Trinity DAC

[Julf]

Al was being misled to think that DSD was a waste of time because pure DSD didnt exist. It does exists

Fair enough. Yes, "pure" DSD exists, but the vast majority (as in 99.9%?) of recordings sold as DSD recordings are not "pure" in the sense that there has not been any conversions in the path.

even with the microconversion for processing

I am not sure there is a justification to call the conversion from DSD to DSD-wide and back a "microconversion". It is still a conversion, and the processing happens in PCM space - but with just 8 bits of resolution.

its the listening that gives the proof of quality.

Absolutely!

 

[wisnon]

LoL

Your countryman Miska will tell you that there is negligible degradation in the conversion to DSD-w which is PWM not PCM. Even a one time conversion to DXD (whis IS PCM) is not done on the whole track, just places where editing needs to be done.

 

[Julf]

Your countryman Miska will tell you that there is negligible degradation in the conversion

I think each of us should trust our own ears. To me there is no degradation, but to me there is no audible degradation in a DSD-PCM conversion either. Not sure about the other way around.

DSD-w which is PWM not PCM.

Yes and no. It is really a hybrid format. It preserves the DSD DSD sample rate, but encodes the amplitude as a 8-bit PCM value.

Even a one time conversion to DXD (whis IS PCM) is not done on the whole track, just places where editing needs to be done.

Which is fine if all the editing you do is cut/paste/crossfade. If you do gain change or EQ, the editing affects the whole track.

 

[wisnon]

OK, we are essentially agreed.

 

[Julf]

OK, we are essentially agreed.

I essentially agree

 

[microstrip]

i am sorry for my statement, I'm not trying to side track this thread. as i get deeper into this hobby, its just never seems to end. i am not a fanatic and i do enjoy listening to my music . and i do this is many file types and mostly in a portable setup.

its just that i spend more money to achieve a more surreal system these additional pitfalls pop up.

thanks all for the continued input.

al d

Alrainbow,

Your questions are legitimate, and as usual thinks are not black and white, but have many of shades of grey. You will find many interesting facts and answers to your questions in our past threads on these aspects concerning DCS in the expert section The-Pro-Audiophile-By-Bruce-Brown, http://www.whatsbestforum.com/forumdisplay.php?235-The-Pro-Audiophile-By-Bruce-Brown

 

[microstrip]

I think each of us should trust our own ears. To me there is no degradation, but to me there is no audible degradation in a DSD-PCM conversion either. Not sure about the other way around. (...)

Julf,

Trusting our own ears will need many hours during a long time and a lot of effort creating appropriate conditions, unless we want just to confirm our per-established beliefs in a quick listen. I prefer to read from the "experts" I can trust (and here each of us has his preferences) and reduce my effort of critical listening to a minimum time. IMHO it is the real utility of good audio forums, other than information and entertainment.

My advice would be "stop worrying and enjoy the music"

Sorry, I am sure it was not your intention, but this expression has been used too frequently to denigrate audiophiles that I can not read it without asking what you exactly mean wit it.

 

[Julf]

Trusting our own ears will need many hours during a long time and a lot of effort creating appropriate conditions, unless we want just to confirm our per-established beliefs in a quick listen. I prefer to read from the "experts" I can trust (and here each of us has his preferences) and reduce my effort of critical listening to a minimum time. IMHO it is the real utility of good audio forums, other than information and entertainment.

I think we are reasonably close to a consensus that listening is a very subjective activity, and people have very different preferences. How can I know that any random person on the Internet (or an audio magazine reviewer for that matter) happens to like the same things I like? Especially as people in both magazines and on the net seem to disagree with each other about most things...

Sorry, I am sure it was not your intention, but this expression has been used too frequently to denigrate audiophiles that I can not read it without asking what you exactly mean wit it.

Why would any audiophile take offence at the statement "enjoy the music". The reason I said it is that there are a lot of people who worry needlessly about whether their systems could maybe possibly be even better than they are now, and loose sight of the fact that what matters is whether they enjoy the music or not.

 

[Elberoth]

Audiocrack - what power cord are you using with the Trinity ? Have you experimented with setup ? Did you try the Halcyonics base under the DAC ?

I have just discovered that the DAC is extremely sensitive to power cords. I have swapped the PC for the extremely expensive Acrolink Mexel 9500, and my system become unlistenable - dry, thin and flat. Than I have returned to my trusty Acustic Zen Gargantua II - and the magic is back.

It seems that also the computer you use makes a big difference. I have switch from my hi-man server (i5, gobs of fast RAM, SSD, fanless Seasonic PSU and all SOtM bits, including the SOtM audiophile USB card) to the tiny Caps V3 on dual Teddy Pardo linear PSUs and the difference was huge ! Much more clarity, more resolution, even blacker background. I could alsmost hear the noise my hi-man server was injecting into the AC line (or into the USB) !

Now I wonder, if that is the sensitivity of the DAC, or - which I think is the case - the inreased resolution lets you hear things that you didn't notice before.

 

[Audiocrack]

Audiocrack - what power cord are you using with the Trinity ? Have you experimented with setup ? Did you try the Halcyonics base under the DAC ?

I have just discovered that the DAC is extremely sensitive to power cords. I have swapped the PC for the extremely expensive Acrolink Mexel 9500, and my system become unlistenable - dry, thin and flat. Than I have returned to my trusty Acustic Zen Gargantua II - and the magic is back.

