Got you. Because Troy connects to chassis screws, Entreq only to input jacks, there's a lot of scope to use Troy on sockets, strips, conditioners, filters, transformers, psus, etc etc. More possibilities than Entreq. It seems like the rf/emi/electronic hash swirling around our systems is always trying to return to earth, and w/out grounding is free to re enter the system and accumulate all the time. My guess is grounding is providing a common impedance sink for these gremlins to be channeled right out of the system not via the mains and hence be eliminated irreversibly.
Tripoint troy signature grounding device
- Thread starter Audiocrack
- Start date
I think that is a good observation about Tripoint. That said, you can use your Entreq stuff to do the same. I believe they make spade to spade grounding cables for the Entreq...just use those to ground chassis screws. In fact, I think Entreq make RCA-spade, spade-spade and XLR-spade...they even do digital/CAT to spade grounding cable for digital equipment.
True although Entreq do provide solutions for grounding and cleaning the mains too...I use an Entreq Atlantis CleanUs which plugs into my mains and which connects to a Silver Tellus ground box. In addition my Atlantis power cables also have ground cables which connect back to a Silver Tellus ground box. I wonder if Entreq isn't achieving the same thing but in a different way.
Guillaume
Lloyd and Guillame, I'm mindful of the fact that this is a Troy thread, and it may drive the originators crazy if we keep referring to Entreq (esp. any reference to price comparisons).
I'm actually not sure if these Entreq spade-spade ground leads are to be used for chassis grounding (via casework screws), a la Troy. From everything I've gleaned about how Entreq and Troy work, Entreq is signal grounding (via input/output jacks), and Troy is chassis grounding. The end results may be comparable, but the methods are maybe not interchangeable.
Lloyd, this may be about to change w/the release of the new Entreq product that you alluded to a while back, but were reluctant to discuss (you're a beta tester, maybe?). I'll respect your desire not to talk fully about it, but from what I've gleaned about it from the UK distributor, it seems to address the chassis grounding aspects that Entreq hasn't addressed before. So soon Entreq will have a comprehensive solution for signal grounding (Silver Tellus/Atlantis), mains grounding (Powerus/Cleanus), and finally possibly chassis grounding (TBA), the combination of this a step or two beyond what Troy offers.
Again, before I'm flamed for not sticking to Troy, all of us here who've bought into the concept are fully sold on grounding, but there are a few different steps to Heaven, and positive discussion of both Troy and Entreq can be nothing other than positive all 'round in spreading the word for both being SOTA solutions to dramatically enhance the listening experience.
I'm actually not sure if these Entreq spade-spade ground leads are to be used for chassis grounding (via casework screws), a la Troy. From everything I've gleaned about how Entreq and Troy work, Entreq is signal grounding (via input/output jacks), and Troy is chassis grounding. The end results may be comparable, but the methods are maybe not interchangeable.
Lloyd, this may be about to change w/the release of the new Entreq product that you alluded to a while back, but were reluctant to discuss (you're a beta tester, maybe?). I'll respect your desire not to talk fully about it, but from what I've gleaned about it from the UK distributor, it seems to address the chassis grounding aspects that Entreq hasn't addressed before. So soon Entreq will have a comprehensive solution for signal grounding (Silver Tellus/Atlantis), mains grounding (Powerus/Cleanus), and finally possibly chassis grounding (TBA), the combination of this a step or two beyond what Troy offers.
Again, before I'm flamed for not sticking to Troy, all of us here who've bought into the concept are fully sold on grounding, but there are a few different steps to Heaven, and positive discussion of both Troy and Entreq can be nothing other than positive all 'round in spreading the word for both being SOTA solutions to dramatically enhance the listening experience.
Hey Spirit,
speaking for myself, no sweat. All threads expand and contract around the original topic, and this hardly off-topic given that its the two leading names right now (I think) in these kinds of grounding solutions.
If you speak with Kog, I think you will probably find them open minded to grounding chassis.
