Todd's AG Trio G3 System -- it's about time

[caesar]

Hey Ked. I'm running the MSB Select DAC directly to the Mayer 300B. As you know, I used to have the Mayer 10Y Silver line stage. After extensive listening with the 10Y in the chain and without, I found a slight preference with going direct from the DAC. I know this is sacrilege for many, and I have concluded the same through trial several times over the last 30 years I've been in this hobby, but in this case I came to a different conclusion.

Thomas Mayer 8w's can certainly drive the Trios spectacularly. I do not listen to alot of classical. I wish I was better educated about it, because classical music really appeals to the mathematical part of my brain in the same way that Tool does. That said, I listened to a fair amount (for me) of classical since acquiring the Trios and again during the last two weekends of comparison. The way the orchestra "swells" during fortissimo and the massive space conveyed through the Mayers leads me to conclude that they are more than capable of driving the Trios. In this regard...the "swell", the space and layering, they exceed the iTron.

Any curiosity to try the Mayer preamp again, considering that this is a completely different system, and happens to be an electron microscope?

Or do you feel you are pretty much done?

 

[caesar]

...

Jury is still out on tube amps. I currently have a pair of Phasemation MA-1500's that I need to hook up. These are 300B amps. I would like to hear the Viva. We will see what happens.

...

Interesting dilemma. One train of thought says sell what you are passionate about, which is obviously solid state in your case. Another one says, give the customers what they want, and a good number definitely love horns with SETs. So maybe something tonally rich and opposite of what you already have?


So any update on the tube journey?

 

[Germanboxers]

Congrats! How long did the whole setup process take? How many iterations?

Hey Caesar. The setup process took 3 or 4 weeks, listening and adjusting by ear during the week and then adding measurements over the weekends. Having had 2 recent back surgeries in an 11 month span, along with several other surgeries before and one after, I was not able to perform the "full court press" approach I have often done in the past. I couldn't even answer how many iterations since some of them were quite "macro" in nature (large moves) and many more were small, incremental moves to determine if there was a precise spot that would couple with the mains.

I wish I had Todd's immense capacity to fine tune the setup. I truly am in awe of the lengths to which he goes to perfectly dial in the setup. I have no doubts that the efforts would be repaid with better sound; it stops being fun for me at some point, foreshortened by some chronic pain and lesser mobility.

 

[Germanboxers]

Any curiosity to try the Mayer preamp again, considering that this is a completely different system, and happens to be an electron microscope?

Or do you feel you are pretty much done?

Not really, at least at this point. That said, my experience in this hobby has proven one thing and that is never say never. Given the objectively small differences that we audiophiles chase at times and the subjective nature of what matters most to us at any point in time, it is reasonable to assume that a very good line stage might alter some future perceived optimization function for me. Probably way too many words to describe the sometimes fickle nature we audiophiles often share.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

pity none of you "Trio guys" use analogue sources..........

 

[Al M.]

pity none of you "Trio guys" use analogue sources..........

Of course they do. The output of a DAC is analog. Otherwise you couldn't listen to music...

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

is that your best shot at being funny!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Not really, at least at this point. That said, my experience in this hobby has proven one thing and that is never say never. Given the objectively small differences that we audiophiles chase at times and the subjective nature of what matters most to us at any point in time, it is reasonable to assume that a very good line stage might alter some future perceived optimization function for me. Probably way too many words to describe the sometimes fickle nature we audiophiles often share.

5 years ago i went through the same process; tried my MSB Select II directly into my darTZeel 468's bypassing my darTZeel preamp. it was very good, and you could make a case it was doing some things slightly better. but in the end i preferred the dynamics and authority of my dart pre. i think the dart preamp is similarly respected like the Thomas Mayer......not saying it's the same....but both are fine pieces.

in my case, with my huge commitment to analog sources, i would have had to use the MSB for analog input switching too, which it could do, but never got that far with it. but short of a preamp in the realm of the darTZeel, i could have really enjoyed going direct. the passive preamp in the Select II is really fine.

in the case of the Thomas Mayer preamp<->MSB direct-in difference......i think you do gain a remote volume control going direct. which is not nothing in the balance.

