Todd's AG Trio G3 System -- it's about time

[caesar]

I can imagine that if you are stranded on an island like Jim Smith, and only have one choice for the amp, you will definitely choose Vivas.
Of course, it can be predicted that the rescue boat will not reach that remote island anytime soon to tie you to the boat's mast, so feel free to get those Auroras and enjoy them.

Jim Smith:
"If i were stranded on an island and had to choose one amp for the rest of my life it would be the Vivas"

Thank you for sharing the quote. Interesting, as I thought Jim Smith also imported Audiopax to go with Avantgarde.

@Jim Smith , if you can please clarify where you stand on the amps based on your rich experiences with Avantgarde, it will be very helpful. Also, would love to hear your thoughts on itron and Kondo, if you don't mind Thanks in advance

 

[caesar]

This pair if the dealer willing to take off the iTron. I definitely not getting the iTron.

Hello Uwiik,
Thanks again for sharing your journey - and congratulations. Out of curiosity, how much dynamics did the speaker lose with Kondo, if any? Also, was the bass response any different between itron and Kondo?

 

[Ron Resnick]

In the new room I will need a pair of 8 m RCA for my analog, a pair of 5 m RCA, a pair of 6 m power cable and a pair of 4 m speaker cable if I want to make everything looks neat and tidy.

At least you're not dealing with 14 meters like I am.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I can imagine that if you are stranded on an island like Jim Smith, and only have one choice for the amp, you will definitely choose Vivas.
Of course, it can be predicted that the rescue boat will not reach that remote island anytime soon to tie you to the boat's mast, so feel free to get those Auroras and enjoy them.

22 watts won't drive Pendragons for anything but solo vocal + guitar.

Jim Smith:
"If i were stranded on an island and had to choose one amp for the rest of my life it would be the Vivas"

I did not know Jim Smith loves the Auroras as much as I do.

 

[caesar]

The trios with bass horns are quite superior to all the speakers you mentioned. The duo is a joke

Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

Dear Uwiik, Best wishes for the health of your loved ones! Other than audio shows, I can recall hearing Kondo amplification only once with Acapella horns. Very enjoyable, indeed.

www.whatsbestforum.com

The bass of AG especially duo is inferior without the bass horn. It is not that WVL Berlin bass is anything special. These are totally different in terms of size and price so you are looking at very different speakers. I have heard the London and Chicago, not the Berlin. But the Berlin is a cone boxed bass with a horn loaded midrange.

Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

Dear Uwiik, Best wishes for the health of your loved ones! Other than audio shows, I can recall hearing Kondo amplification only once with Acapella horns. Very enjoyable, indeed.

www.whatsbestforum.com

Hi Bonzo,
I know you are not a fan of the duo. But any thoughts on the duo model that comes a with basshorn? (may be called mezzo?)

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Bonzo,
I know you are not a fan of the duo. But any thoughts on the duo model that comes a with basshorn? (may be called mezzo?)

equally bad. You can hear that at the AG showroom. The bass horn does nothing for it unlike for the trio where it is well integrated. You are better off buying a Devore than a duo if you cannot get the trio.

 

[Hear Here]

equally bad. You can hear that at the AG showroom. The bass horn does nothing for it unlike for the trio where it is well integrated. You are better off buying a Devore than a duo if you cannot get the trio.

We all know that Bonzo75 is biased against Duos, but the fact remains that the Duo family (including Mezzo) is the most popular within the entire Avantgarde range and owners are generally delighted with them. Moreover they hold their value (along with Unos) better than Trios and can easily be upgraded or sold on at little loss compared with their original price.

My first AGs were Unos (with SUB225 bass units) bought in 2002 with a good dealer discount for £4200. I sold them 17 years later for - £4200 - not a penny lost. My next AGs were Duos circa 2006 that I still own. I bought these used and they are now valued at about 3 times what I paid. Whether my new Duo XDs will reward me in similar fashion remains to be seen, but the dealer discount I obtained suggests that I could actually profit if I sold them now.

However, unless I move to Duo GTs, I'm unlikely to go anywhere as I don't want Trios in my room any more than I wanted to keep the big Quads I bought to evaluate electrostatics. Both the Quads and the Trios are so designed that they would seriously block the view from my 19th floor apartment overlooking the Solent. And anyway, despite what Bonzo may think, Duos are excellent speakers - even better than the Unos that were awarded Stereophile's Speaker of the Year in their youth!

