viruses were not as easily contagious or as insidious, though many were much more deadly once infected, like Ebola.
Normally, with viruses, it was easy: if you knew you were sick, you'd protect yourself and others by wearing a mask, for instance, and not contaminating others. With this one, you can go about your life, with no symptoms, and spread to a whole bunch of people. And worse, it's not known yet HOW exactly the virus propagate or spread itself. Remember, early on, when people said 26C temperatures would kill it? Well, that does not seem to be the case now...
Thus the worldwide panic, as the virus also proved to be at least twice as deadly as the previously most deadly strain of the "flu".
Governments need to be prepared for this kind of stuff, to treat people as well as provide a lifeline for the economy. That's one of the very few things that I believe a government should do.

 

[Surfski]

I appreciate surfki's efforts but doctors have put their lives on the line on many previous occasions, what's different this time? My mother was intubated in February after she had a heart attack and came down with pneumonia, so what?

Gee,thanks. That makes it worthwhile. I'm sorry to hear about your mother , hopefully she made a good recovery. One key difference is perhaps that the staff looking after your mother were , I assume, at minimal risk of getting sick simply due to caring for her. That just simply isn't the case with this disease. Last night we had another ICU nurse go down, and one of our residents. I'm afraid that the majority of people in this thread have no concept of what this is like. Having said that, I do enjoy reading the opinions when I have time, even though I disagree with a lot of them.
We ran out of N95 masks last night. I intubated my resident wearing a surgical mask and a face shield. Hopefully it was better than nothing. Some of us haven't actually been home for days. Two of us sleep in the endoscopy unit; my major fear is waking up to find one of my gastro colleagues performing a colonoscopy on me . This is a wee bit different from other times in my experience .
Whilst I have a view on the modelling data I've seen , and also on the preparedness or otherwise of various health symptoms, I simply don't care. Yet. Neither do most of the people I work with. Yet. Recriminations will undoubtedly follow.
Folsom is quite correct- we just don't know how many people have had this thing. And we never will.
This is a total prick of a disease. I'd quite like it to be over so I get back to the challenge of hunting down my Holy Grail LP. Stay healthy everyone.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think there will be a lot of irreconcilable arguing on both sides. The people who didn't support putting the economy into a coma will argue: "See, only 20,000 people died, so it was not necessary to destroy the economy."

People who supported the economic shutdown will reply: "The only reason only 20,000 people died is because we shut down the economy, and succeeded in enforcing physical distancing."

It will be another never-ending debate.

 

[ddk]

I appreciate surfki's efforts but doctors have put their lives on the line on many previous occasions, what's different this time? My mother was intubated in February after she had a heart attack and came down with pneumonia, so what?

Gee,thanks. That makes it worthwhile. I'm sorry to hear about your mother , hopefully she made a good recovery. One key difference is perhaps that the staff looking after your mother were , I assume, at minimal risk of getting sick simply due to caring for her. That just simply isn't the case with this disease. Last night we had another ICU nurse go down, and one of our residents. I'm afraid that the majority of people in this thread have no concept of what this is like. Having said that, I do enjoy reading the opinions when I have time, even though I disagree with a lot of them.
We ran out of N95 masks last night. I intubated my resident wearing a surgical mask and a face shield. Hopefully it was better than nothing. Some of us haven't actually been home for days. Two of us sleep in the endoscopy unit; my major fear is waking up to find one of my gastro colleagues performing a colonoscopy on me . This is a wee bit different from other times in my experience .
Whilst I have a view on the modelling data I've seen , and also on the preparedness or otherwise of various health symptoms, I simply don't care. Yet. Neither do most of the people I work with. Yet. Recriminations will undoubtedly follow.
Folsom is quite correct- we just don't know how many people have had this thing. And we never will.
This is a total prick of a disease. I'd quite like it to be over so I get back to the challenge of hunting down my Holy Grail LP. Stay healthy everyone.

Physically she's doing well thanks but not so well emotionally being isolated in this way. I wasn't paying lip service to doctors, two of my cousins were field medics in IDF during the height of the conflicts, always impressed me how they jumped in to save total strangers without little or no regard for their own lives, of course their wife and children looked at it differently. Keep up the good fight!

david

 

[Folsom]

I think what you are saying is that if the time from exposure to onset of symptoms is short does this imply a larger load of the virus and more severe symptoms Hopefully some of our other docs will chime in

Maybe?

I think of it like this...

A. Let's say you have 10 acres of land. A foreign animal pair moves in. They can produce a baby every 5 minutes. You need to drive 8 hours round trip to get traps for them.​

​

B. Alternatively you could have the same scenario but instead a hundred pairs of these animals move in, they breed just as fast and the traps are just as far away. The difference is you'll need a lot more traps and the impact your acreage will significantly higher when you return.​

A is like getting the virus from your hand, gust of wind, random chance in the air at grocery store. B is like being in a hospital or any other setting with lots of cv19 infected people. You can contract significantly more individual cv19 viruses (not variety, quantity) by breathing. You'll have more in you, able to bind to more cells, and able to replicate at an exponentially higher amount. Your immune system has to learn how to fight them, and prepare antibodies. For children they have more "naïve" (unspecified) T-cells that can "learn" for the cv19 very quickly; but adults don't so the reaction to infection takes longer - especially with the immune-evasive qualities cv19 has.

Your enemy in certain settings has a quantity advantage, and time is on its side. But per what you're saying, I don't know if saturation helps the immune system act faster in some ways, or just tends to increase auto-immunity problems for some, or quicker recovery for others... I don't know. What I've read wasn't focused on that perspective.

 

[Folsom]

I'm afraid that the majority of people in this thread have no concept of what this is like.
This is a total prick of a disease. I'd quite like it to be over so I get back to the challenge of hunting down my Holy Grail LP. Stay healthy everyone.

I hope they never will, I like the people of this forum.

Hopefully it won't be long before you're LP hunting again.

Are workers practicing any anti-stress measures at your hospital? Presumably stress is more cumulative when you're infected and unable to properly offset it cardiovascularly. I'm not saying I'd be able to lower my stress easily in that environment, but it's no mystery how valuable & appreciated healthcare workers are.