 

[Salectric]

@Germanboxers
I have been through a similar process of going back and forth between active linestage and passive. In my case, it was between an Emotive Epifania tube linestage and Slagle EMIA AVC passive. For a long time, I preferred the very slightly better clarity and bass weight of the AVC despite the Emotive's slightly better "dynamics and authority" (Mike Lavigne's words but I hear the same things). However, after changing the output coupling caps in the Emotive, I now find the active linestage has the advantage. It still has the better dynamics and authority, but now the Emotive also has slightly better bass weight and detail.

In any event, the two have always sounded very similar, nearly identical at times, which I consider high praise for the Emotive. Note the repeated use of "slightly." There are so many things in an active linestage that affect sound quality that it's surprising to get a sound so similar to a high-quality autoformer.

 

[Al M.]

is that your best shot at being funny!

No, I am just being factual.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

you know my point......your loss IMO

 

[Chop]

pity none of you "Trio guys" use analogue sources..........

Trios and an analogue turntable here...

 

[Al M.]

you know my point......your loss IMO

Of course I do know your point all too well. Hopefully you know mine.

 

[Al M.]

Trios and an analogue turntable here...

Playing vinyl mastered from digital recordings -- at least to some extent, I assume.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

for ultimate realism, I want to avoid any AD/DA conversion in the signal chain, but for dinner duty or party background digital is fine
and when demoing system, I ALWAYS start with digital and move to vinyl and finally set in the kill with tape

 

[Germanboxers]

5 years ago i went through the same process; tried my MSB Select II directly into my darTZeel 468's bypassing my darTZeel preamp. it was very good, and you could make a case it was doing some things slightly better. but in the end i preferred the dynamics and authority of my dart pre. i think the dart preamp is similarly respected like the Thomas Mayer......not saying it's the same....but both are fine pieces.

in my case, with my huge commitment to analog sources, i would have had to use the MSB for analog input switching too, which it could do, but never got that far with it. but short of a preamp in the realm of the darTZeel, i could have really enjoyed going direct. the passive preamp in the Select II is really fine.

in the case of the Thomas Mayer preamp<->MSB direct-in difference......i think you do gain a remote volume control going direct. which is not nothing in the balance.

With good gear, the tradeoff between going direct versus through an active line stage is relatively small. What you described as the differences between direct and through your darTZeel is similar to what I heard relative to the Mayer line stage. The gain in dynamics and authority was just barely perceptible, possibly due to the Duo Mezzo XD's 107db sensitivity. I assume it would be more so with the Trio's 109db sensitivity.

When I had the Mayer Silvers in the chain, I had to set the gain of the linestage to basically unity gain and then used the MSB remote for volume control. Not ideal for sound quality, but I can no longer do without a remote, even if it means turning in my audiophile membership card.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

With good gear, the tradeoff between going direct versus through an active line stage is relatively small. What you described as the differences between direct and through your darTZeel is similar to what I heard relative to the Mayer line stage. The gain in dynamics and authority was just barely perceptible, possibly due to the Duo Mezzo XD's 107db sensitivity. I assume it would be more so with the Trio's 109db sensitivity.

When I had the Mayer Silvers in the chain, I had to set the gain of the linestage to basically unity gain and then used the MSB remote for volume control. Not ideal for sound quality, but I can no longer do without a remote, even if it means turning in my audiophile membership card.

figured that was a part of it. me neither. we are pursuing our own happiness and enjoyment.

having a mute button within reach can be a big deal once in a while too.

I can no longer do without a remote

 

[Hear Here]

pity none of you "Trio guys" use analogue sources..........

Trio guys couldn't afford Trios if they used analogue sources!!!

 

[Germanboxers]

Trio guys couldn't afford Trios if they used analogue sources!!!

Or more likely our OCD would lead to insanity. I realize I may have to turn in my audiophile membership card, but over the last 20 years I have tried to reduce the number of variables that need to be incessantly tweaked. I know how I was 30 years ago with my vinyl setup and a certain amount of madness was intermixed with moments of glorious satisfaction. I just can't (or don't want to) do that anymore.

 

[PeterA]

There are turntables that can be set up once, not needing to be constantly tweaked, and left alone to be enjoyed.