Tripoint troy signature grounding device

[Barry2013]

I am continuing in this thread as the question I want to address is applicable to both Troy and Entreq systems
It is whether it is more effective to earth every component and signal cable in a system even if initially that may involve using some less expensive earth cables while ensuring adequate ground box capacity or is it better to earth only part of the system's components with higher quality earthing.
In my case I have opted for the former with every single component and signal cable earthed including the AV amp and Sky box but not the Blu Ray player which is switched off when not in use. On the assumption that the EMI is contagious and affects every part of the system irrespective of its source that would suggest that that approach should be more effective than the latter, but I freely confess to not knowing the answer.
Hopefully other better qualified members may be able to help us failing which we'll need to address the question to Per and Miguel or to Fraser who is the UK (European?) Entreq distributor.
It maybe that the answer will also depend on the quality of the mains supply and the nature of the system's home but it would certainly be helpful to have a definitive answer or informed guidance

 

[LL21]

I am continuing in this thread as the question I want to address is applicable to both Troy and Entreq systems
It is whether it is more effective to earth every component and signal cable in a system even if initially that may involve using some less expensive earth cables while ensuring adequate ground box capacity or is it better to earth only part of the system's components with higher quality earthing.
In my case I have opted for the former with every single component and signal cable earthed including the AV amp and Sky box but not the Blu Ray player which is switched off when not in use. On the assumption that the EMI is contagious and affects every part of the system irrespective of its source that would suggest that that approach should be more effective than the latter, but I freely confess to not knowing the answer.
Hopefully other better qualified members may be able to help us failing which we'll need to address the question to Per and Miguel or to Fraser who is the UK (European?) Entreq distributor.
It maybe that the answer will also depend on the quality of the mains supply and the nature of the system's home but it would certainly be helpful to have a definitive answer or informed guidance

Great question! My own personal experience:

1. Each time I ground, I get more of the same improvement
2. Sometimes however, despite the improvement, the balance of the system does change...and thus it can take me 2-3 changes to get back to the original character/voice of my system...but now with all the benefits of the new grounding in terms of clarity, natural tone, etc
Therefore, I think you are on the right track...and personally have done similar...except I have added Atlantis cables in 3 places, and it has reduced the number of changes required from 3 to just the one change each time. It is that good. YMMV.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Barry, I'm running my audio off a separate consumer unit/dedicated spur/dedicated balanced power transformer, and I'm happy there's minimal "bleed thru" from the AV to the audio, although guess I could be incorrect in this.
The venture into grounding is borderline OCD w/out going The Whole Monty. If you get positive changes grounding everything possible, and can foot the bill, you should consider it. Me? I'm going to stick w/maxxing the audio out only. I mean, one can really go crazy on this - I believe the Troy customers in Asia w/deep deep pockets, many who frequent the Audio Exotics world ground EACH chassis' multiple times, plus tonearms, cables and power cords, power strips, transformers and even consumer units.
That's why I think Miguel has released the uber Emperor, w/capacity to ground 60+ components. I'd need all that potential if I was going to ground my 15 components on average twice, and my cable loom etc.

 

[Barry2013]

The comprehensive approach seems instinctively right to me and not inconsistent with your experience.
Adding the better earth cables may affect the balance of the system but as Roy Gregory found some components may work better with some earth cables than with others. Fraser did tell me some time ago when I first tried an Atlantis earth taht they don't always work in every system.
The other question now (see my very recent Entreq post) is where in any order of priority do you place the Receivus?

 

[Barry2013]

Barry, I'm running my audio off a separate consumer unit/dedicated spur/dedicated balanced power transformer, and I'm happy there's minimal "bleed thru" from the AV to the audio, although guess I could be incorrect in this.
The venture into grounding is borderline OCD w/out going The Whole Monty. If you get positive changes grounding everything possible, and can foot the bill, you should consider it. Me? I'm going to stick w/maxxing the audio out only. I mean, one can really go crazy on this - I believe the Troy customers in Asia w/deep deep pockets, many who frequent the Audio Exotics world ground EACH chassis' multiple times, plus tonearms, cables and power cords, power strips, transformers and even consumer units.
That's why I think Miguel has released the uber Emperor, w/capacity to ground 60+ components. I'd need all that potential if I was going to ground my 15 components on average twice, and my cable loom etc.

