Todd's AG Trio G3 System -- it's about time

[Hear Here]

I don't quite follow. I was simply answering your question about an abbreviation, and I was quoting your post in doing so, which was the only quote required.

I was not making any claims, Tom (treitz3) did. While I chose to answer your question to him, in the context the answer was obvious.

PS: BTW, I don't disagree that millimetres make a difference.

Sorry, I was under the wrong impression that your explanation for mm was not from the member who first used the abbreviation - treitz3 in Post #1053. It seems though that we all agree on what's important - that these speakers need accurate setting up, whether done in mm or ins!

 

[sbnx]

Sorry, I was under the wrong impression that your explanation for mm was not from the member who first used the abbreviation - treitz3 in Post #1053. It seems though that we all agree on what's important - that these speakers need accurate setting up, whether done in mm or ins!

I think microns is probably the better unit of measure.

 

[Don Reid]

SBNX, have you ever heard any plastic coloration from the plastic horns of the Trio G3. I don't mean to imply that such coloration is present. In fact my experience is just the opposite. My modest little system uses BD Design ABS plastic Otis 150 horns for the midrange of my DIY horn system, and a number of people, some on WBF, have accused plastic horns of sounding plastic.

 

[Ligriv]

SBNX, have you ever heard any plastic coloration from the plastic horns of the Trio G3. I don't mean to imply that such coloration is present. In fact my experience is just the opposite. My modest little system uses BD Design ABS plastic Otis 150 horns for the midrange of my DIY horn system, and a number of people, some on WBF, have accused plastic horns of sounding plastic.

I listened to the original (not DIY) BD-Design Sigma speakers here in Helsinki at a friend's place (the best speakers ever built by Bert Doppenberg) with plastic horns.
The sound was superb, no sign of coloration on the plastic horn.
Indeed this one uses some small sandbags placed on the base of the horn near the BMS compression driver, perhaps this aspect matters.

 

[sbnx]

SBNX, have you ever heard any plastic coloration from the plastic horns of the Trio G3. I don't mean to imply that such coloration is present. In fact my experience is just the opposite. My modest little system uses BD Design ABS plastic Otis 150 horns for the midrange of my DIY horn system, and a number of people, some on WBF, have accused plastic horns of sounding plastic.

I don’t hear a “plastic” sound.

Every material will resonate and give off it’s own harmonics. AG puts material in the ABS specifically to damp resonances. The only way to know would be to make the horns of another material and compare the sound. A lot of effort.

 

[Kozak170]

and a number of people, some on WBF, have accused plastic horns of sounding plastic.

If someone is so sensitive to the coloration of a plastic horn, it is better not to choose a well-polished, glossy horns (like your profile photo example), these people should choose a matte Nextel finish or a textured paint coating for the surface of their plastic horn, because well-polished, glossy horns (especially the thin ones) are much more prone to transfer the inherent sound of the underlying material to the original sound of the record, whether this material is plastic or wood. In fact, the ultra smooth and well-polished surface of the horn acts like a mirror and makes the coloration of the underlying material appear more in the sound. but the surface with more granular and rough coatings does the opposite, and with better control and damping of surface resonances, less coloration is transmitted to the sound.

Of course, this does not mean that all well-polished, glossy horns have plastic coloration in any case and everyone should stay away from them. It also depends on the listener, if that person is generally not so allergic to plastic horn coloration and does not receive any coloration from glossy horns, They can choose glossy horns, so their preference between matte and glossy finish can be based on appearance and taste.

People like Romy the Cat or a member from this forum @christensenleif@msn.com have experience with both types of glossy and matte Nextel coated horns and can confirm these statements and their experiences show that the matte horns with Nexel/Textured coatings have more smooth and natural sound with less coloration compared to Glossy types.

Horn with matte Nextel paints and another with textured paints from Avantgarde Acoustic.

 

[Jim Smith]

I don’t hear a “plastic” sound.

Every material will resonate and give off it’s own harmonics. AG puts material in the ABS specifically to damp resonances. The only way to know would be to make the horns of another material and compare the sound. A lot of effort.

 

[Jim Smith]

The bottom line, at least for me, is when I stop listening to sounds and I fall into the music.

 

[Multiway]

I've turned and made GRP horns from moulds making my own Tractrix and Le Cléac'h profile horns for my Vitavox S2 drivers. I found softer woods to sound better.

I also like a textured finish over gloss at these frequencies.
I achieved texture by use of fine sand in the paint.

 

[nirodha]

I don’t hear a “plastic” sound.

Every material will resonate and give off it’s own harmonics. AG puts material in the ABS specifically to damp resonances. The only way to know would be to make the horns of another material and compare the sound. A lot of effort.

Hi Todd, with a bit of luck the passive new Mezzo’s will shine their magic in my listening room at the end of the year . About the material of the horns, have you heard of a difference in sound between the ultra mat or glossy horns? Cheers, Wim

 

[sbnx]

I have not compared gloss vs matt directly. That is almost an impossible thing to compare. Even If one had two sets of horns unscrewing them and screwing in the new ones would almost certainly move the speaker a little and would likely result in a false report that whichever one you tried second would sound worse.

 

[sbnx]

Hi Todd, with a bit of luck the passive new Mezzo’s will shine their magic in my listening room at the end of the year . About the material of the horns, have you heard of a difference in sound between the ultra mat or glossy horns? Cheers, Wim

Very exciting that you are getting a pair of Mezzo. Those are a really great speaker and the adjustable tweeter makes setup much easier. Placing the top horn section in place is really a 3 person job.

