Trinity DAC

[Elberoth]

Adam, did you read Longinus' Dac shootout report at AE? I loved it.

Yes. He called his experience with Trinity 'a day of Awakening in his entire Hi End Audio Journey'. Which is even more impressive, if you realise that the guy owne a Vivaldi full-stack and Wilsons XLF driven by FMA gear.

Each time when we switched back to dCS, everything seems to be collapsing to a lesser scale. But my mind kept refusing that reality of dCS distanced by the Trinity at such apparent “gap”.

Here is the original thread:

http://audioexotics.hk/index.php?op...ntId=10845&topic=true&Itemid=53&limitstart=20

I'm not that much surprised, as this is exactly the same as what I've heard when I compared my MSB Diamond Plus with Trinity.

 

[Elberoth]

Adam,
It would be interesting to know how this DAC reacts to other power cables - the difference you suggest seems extreme!

The difference was also audible on my MSB monos. I have two of those cables on loan from my dealer, so was able to try them both on the Trinity and the monos (although obviously not at the same time).

On the Trinity, the difference was greater, but that was to be expected as surce components usually show greater power cord differencies. At least that is my experience.

I'm yet to try the Alpha Digital PC on the Trinity. I have seen many positive comments about this PC. I have tried the Anacondas Z-Tron on my monos, and liked them very much.

 

[Al M.]

Yes. He called his experience with Trinity 'a day of Awakening in his entire Hi End Audio Journey'. Which is even more impressive, if you realise that the guy owne a Vivaldi full-stack and Wilsons XLF driven by FMA gear.

Each time when we switched back to dCS, everything seems to be collapsing to a lesser scale. But my mind kept refusing that reality of dCS distanced by the Trinity at such apparent “gap”.

Here is the original thread:

http://audioexotics.hk/index.php?op...ntId=10845&topic=true&Itemid=53&limitstart=20

I'm not that much surprised, as this is exactly the same as what I've heard when I compared my MSB Diamond Plus with Trinity.

Not to argue with the findings themselves (and I have no interest in the game whatsoever since all this is out of my price league), but what struck me was, if I read correctly, that they compared a dCS Vivaldi warmed up for just 30 minutes (well, during the session it might have become an hour or two) with a Trinity DAC that had been on power continuously.

If that is the case indeed, it is a fatal mistake that voids the entire comparison. You simply cannot compare digital components until they have warmed up at least overnight on continuous power. I noticed that once again last year when I had the NAD M51 at home for audition (which ultimately lost in a huge way to the Berkeley Alpha DAC 2 that I ended up purchasing). The first evening after coming from the shop it sounded terrible, plasticky and congested, with no separation of instruments -- in a perfect caricature of all the bad things you can read in reviews of early digital. Only the next morning it started to sound like a real contender. Paul at Goodwin's High End to whom I reported my findings confirmed the observation of mandatory long warm-up. That is why they never disconnect their digital components from power, unless for a few seconds to transport from central rack to listening room.

 

[Elberoth]

Berkeley Alpha DAC 2 can be hardly regarded a reference as far as warmup needed is concerned, as it requires unussually long warm up period. I have owned one in the past, and from my experience it can tak up to 3-4 days before this DAC settles. I have no idea why it takes so long, but it was confirmed (also on this forum) by many users.

In my experience, other DACs do not require as much warm up, and most of them can reach 95% potential after an hour or so. My understanding is that those gents spend much more than 1h listening to both dacs (a full day ?), during which time thay had switched back and forth many times, without powering down the gear.

Further, the result of that shootout seems only to confirm what the Editor in Chief of Audiotechnique had found out, who had several weeks to compare the Trinity to his Vivaldi stack.

 

[wisnon]

Al, fair enough, but I guess Longinus as the owner knows what his dcs stack is capable of fully warm and was STILL convinced.

I too have no skin in the game, just trying to decipher the real juice here.

 

[Al M.]

Berkeley Alpha DAC 2 can be hardly regarded a reference as far as warmup needed is concerned, as it requires unussually long warm up period. I have owned one in the past, and from my experience it can tak up to 3-4 days before this DAC settles. I have no idea why it takes so long, but it was confirmed (also on this forum) by many users.

I was talking about the NAD M51 warm-up, not that of the Berkeley's (which is considerable as well). And yes, several dealers have confirmed in the past that in general you simply cannot compare digital components that have not fully warmed up, which is for more than just a few hours. And *all* high-end manufacturers suggest that their digital components be left on all the time. Hmmm, just why would that be?

 

[Al M.]

Al, fair enough, but I guess Longinus as the owner knows what his dcs stack is capable of fully warm and was STILL convinced.

I too have no skin in the game, just trying to decipher the real juice here.

" but I guess Longinus as the owner knows what his dcs stack is capable of fully warm"

-- in HIS system, which he said was not as good as the one he heard the comparison on.

Perhaps the Trinity DAC really is that much better -- or he made a mistake worth a few ten-thousand dollars. Again, I am not here to defend the dCS Vivaldi which I never could purchase anyway, I am just stating realistic possibilities.

 

[Al M.]

In my experience, other DACs do not require as much warm up, and most of them can reach 95% potential after an hour or so.