Secondly, in terms of the other product, yes I am not sure if I can discuss now or not. You and I have discussed off-line after I got permission to do so from Kog/Entreq. I now have 5...crazy but they really WORK. I think its fair to say once you've taken the initial 'hit' of getting a big grounding base, then grounding chassis, grounding signal and also this new Entreq product...are all 'incremental costs...but huge improvements'...which is nice and refreshing for a change in high-end audio.
...oh and as everyone already knows if they've been following, I am a big fan of both Entreq and Tripoint, and use both in my system. Tripoint Troy SE with Thor PC...4 standard Tripoint grounding cables that came with the the Troy (for the chassis grounds)...2 Entreq Atlantis (grounding signal of CJ and Zanden), and 5 Entreq 'Product X' which connect via grounding cables as a new/further way of eliminating emi/rfi/grunge and eliminating it into the grounding box.
OMG, Lloyd. This is just too much temptation. I'm desperate 
for one/all of these upgrade paths to not do it for me. I potentially, w.my balanced transformer, could spend near to two thirds of the capital cost of my system on fully maxxing out grounding upgrades (Silver Tellus/Atlantis add on box/Powerus/Cleanus/a dozen of product X also neccessitating another Silver Tellus/upwards of 20 Atlantis leads).
Interestingly, I actually didn't get on w/my initial experience of going to the add-on Atlantis box (seemed to introduce some smear - maybe a ground lead upgrade issue), so who knows.
for one/all of these upgrade paths to not do it for me. I potentially, w.my balanced transformer, could spend near to two thirds of the capital cost of my system on fully maxxing out grounding upgrades (Silver Tellus/Atlantis add on box/Powerus/Cleanus/a dozen of product X also neccessitating another Silver Tellus/upwards of 20 Atlantis leads).Interestingly, I actually didn't get on w/my initial experience of going to the add-on Atlantis box (seemed to introduce some smear - maybe a ground lead upgrade issue), so who knows.
OMG, Lloyd. This is just too much temptation. I'm desperate
Interestingly, I actually didn't get on w/my initial experience of going to the add-on Atlantis box (seemed to introduce some smear - maybe a ground lead upgrade issue), so who knows.
Speaking for myself...with the Apollo cables, I have consistently recommended people NOT upgrade the Silver Tellus grounding box by adding the Atlantis grounding box as the next upgrade step. Instead, I have recommended upgrading to the Atlantis grounding cables FIRST.
That said, I did find the Atlantis grounding box DOES improve the Apollo cables and Silver Tellus grounding box combination...just not nearly as much for the money as upgrading to the Atlantis cables.
As for your finding that adding the Atlantis grounding box 'smeared', I am really surprised to hear that...really surprised. Assuming you made no changes other than adding the Atlantis grounding box, I can only surmise:
1. You have an effect I have not experienced. Entirely possible.
2. I myself found that 'smearing became very apparent' with better and better grounding, because I realized after going back to my original setup...that layers and layers of compounded 'thickness' across certain spectrums of music were being refined and refined so much, eventually I heard far more details within that spectrum of music...INCLUDING smearing at certain specific frequencies are areas.
I did not hear the smearing before...mainly because the entire spectrum band surrounding the smear was not clear in general...smoothed over. Nice, unobjectionable but not as detailed as post-grounding. And it was ONLY thru this continued clarification of the music that suddenly a broad, generic, smooth band became a detailed set of instruments, notes, details...
...with an outlier of smearing in one area. And THEN, by being able to then go back and refine to reduce that new-found smearing, it has allowed me to continue to purify the signal.
At least, that is what has happened in my system.
Lloyd, what my isolated negative experiences re Entreq have demonstrated to me is three things. One, as in all things high end, YMMV. Eg after the initial high of grounding the preamp solely, a second Apollo to my phono stage really didn't work, just making analogue sound muddy. I turned away from this option. Weeks later I changed to my current Soundsmith Straingauge, reluctantly gave grounding lp replay a second go, and blow me down!, grounding really worked. From then on, I quickly added further Apollos to cdp and monoblocks, and got a cumulative impvt. next up is grounding my Zu sub amps when they come back factory-modded w/ground posts.