It seems that also the computer you use makes a big difference. I have switch from my hi-man server (i5, gobs of fast RAM, SSD, fanless Seasonic PSU and all SOtM bits, including the SOtM audiophile USB card) to the tiny Caps V3 on dual Teddy Pardo linear PSUs and the difference was huge ! Much more clarity, more resolution, even blacker background. I could alsmost hear the noise my hi-man server was injecting into the AC line (or into the USB) !

Now I wonder, if that is the sensitivity of the DAC, or - which I think is the case - the inreased resolution lets you hear things that you didn't notice before.

Adam, I use my trusted Taralabs cobalt powercord with the Trinity dac. Because It sounded so tremendously good from the very first moment on I did not change the powercord. For the Trinity transport I just use a regular powercord, that is nothing special, and I have not yet tried another powercord of higher quality. Do I understand you correctly that I should experiment with powercords on the transport?
As I mentioned earlier the Trinity transport sounds better than the computer Dietmar was using before he launched his Trinity transport. I did not combine the Halcyonics devices with the Trinity dac or Trinity transport. But I will as soon I have the impression that I am completely familiar with the Trinity combo so that I am able to reach the right conclusions.
The Trinity combo is indeed incredible revealing (although never in a clinical or harsh way in my set up) so you are probably right that you hear things more clearly than you used to do. I am so impressed by the (musical) performance of the Trinity combo using high res files that I still have to discover how it performs with cd's. I will do this the coming weeks although I have only time to listen to my system during the weekends. I am very grateful to be one of the first persons on this planet to be able to listen to this tremendous combo.

 

[Elberoth]

Oh, lucky you ! I do not have the Trinity transport so I'm not able to tell how it compares to sth like Caps v3 on Teddy PSUs or batteries.

The Trinity Transport may have same PSU as the Trinity DAC / preamp, which may be the reason it degrades the sound less than a regular computer with el cheapo PSU brick.

 

[edorr]

Adam, I use my trusted Taralabs cobalt powercord with the Trinity dac. Because It sounded so tremendously good from the very first moment on I did not change the powercord. For the Trinity transport I just use a regular powercord, that is nothing special, and I have not yet tried another powercord of higher quality. Do I understand you correctly that I should experiment with powercords on the transport?

I would give the new Shunyata Alpha digital PC a whirl. I use one on my DAC and modded Oppo and they work extremely well.

 

[wisnon]

Adam, I use my trusted Taralabs cobalt powercord with the Trinity dac. Because It sounded so tremendously good from the very first moment on I did not change the powercord. For the Trinity transport I just use a regular powercord, that is nothing special, and I have not yet tried another powercord of higher quality. Do I understand you correctly that I should experiment with powercords on the transport?
As I mentioned earlier the Trinity transport sounds better than the computer Dietmar was using before he launched his Trinity transport. I did not combine the Halcyonics devices with the Trinity dac or Trinity transport. But I will as soon I have the impression that I am completely familiar with the Trinity combo so that I am able to reach the right conclusions.
The Trinity combo is indeed incredible revealing (although never in a clinical or harsh way in my set up) so you are probably right that you hear things more clearly than you used to do. I am so impressed by the (musical) performance of the Trinity combo using high res files that I still have to discover how it performs with cd's. I will do this the coming weeks although I have only time to listen to my system during the weekends. I am very grateful to be one of the first persons on this planet to be able to listen to this tremendous combo.

Does it make a difference to swap the PCs between the Dac and Transport?

 

[Audiocrack]

I would give the new Shunyata Alpha digital PC a whirl. I use one on my DAC and modded Oppo and they work extremely well.

Thanks much Edorr. I am unfamiliar with the Shunyata cables.

 

[microstrip]

I think we are reasonably close to a consensus that listening is a very subjective activity, and people have very different preferences. How can I know that any random person on the Internet (or an audio magazine reviewer for that matter) happens to like the same things I like? Especially as people in both magazines and on the net seem to disagree with each other about most things...

Why would any audiophile take offence at the statement "enjoy the music". The reason I said it is that there are a lot of people who worry needlessly about whether their systems could maybe possibly be even better than they are now, and loose sight of the fact that what matters is whether they enjoy the music or not.

Julf,

IMHO, "experts" are not random persons on the Internet. Unfortunately, some current "authorities " just post a few lines as an opinion. My preference goes to people who have written many long and extend reviews since long, or produce work, such as recordings or equipment I can appreciate and judge by my myself. We can show our preferences in the selection of the experts we want to trust. And for many audiophiles, improving their systems and the associated activities are a source of enjoyment. BTW, we can learn a lot from disagreement from good writers or reviewers.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I have just discovered that the DAC is extremely sensitive to power cords. I have swapped the PC for the extremely expensive Acrolink Mexel 9500, and my system become unlistenable - dry, thin and flat. Than I have returned to my trusty Acustic Zen Gargantua II - and the magic is back.

Adam,
It would be interesting to know how this DAC reacts to other power cables - the difference you suggest seems extreme!

 

[georgemg]

Someone heard the trinity Dac at CES, was in the same room as the Chprecison DAC!

Gm.

 

[Audiocrack]

Someone heard the trinity Dac at CES, was in the same room as the Chprecison DAC!

Gm.

Are you sure it was the dac? And not the Trinity preamp and phono?

 

[jsn]

Are you sure it was the dac? And not the Trinity preamp and phono?

From Trinity site:
http://www.trinity-ed.de/typo/
It should be preamp and phono:
07-10 January
Audioarts NYC present Trinity Phono and Preamp at the CES International - Las Vegas, Venetian Tower - Suite 29-226.
.

 

[georgemg]

thanks guys, I saw the picture and got the impression that was the trinity DAC, is really unthinkable two different DACs in the same room.