 

[Kozak170]

22 watts won't drive Pendragons for anything but solo vocal + guitar.


I did not know Jim Smith loves the Auroras as much as I do.

Apart from the sound, IMO Vivas are the most beautiful tube amps I have ever seen.

When he was the original distributor for Avantgarde USA, he always recommends Vivas for AG users and from his large amount of experience he found that Vivas are the best at Musical Engagement.

 

[Kozak170]

Hi Bonzo,
I know you are not a fan of the duo. But any thoughts on the duo model that comes a with basshorn? (may be called mezzo?)

AFAIK duo + basshorn is the ONLY type of duo that can convince Bonzo to like duos..

 

[LL21]

Did you have the latest version of Prince PC with Palladium over silver plated IEC?
Palladium seems to have made considerable progress over silver. Me too, can't go for king series, we have Schuko outlet.

I think I have the originals.

 

[Uwiik]

I'm sorry but I've never even considered, let alone tried these crazy-priced cables! Every few years I'm persuaded to try this or that cable and as a result I have a bundle of mid-priced speaker cables. My most recent change was from solid silver Cabledyne Reference cables to Duelund tinned copper 12 gauge ones. After many days of "running in" I truly find myself at a loss as to which I prefer. When I invite other audiophiles with perhaps more critical ears than my own, we are again unable to differentiate any difference in sound.

Avantgarde speakers must be some of the most critical to set up for best sound (and with the greatest rewards when done so), but they are also just about the easiest speakers to drive. Being 107 (my own speakers) to 109 dB and presenting a comfortable 18 ohm load, just about any amplifier will be happy to power them.

A suggestion perhaps regarding speaker cables now you've found a friendly AG dealer - buy some Duelunds, run them in for long enough that any rough edges are lost, then take them to your friendly dealer and compare your Duelunds with the no doubt very costly ones he uses to demo his speakers. My guess is that you'll be hard pressed to be convinced that another deep dip into your pocket will be justified!

But I'd be happy to be proved wrong. Well, not happy as I'd have to reassess my own cable inventory!

I happen to have the said Duelund cables installed in my car audio, these were 5 m each and fully burned in. I will pull these out from the car and give it a try next week. Thanks so much for the information

 

[rob]

22 watts won't drive Pendragons for anything but solo vocal + guitar.


I did not know Jim Smith loves the Auroras as much as I do.

I remember he used them in his personal system with Tannoy.

 

[Uwiik]

@Uwiik, Why are you thinking you are going to need long sets of interconnects? This would only be the case if you were going with the iTron. Your Ongaku would likely be sitting in the same place as it is with your current speakers. You will need to run a pair of speaker cables over to the trio. Your current speaker cables may may not be long enough as the speaker terminals are about 3.5' off the ground. Then you will need to run a cable to the spacehorn. There are two ways to do this. You can run a speaker cable from the Trio over to the spacehorn. Or you can run another interconnect from the preamp over to the spacehorn. I don't know which way your dealer demo'd this for you.

One of the cables I very, very strongly considered was the ChordMusic by the Chord Company. This cable is very good. It is a very "quiet" cable with outstanding timing performance. The SarumT is the level below the ChordMuisc and it does the 90% of the timing of the ChordMusic but is not nearly as "quiet" sounding.

A friend of mine in Houston compared the ChordMusic to the Odin2 and bought the ChordMusic as he liked it better and it was much less money.

I have not listened to the duelund so I can not comment on it. If Jim likes it then I am sure it is good.

hi @sbnx,

I need a pair of very long interconnect for my analog, due to the sheer size of G3 and the basshorns taking up the space on the front wall I will have to move my analog to the side closer to where I am sitting. As for the other long pair, I was under the assumption that the basshorns must be driven via interconnect directly from the pre amp because that was how the dealer set it up with my G70. Thanks to you, now I know that I don’t need a long interconnect because apparently the basshorns can be driven via speaker cable from the Trio and I already own the needed cable, but that still doesn’t negate the need for a pair of also very long power cable for the pair of basshorns unless I make a new pair of dedicated AC outlet behind where the basshorns will be sitting, but then I will have to buy more power conditioners for the pair of basshorns making the whole proposition a zero sum game, no? For the speaker cable from Ongaku to Trio, none of my existing speaker cables can be used, due to the awkward angle and place on the Trio speaker terminal I must buy new speaker cable.

Thank you for the insight….