Two, despite the nay sayers prob thinking the whole thing is a giant placebo effect (in actuality, nothing wrong w/this, placebo actually being a positive facet of human psychology), my negative experience proves I'm not easily led, sheep-like, into a high price scam.
Three, you're prob right that Atlantis cables need to be the upgrade across the board before I consider the Atlantis add-on box - there may be a bottleneck in grounding w/Apollo cables v Atlantis cables, which actually scuppers the effects of the Atlantis box.
My next round of possible grounding is going to commence at the end of the yr, and my debate is whether to go for all-Atlantis cables, consider Entreq product "X" on individual components that you are raving about, or concentrate on grounding the mains/my balanced transformer via Entreq Powerus/Cleanus.
Two, despite the nay sayers prob thinking the whole thing is a giant placebo effect (in actuality, nothing wrong w/this, placebo actually being a positive facet of human psychology), my negative experience proves I'm not easily led, sheep-like, into a high price scam.
Three, you're prob right that Atlantis cables need to be the upgrade across the board before I consider the Atlantis add-on box - there may be a bottleneck in grounding w/Apollo cables v Atlantis cables, which actually scuppers the effects of the Atlantis box.
My next round of possible grounding is going to commence at the end of the yr, and my debate is whether to go for all-Atlantis cables, consider Entreq product "X" on individual components that you are raving about, or concentrate on grounding the mains/my balanced transformer via Entreq Powerus/Cleanus.
Decisions decisions decisions!
I did go for the Atlantis box before upgrading all the earth cables to Atlantis/Apollo and it worked for me.
However, I made that choice because the two silver Tellus and the one Silver Minimus were pretty well at their full capacity and I judged that the boost from the Atlantis to the two Silver Tellus was the better choice.
It worked but the bigger jump in performance came with the addition of three Apollo balanced i/cs to the DCS Puccini, MD 108T and Whest Phono stage. They really did make a big improvement to the sound quality.
The priorities obviously depend on the make up of different systems but really impressed with the Apollo balanced i/cs.
Not sure if that helps you Mark but there it is for what it is worth,
Good luck with that, Spiritofmusic,
Let me know if you have any questions, PM or post. Happy to share my experiences having had the benefit of playing thru several iterations on a few occasions with grounding. I am not sure I can discuss the Entreq Receivus but I have at least added it to my signature block now. Definitely try it when you can.
Let me know if you have any questions, PM or post. Happy to share my experiences having had the benefit of playing thru several iterations on a few occasions with grounding. I am not sure I can discuss the Entreq Receivus but I have at least added it to my signature block now. Definitely try it when you can.
Yes, that makes sense...capacity is an issue. Speaking with Fraser, when he saw the 14 leads to the Tripoint he admitted it was still functioning perfectly and clearly had lots of capacity. I think the Atlantis adds that same capacity more or less to the Silver Tellus so given the number of units you are talking about, I think that probably is a good move. Capacity seems to be a part of this as well...don't ask me how or why.
I have very little doubt this thing rocks the house...I have compared tripoint standard to entreq Apollo and to the upgraded Atlantis. The Atlantis is my favourite...but I would not be surprised if Thor goes a whole level up yet again. Pure gut instinct and speaking with 2-3 people who've heard it in and out of a system.
I have PM'd you Lloyd, since you're a little ahead of the curve on all this. I think my best next options are to ground my Zu sub amps when they arrive (making total of 7 Apollos to S. Tellus), then consider upgrading Apollo leads to Atlantis leads, then Atlantis add-on box, then consider Powerus multi way, and Cleanus (connecting to Powerus AND S. Tellus). I may follow Guillame's advice and separate source components and power components grounding, necessitating a second S. Tellus. And finally investigate Receivus, w/a potential of 8 components covered. I will really examine each tier carefully, and the moment big impvts aren't wrought I close my chequebook.
But there is the possibility of 2 S. Tellus/1 Atlantis/1 Powerus/1 Cleanus/8 Receivus/16 Atlantis leads, all on top of my balanced transformer. Don't even ask the cost!!!
