Todd's AG Trio G3 System -- it's about time

[Al M.]

Or more likely our OCD would lead to insanity. I realize I may have to turn in my audiophile membership card, but over the last 20 years I have tried to reduce the number of variables that need to be incessantly tweaked. I know how I was 30 years ago with my vinyl setup and a certain amount of madness was intermixed with moments of glorious satisfaction. I just can't (or don't want to) do that anymore.

While I have a more modest system, in my case it is both, finances and OCD. I could never have gotten my system to the level where it's at had I invested in vinyl as well, and yeah, OCD. It's not just set-up, it's the clicks and pops, too. Funny, my audiophile friends complain about clicks and pops and surface noise on their vinyl while I listen right through it -- on *their* systems that is. But if it were *my* clicks and pops in *my* system? It would drive me crazy.

 

[sbnx]

While I have a more modest system, in my case it is both, finances and OCD. I could never have gotten my system to the level where it's at had I invested in vinyl as well, and yeah, OCD. It's not just set-up, it's the clicks and pops, too. Funny, my audiophile friends complain about clicks and pops and surface noise on their vinyl while I listen right through it -- on *their* systems that is. But if it were *my* clicks and pops in *my* system? It would drive me crazy.

Amen! That is exactly how I think about TT. Too fidgety and click pop that I would have to work to ignore.

Ron did get me thinking about a R2R machine.
I don’t have media for either.

 

[Chop]

Playing vinyl mastered from digital recordings -- at least to some extent, I assume.

Some vinyl mastered from digital is unavoidable. Thousands and thousands of 50s, 60s and 70's original LPs of all musical types means most of my vinyl is unashamedly analogue.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Amen! That is exactly how I think about TT. Too fidgety and click pop that I would have to work to ignore.

Ron did get me thinking about a R2R machine.
I don’t have media for either.

Dont leave out the realism of sound that comes along with the click and pops ..!



Regards

 

[Audiohertz2]

Playing vinyl mastered from digital recordings -- at least to some extent, I assume.

Actually these I don't mind as they tend to sound better than the digital file thru a dac ..!

Regards

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Amen! That is exactly how I think about TT. Too fidgety and click pop that I would have to work to ignore.

about one out of every 7-10 records i play has some noise on the lead in groove, or a section with a slight click for a rotation or five. this is the reality of good vinyl.

but they have more ambient 'air' and more room information than great digital by degrees. and in the first seconds before the music starts the room more noticeably pressurizes (analog captures and retains more of this) and you are aware of a recording space more noticeably (varies system by system) than digital. digital does not seem to do silence (you don't hear into the noise floor) as well as analog. which results in a greater musical connection....and a more physical reaction to the ease of the music. yes; the very best digital does some of this too.....but the effect is less.

important? that's personal.

Ron did get me thinking about a R2R machine.
I don’t have media for either.

tape does not suck.

i have gone all-in on crazy spendy digital and love it....but there is a slice of magic reserved for vinyl.

 

[Al M.]

Actually these I don't mind as they tend to sound better than the digital file thru a dac ..!

Regards

If that is the case, why would that be? Pleasant colorations added by vinyl?

 

[Lagonda]

I have plenty of records with a few pops and click and a few that even have scratches audible on quiet passages. I prefer older records and sometimes buy 4-5 different copies to find the best versions and pressings. I will take a original pressing with a few blemishes over a modern repress/remaster any day. Pops and clicks do not bother me much.

 

[caesar]

Hi SBNX, any update on your explorations with tubes?

 

[Chop]

I have plenty of records with a few pops and click and a few that even have scratches audible on quiet passages. I prefer older records and sometimes buy 4-5 different copies to find the best versions and pressings. I will take a original pressing with a few blemishes over a modern repress/remaster any day. Pops and clicks do not bother me much.

(My bolding) I have to completely agree with this. I have had late 70's / early 80's reissues of Something Else and Midnight Blue for about 30 years, and a couple of years ago i bought very early 60's American pressed reissues from a Certain Well Known Auction Site. The 80's reissues are still 40+ years old so not remotely modern, but it is absolutely unbelievable how much better the early 60's issues sound than the 80's reissues. I mean, jaw droppingly better in every way. Unless I really can't find 60's reissues for reasonable money there is ZERO chance I would buy a modern reissue of anything.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Put a “Chop “ to those reissues ..

 

[Audiohertz2]

If that is the case, why would that be? Pleasant colorations added by vinyl?

Well once pressed there’s no more AD conversion necessary then theirs analog RIAA /EQ , throw in the superior sound stage realism from LP’s , totally wipes the digital clean ..!

 

[treitz3]

Fellas, let's get back to the topic.

I found out today that mm make a HUGE difference in the playback effort. The way the speakers couple to the room.

We need not "prove" anything. If one wants to seek this? They have the posts that offer one's observations on it.

I came again on this tonight. A slight difference that made a HUGE change into what I hear.

In other words? The end result as to what I hear. I cannot explain enough how much Todd (sbnx)'s revelations ring true.

Everything affects everything, yet everything has an effect on everything.

Tom

 

[Hear Here]

Fellas, let's get back to the topic.

Yes please

I found out today that mm make a HUGE difference in the playback effort. The way the speakers couple to the room.

Please explain - what's "mm"? Thanks

 

[Al M.]

Please explain - what's "mm"? Thanks

Millimeters.

 

[Hear Here]

Millimeters.

So, you were talking about setting up the speakers? Had you said this, I'd have known and completely agreed with you - horns in particular need millimetre-accurate setting up! If responding to a particular post (rather than the thread subject in general), it's helpful to quote that post so we could see the reasoning of your reply - and know whether mm is millimetres or moving magnet!