 

[Uwiik]

Hello Uwiik,
Thanks again for sharing your journey - and congratulations. Out of curiosity, how much dynamics did the speaker lose with Kondo, if any? Also, was the bass response any different between itron and Kondo?

Probably about 5% - 10% max, yes the iTron won in that matter but I felt big part of it was because of the really bad IC cable arrangement and suboptimal speaker cable on the Kondo. I might sound like a Ongaku fanboy which I am, but Ongaku in my limited experience is the only tube amps that posseses the dynamic of a very high end SS amp, especially with the addition of G70 pre amp, dynamic is off the chart and can only be rivaled by FM Acoustic pre amp, again this is based on my limited experience.

As for bass response, like I mentioned before G70+Ongaku won hands down by a long mile, and that was with suboptimal cables. This fact actually was what surprised me the most, tube is NOT supposed to win when it comes to bass.

 

[Uwiik]

At least you're not dealing with 14 meters like I am.

Out of curiosity, can you tell me more about your 14 meters cable? RCA/XLR? Brand/model?

 

[Uwiik]

, unless I move to Duo GTs, I'm unlikely to go anywhere as I don't want Trios in my room any more than I wanted to keep the big Quads I bought to evaluate electrostatics. Both the Quads and the Trios are so designed that they would seriously block the view from my 19th floor apartment overlooking the Solent. And anyway, despite what Bonzo may think, Duos are excellent speakers - even better than the Unos that were awarded Stereophile's Speaker of the Year in their youth!

initially I was thinking about Duo GT for the same reason as yours. Trio + basshorns are beyond humongous and will block my view to the garden….I sometimes regret demoing the Trio G3, because now I cannot live with less…

 

[Jim Smith]

Thank you for sharing the quote. Interesting, as I thought Jim Smith also imported Audiopax to go with Avantgarde.

@Jim Smith , if you can please clarify where you stand on the amps based on your rich experiences with Avantgarde, it will be very helpful. Also, would love to hear your thoughts on itron and Kondo, if you don't mind Thanks in advance

With the Avantgardes, I still like the Auroras, then the Audiopax, maybe then ARC... Sorry, I have no direct experience with iTron or Kondo.

 

[Hear Here]

initially I was thinking about Duo GT for the same reason as yours. Trio + basshorns are beyond humongous and will block my view to the garden….I sometimes regret demoing the Trio G3, because now I cannot live with less…

I feel your pain! Even the Duo XD is too much of a view blocker for me, so I've "ditched the scaffolding" and built a support bracket such that the mid horn tube is suppurted from below, as per the Mezzo. The helpful people at Avantgarde sent me drawings of a suitable Mezzo-like cradle but I went for a steel bracket with the same critical dimensions. I'm very happy! I note that the new G3 Duos are now sans scaffolding.

 

[bonzo75]

initially I was thinking about Duo GT for the same reason as yours. Trio + basshorns are beyond humongous and will block my view to the garden….I sometimes regret demoing the Trio G3, because now I cannot live with less…

For those who cannot get trios, I see no reason to get the smaller brother. Same is the case with Tune Audio Anima and hORNs Universum. I think people are too used to the logic that if we cannot get Dagostino 400, we get the 250, or if we cannot get the ARC Ref 10, we get the lower model. Or in speakers, those who cannot get a big Wilson get the Sasha. I get the logic on the others, definitely not on the three horns brands mentioned above. For smaller speakers than trio better to get Devore Orangutan O96 or Audionec Evo 2, and you can still run with SETs. Diesis at a higher price but still WAF. No reason to think we have to buy the smaller speaker of the same brand

 

[Maril555]

For those who cannot get trios, I see no reason to get the smaller brother. Same is the case with Tune Audio Anima and hORNs Universum. I think people are too used to the logic that if we cannot get Dagostino 400, we get the 250, or if we cannot get the ARC Ref 10, we get the lower model. Or in speakers, those who cannot get a big Wilson get the Sasha. I get the logic on the others, definitely not on the three horns brands mentioned above. For smaller speakers than trio better to get Devore Orangutan O96 or Audionec Evo 2, and you can still run with SETs. Diesis at a higher price but still WAF. No reason to think we have to buy the smaller speaker of the same brand

For what it worth, I went from Avantgarde Duo G2 Omega that I owned for about 15 years to Altec 817/288 following Bonzo’s advice, and to me there is no comparison
You’d never suspect how badly bass is integrated with the horn on Duos until you hear the Altecs, which are orders
Of magnitude better