But there is the possibility of 2 S. Tellus/1 Atlantis/1 Powerus/1 Cleanus/8 Receivus/16 Atlantis leads, all on top of my balanced transformer. Don't even ask the cost
!!!I have PM'd you Lloyd, since you're a little ahead of the curve on all this. I think my best next options are to ground my Zu sub amps when they arrive (making total of 7 Apollos to S. Tellus), then consider upgrading Apollo leads to Atlantis leads, then Atlantis add-on box, then consider Powerus multi way, and Cleanus (connecting to Powerus AND S. Tellus). I may follow Guillame's advice and separate source components and power components grounding, necessitating a second S. Tellus. And finally investigate Receivus, w/a potential of 8 components covered. I will really examine each tier carefully, and the moment big impvts aren't wrought I close my chequebook.
But there is the possibility of 2 S. Tellus/1 Atlantis/1 Powerus/1 Cleanus/8 Receivus/16 Atlantis leads, all on top of my balanced transformer. Don't even ask the cost
You shoulda gone with a Tripoint Emperor! (kidding...
) Personally, given the number of components you are trying to cover...I would suggest:Option 1
- Add more 'capacity'...another Silver Tellus
- stick with Apollos for now...hopefully Kog will look after you if you upgrade to Altantis later.
- maybe stick 1 or 2 Atlantis in strategic places...preamp/source only
Option 2
- Go for Powerus and attack that element.
I suspect this will be a binary decision. Try the Powerus and the Silver Tellus with a few Apollos. You will likely find in your system one or the other is better...and then head down that route and FINISH it.
Then continue to the other route at a later date.
That is my initial instinct...and I strongly suspect Kog will support whatever you want to do in terms of auditioning various equipment. Good luck. PM'd responded.
Well Lloyd, I need to get to the bottom of my poor Atlantis experience if next wave of grounding is to be fruitful. Whether it was a result as you suggest scuppered by Atlantis box working maximally w/Atlantis leads ONLY, Apollos not helping at this level, or a real case of YMMV.
My foray into balanced power has been really marked, Fraser will help make the decision to poss look at Powerus/Cleanus ahead of Atlantis leads/box.
Receivus may be icing on the cake, and best left as a nice bonus performance at end of all this.
So Atlantis leads/Atlantis box/Powerus-Cleanus. What order will I go in?
My foray into balanced power has been really marked, Fraser will help make the decision to poss look at Powerus/Cleanus ahead of Atlantis leads/box.
Receivus may be icing on the cake, and best left as a nice bonus performance at end of all this.
So Atlantis leads/Atlantis box/Powerus-Cleanus. What order will I go in?
Out of politeness to the Troy guys, Audiocrack etc, I'm going to direct future comments to my originated Entreq thread. Sorry if i've muscled in on your party .
.Out of politeness to the Troy guys, Audiocrack etc, I'm going to direct future comments to my originated Entreq thread. Sorry if i've muscled in on your party
Reviewing Tripoint without Entreq is like reviewing Coke without Pepsi. The reality...its all about grounding and both are doing a great job. I say carry on...
Well Lloyd, when my tt thread on another forum got a little hijacked, I got a little uppity. This gesture was just out of politeness in that the Troy thread has morphed into more of an Entreq one, and we're the chief perpetrators LOL!!!
Ok, if Audiocrack, Jazzhead et al don't feel like their noses have been put out of joint by too much Entreq-centric comments, I'll contribute to BOTH threads.
You're in the enviable position on running both brands, and are in the best position to describe the similarities and differences.
I really do hope that all these effusively positive comments, for both Troy AND Entreq, are getting many more curious.
Ok, if Audiocrack, Jazzhead et al don't feel like their noses have been put out of joint by too much Entreq-centric comments, I'll contribute to BOTH threads.
You're in the enviable position on running both brands, and are in the best position to describe the similarities and differences.
I really do hope that all these effusively positive comments, for both Troy AND Entreq, are getting many more curious.
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