 

[sbnx]

Hello everyone.

Just a quick update and a word of caution.

As far as tubes I have not experimented with the Trios as it does not have a passive crossover. Only the iTRON. So the only way to do Tubes on the Trios would be the preamp. I am getting a phasemation MA1500 for the Duos. I liked what that sounded like at AXPONOA so I figured I would get a pair to try. I still have a matched pair of the EAT 300B's from when I was playing with the Lampizator Pacific so I can experiment with those. I am also going to get a pair of WE 300B's for the phasemation as well.

Fixing noise. I recently installed a couple of the CAD ethernet contrrols in the Trio system. These things work very well. I was previously using the Aardvark so i wan't going from nothing to the CAD. The improvements were much bigger than I expected. The first one I was curious about was the ethernet input to the CH L10. I was very surprised at how much difference that made in lowering noise. Using a tablet to control volume is already a much better option than the remote control. The only issues is keeping network noise out which the CAD Ethernet control did very well. Then I installed one on the Wadax streamer. Again, a pretty significant change for the better. I highly recommend these.

A word or caution. I realize that many of you are not bumping speakers in the 0.1mm range when you set them up. But if you are then be aware of what the speaker is sitting on. When I setup my spacehorns I cut various thicknesses of maple blocks to be able to dial in the height of the spacehorns. I think I ended up with the wood block being about 1 1/8" thick and it is about 1 1/2 inch square. Of course I had the Track audio feet that could be variably adjusted which were sitting on the maple blocks. You can see this in the pictures of the speakers. I went through the final setup of the speakers at the very end of January. In the Winter the humidity is very low where I live. Especially in a heated room. The sound held together for several months and when Ron listened in mid March everything was still pretty good. I was busy with the show and AXPONA etc and went a few weeks without listening to the Trios. After AXPONA I went in to listen to some music and decompress. That did not work out so well as the sound was really bad. What had happeed is we got a ton of rain here and the humidity was extremely high. The maple blocks had swelled and my wood floor had moved some. I had to spend many, many hours putting the sound back together. I have some Titanium threaded feet that I had made so I can get rid of the Maple blocks. I need to install these so things will be more stable. ---- So, the word of caution is: be aware if you are putting your speakers up on wood it will move around with humidity changes.

~Todd

 

[Al M.]

So, you were talking about setting up the speakers? Had you said this, I'd have known and completely agreed with you - horns in particular need millimetre-accurate setting up! If responding to a particular post (rather than the thread subject in general), it's helpful to quote that post so we could see the reasoning of your reply - and know whether mm is millimetres or moving magnet!

I don't quite follow. I was simply answering your question about an abbreviation, and I was quoting your post in doing so, which was the only quote required.

I was not making any claims, Tom (treitz3) did. While I chose to answer your question to him, in the context the answer was obvious.

PS: BTW, I don't disagree that millimetres make a difference.

 

[sbnx]

I am pretty sure Tom's post related to speaker placement and that moving one of his speakers a milimeter (mm) improved his sound quality be a good margin. He was also wanting people to stay on topic within a given thread.

 

[Al M.]

Hello everyone.

Just a quick update and a word of caution.

As far as tubes I have not experimented with the Trios as it does not have a passive crossover. Only the iTRON. So the only way to do Tubes on the Trios would be the preamp. I am getting a phasemation MA1500 for the Duos. I liked what that sounded like at AXPONOA so I figured I would get a pair to try. I still have a matched pair of the EAT 300B's from when I was playing with the Lampizator Pacific so I can experiment with those. I am also going to get a pair of WE 300B's for the phasemation as well.

Fixing noise. I recently installed a couple of the CAD ethernet contrrols in the Trio system. These things work very well. I was previously using the Aardvark so i wan't going from nothing to the CAD. The improvements were much bigger than I expected. The first one I was curious about was the ethernet input to the CH L10. I was very surprised at how much difference that made in lowering noise. Using a tablet to control volume is already a much better option than the remote control. The only issues is keeping network noise out which the CAD Ethernet control did very well. Then I installed one on the Wadax streamer. Again, a pretty significant change for the better. I highly recommend these.

A word or caution. I realize that many of you are not bumping speakers in the 0.1mm range when you set them up. But if you are then be aware of what the speaker is sitting on. When I setup my spacehorns I cut various thicknesses of maple blocks to be able to dial in the height of the spacehorns. I think I ended up with the wood block being about 1 1/8" thick and it is about 1 1/2 inch square. Of course I had the Track audio feet that could be variably adjusted which were sitting on the maple blocks. You can see this in the pictures of the speakers. I went through the final setup of the speakers at the very end of January. In the Winter the humidity is very low where I live. Especially in a heated room. The sound held together for several months and when Ron listened in mid March everything was still pretty good. I was busy with the show and AXPONA etc and went a few weeks without listening to the Trios. After AXPONA I went in to listen to some music and decompress. That did not work out so well as the sound was really bad. What had happeed is we got a ton of rain here and the humidity was extremely high. The maple blocks had swelled and my wood floor had moved some. I had to spend many, many hours putting the sound back together. I have some Titanium threaded feet that I had made so I can get rid of the Maple blocks. I need to install these so things will be more stable. ---- So, the word of caution is: be aware if you are putting your speakers up on wood it will move around with humidity changes.

~Todd

Acoustics can change as well. Recently, once the humidity in my room increased from the long winter dryness, I had to adjust to a far greater toe-out of my speakers, as otherwise there would have been excessive treble.

I did this while eventually also moving the speakers closer together, in order to keep distance tweeter to tweeter the same (or actually reducing it by two inches).