And by the way, 95 % is not good enough when it comes to comparisons where subtle differences can be make or break.

 

[Al M.]

Hmmm, just why would that be?

My apologies for that remark, which was uncalled for and unnecessary.

 

[jsn]

jsn - I found this comment posted on AE forum:

POSTED: 04-01-2014 08:18 pm
jsn's previous DAC was CH Precision. He called me this morning and said the Trinity DAC is at least 3 notches higher than the CH.

I belive the original poster reffered to you. Can you elaborate on the differencies between the Trinity and CH ?

The C1 is a all in one Swiss Army Knife. It is a real bargain for the functions and feature at that price.
The Trinity is a better USB DAC.
As I need to do the DRC, I need a better USB DAC so I pick the Trinity DAC. If I don't need the DRC, I can stay with the C1 happily.

The C1 is quite neutral with a hint of warm side. The Trinity DAC is a bit more neutral.
The C1 keeps on reminding me how good it is as a hifi component.
Trinity DAC just gets over all hifi elements and brings me to music scene.

 

[wisnon]

" but I guess Longinus as the owner knows what his dcs stack is capable of fully warm"

-- in HIS system, which he said was not as good as the one he heard the comparison on.

Perhaps the Trinity DAC really is that much better -- or he made a mistake worth a few ten-thousand dollars. Again, I am not here to defend the dCS Vivaldi which I never could purchase anyway, I am just stating realistic possibilities.

Fair enough again. I am not discrediting what you say, just fleshing out the point. So far you do a good job of defending your stance with convincing rebuttals. It is still instructive that Longinus conceded so quickly though. It suggests to me that at least in the short term he had a clear preference. Long term co-habitation is something else though.

Me, I am a tube Dac guy, so am only here because of curiousity and to gain perspective.

 

[Al M.]

It is still instructive that Longinus conceded so quickly though.

Yes, that is striking, I agree. Again, I am not questioning what he heard, just the circumstances. But as Adam pointed out, that shootout seems only to confirm what the Editor in Chief of Audiotechnique had found out, who had several weeks to compare the Trinity to his Vivaldi stack.

 

[Audiocrack]

Fair enough again. I am not discrediting what you say, just fleshing out the point. So far you do a good job of defending your stance with convincing rebuttals. It is still instructive that Longinus conceded so quickly though. It suggest to me that at in in the short term he had a clear preference. Long term co-habitation is something else though.

Me, I am a tube Dac guy, so am only here because of curiousity and to gain perspective.

Well Wisnon, I am a tube dac guy (and a tube guy in general as well using Kondo and Zanden equipment) also although I do own the Dcs Scarlatti because I wanted to be able to play sacd. However, the Trinity dac renders the musical performance in such a way that I do not miss any tubes in the dac. I am using the Trinity combo in a full Zanden (tube) set up. The tonality of the Trinity dac is beautiful, something I also experienced in a full solid state set up at Dietmar's place. My impression is that the Trinity dac is so "musical" on it's own (and at the same time meets all hifi parameters; eg dynamics are stunning, something also noted by Michael Fremer in relation to the Trinity phono and by Marshall Nack in relation to the Trinity preamp) that tubes can be missed.

 

[wisnon]

A-Crack, Recall that I use SS amplification, so my only tubes are in the Dac and I love the blend.

The Lampi tonality is spot on and I love the sound it delivers. I just got it reworked, and was promised another step up (circuit even more simplified, duelund caps instead of Jensens, plus tube roll of recti and output tubes). I need to burn in and re-eveluate for myself and I will let you know down the road.

In the meantime, I am having fun following the Trinity story.

 

[georgemg]

Next March or May, I will travel to Europe, and I hope to listen two DACs I'm interested, the Kalliope's Gryphon and Trinity DAC, the store dealer told me they are waiting the trinity for soon, unfortunately the store does not have DCS, but they have TAD and emm labs. Last year in Munich the best setup was gryphon( IMHO), they demonstrated with their the new DAC that supports DSD, hard to say the importance of kalliope in that context, but recentely here at WBF someone reported that heard the kalliope in Australia against a DAC that cost 3x more, and preferred the kalliope, and was in doubt how it would compare with the vivaldi in the same setup. And now appeared the Nagra DAC HD, so I think is early to draw conclusions, though reports of AE is a hope in the digital journey.

 

[Al M.]

I don't know if that has been mentioned before: why the name Trinity?

 

[Elberoth]

Maybe because the original Trinity from 2005 was a 3-box affair ?

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/trinity_tech_e.html

 

[Jazzhead]

Can anybody confirm , if these are the internals of theTrinity DAC

 

[CKKeung]

Can anybody confirm , if these are the internals of theTrinity DAC

View attachment 13439

Hi Jazzhead,
Yes, your photo shows the interior of the Trinity dac.
Please refer to my post of #112 too.

 

[AudioExplorations]

is anyone aware of plans for a digital volume control implementation? i am not a fan of doing this within the computer/network player for various reasons none of which sound quality related.

does anyone know the output voltage, couldn't find mention of this in the manual. i am assuming it is fixed and non-adjustable?

edit: output impedance also would be of interest, as well as general information on the output stage implementation and ability to drive power amp input stages. current drive, etc