 

[nirodha]

Very exciting that you are getting a pair of Mezzo. Those are a really great speaker and the adjustable tweeter makes setup much easier. Placing the top horn section in place is really a 3 person job.

Thank you, Todd! I was really shocked to hear how much the Mezzos were better than the Duo GTs (my previous dream speakers). If you don’t have really big listening space the Mezzos beat the Trios. Shockingly great speakers, the G3 Avantgardes

 

[wil]

I have not compared gloss vs matt directly. That is almost an impossible thing to compare. Even If one had two sets of horns unscrewing them and screwing in the new ones would almost certainly move the speaker a little and would likely result in a false report that whichever one you tried second would sound worse.

I’ll take your word on this, as you have far more experience/ expertise with precision speaker set up. But, as a former owner of the Mezzo’s, I can’t imagine that simply replacing the light weight horn would move the speaker. Maybe the driver housing could move a micron if not done with great care?I found that with two people, the big horn screws on/off very smoothly.

From my experience , I would definitely check out and compare the gloss with the Matt finish horn as I think the abs definitely has a sound coloration.

 

[Kozak170]

Very exciting that you are getting a pair of Mezzo. Those are a really great speaker and the adjustable tweeter makes setup much easier. Placing the top horn section in place is really a 3 person job.

Hello Todd, the midrange horn section of the Duo GT is the same size and weight as the Mezzo, is there a special difference between the Duo GT and the Mezzo that requires 3 people to place the midrange section horn of the Mezzo?

 

[sbnx]

Hello Todd, the midrange horn section of the Duo GT is the same size and weight as the Mezzo, is there a special difference between the Duo GT and the Mezzo that requires 3 people to place the midrange section horn of the Mezzo?

Hello Kozak,

The midrange horn for the mezzo is a separate piece and has to be attached to the base. It is quite heavy and is best if two people lift it up and get it in position. The third person would connect it and tuck the wire. Then the two people would lower it down and secure it with the bolts. The knurled knob is then screwed on and the midrange horn is screwed onto the driver.

I have included a couple pictures I took at AXPONA.

I hope this helps.
Todd

 

[Kozak170]

If you don’t have really big listening space the Mezzos beat the Trios. Shockingly great speakers, the G3 Avantgardes

Imagine this sentence being said by Bonzo, maybe this will finally happen in this third generation of AG

 

[LL21]

Hi Todd, with a bit of luck the passive new Mezzo’s will shine their magic in my listening room at the end of the year . About the material of the horns, have you heard of a difference in sound between the ultra mat or glossy horns? Cheers, Wim

Thank you, Todd! I was really shocked to hear how much the Mezzos were better than the Duo GTs (my previous dream speakers). If you don’t have really big listening space the Mezzos beat the Trios. Shockingly great speakers, the G3 Avantgardes

Congrats! That is super exciting. I have heard the AG Trio G3s and dual bass horns...the first horn I have heard that really really impressed me...as in all out assault impressed me. I have read about your Mezzos and intuitively have been very impressed by what I have read and the few videos of their sound were also pretty interesting to me.

And yes, the AG Trios with a single dual-horn probably take up 20-25 sf per channel minimum. Its a lot of space, and they can fill a 50' x 40' x 12' room (I have heard it in a room that size) without making you realize how much scale they must be effortlessly producing to fill that room.

So I could well imagine the Mezzos are super impressive in most any listening room including some pretty big ones.

 

[Hear Here]

Mezzo GT users or other AG experts:

Does the new Mezzo GT use identical mid and top drivers and horns (and amps) as the Duo GT?

If so, it's only in the bass that the Mezzo should perform better than the Duo. I've been considering an upgrade from Duo XD to the new Duo GT, but if the new Mezzo is better in the top and mid, I may have to re-think! Thanks

 

[sbnx]

Mezzo GT users or other AG experts:

Does the new Mezzo GT use identical mid and top drivers and horns (and amps) as the Duo GT?

If so, it's only in the bass that the Mezzo should perform better than the Duo. I've been considering an upgrade from Duo XD to the new Duo GT, but if the new Mezzo is better in the top and mid, I may have to re-think! Thanks

The tweeter and midrange in the Mezzo are the same as the DuoGT. Most of the differences are in the bass. The cabinet is much heavier and due to its construction has better bracing. The speaker weighs about 100 more pounds compared witht he DuoGT. There is also a difference in the way it is ported. It has twin ports in the bottom as opposed to a single port in the DuoGT. The port "tubes" are also longer. But IMHO the most important thing is the flared sides. This makes the transition in the crossover region between the midrange and the bass smoother as it is horn loading the bass down to just below 100Hz. I have setup the DuoGT several times and I set up the Mezzo at AXPONA. For the DuoGT I have to work at getting the 100-200Hz range to work well. With the Mezzo it just magically happened.

The Tweeter in the Mezzo is adjustable via the knob on the top. This makes time aligning the tweeter with the listening position much, much easier. Again, this can be done ont he DuoGT it just takes more work.

The iTron in the Mezzo uses the same parts quality at the iTron in the Trio. If you are going to go passive then this doesn't matter.

From a practical side the Mezzo bass cabinet has a larger footprint than the DuoGT. So, if you are concerned with space then the DuoGT will be a little easier to fit.