Yes I agree you can take this to extremes and perhaps fortunately few of us are in the position to do so. I have enough cables already and the prospect of 60 plus grounding cables doesn't bear thinking about.
That said it seems to me that my question as to priorities is still very relevant and hopefully we can get an authoritative answer to guide us and others.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Only one way to find out, Barry. Get a spare S. Tellus and Apollos/Atlantis' from Fraser, and get connecting. Before you know it, you'll be able to hang all your laundry to dry on the plethora of cables in your lounge !!!
For me, a big decision will be whether to split power and source components' grounding onto separate S. Tellus', as per Guillame's suggestion. He's adamant keeping the power components grounded separately provides big dividends. My hope will be that a single Atlantis add on box can support two S. Tellus'.
I've decided, if I ever go this far, I'll bow out at the 2x S. Tellus/Atlantis/Powerus/Cleanus/8 Receivus'/15+ Apollo or Atlantis cable tally.
There'll be no scope for grounding the AV side.

 

[Barry2013]

Only one way to find out, Barry. Get a spare S. Tellus and Apollos/Atlantis' from Fraser, and get connecting. Before you know it, you'll be able to hang all your laundry to dry on the plethora of cables in your lounge !!!
For me, a big decision will be whether to split power and source components' grounding onto separate S. Tellus', as per Guillame's suggestion. He's adamant keeping the power components grounded separately provides big dividends. My hope will be that a single Atlantis add on box can support two S. Tellus'.
I've decided, if I ever go this far, I'll bow out at the 2x S. Tellus/Atlantis/Powerus/Cleanus/8 Receivus'/15+ Apollo or Atlantis cable tally.
There'll be no scope for grounding the AV side.

Thanks Mark. Had me chuckling away there!
My components are split between the two as Guillame suggests and yes an Atlantis box will support two Silver Tellus as it does in my system.
I am hoping for a scientific answer to my question if only to save me having to do a practical experiment!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Barry, I know that grounding works on straightforward scientific principles, but making decisions on what sounds good/works well, or doesn't, is back to a purely subjective/YMMV experience.
Ie, why did grounding my previous phono really not work, yet using the same lead on my Soundsmith Straingauge SG200 energiser box really do the business?
Why am I getting better results grounding the earth terminal of my Hovland pre over Fraser's recommended grounding of a spare input jack closest to the active sources being used?
Why was my initial Atlantis add on box experience so forgettable ie S. Tellus w/5 Apollos TOTALLY superior to the same plus Atlantis box/Atlantis umbilical to the S. Tellus?
What I'm happy about is that I'm not being bamboozled/hypnotised by grounding hence not giving my cash away w/wild abandon. I may find that any grounding beyond this point is imperceptible/law of diminishing returns, and I'll be happy to stick here. Or I'll find Atlantis leads/Atlantis box/Powerus/Cleanus/multiple Receivus' gives me a sufficient hike each time, and my smile widens (until I check my bank balance !).

 

[LL21]

...The other question now (see my very recent Entreq post) is where in any order of priority do you place the Receivus?

This is purely instinct and 1 sample set of experiments...so no golden rules here. I found the most benefit on top of the amp and power supplies...but in truth I still found benefit on top of the transport towards the back where the i2s/power cables are, and on top of the DAC itself.

I consistently preferred Detached Receivus to Attached Receivus...both excellent. Attached very disciplined, very very clear, just in comparison to Detached Receivus + Apollo...a teeny, teeny bit of hardness in the presentation at the microdynamic level. Those small nuances become more mellifluous with the Detached Receivus + Apollo in my system.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Lloyd, what do you think of my contention that Receivus is Entreq's take on the chassis grounding favoured by Troy? In my year of dealing w/Fraser of Entreq, he's NEVER advised chassis grounding via casewk screws as Miguel majors on, even when I suggested it - in fact he's emphasised the Entreq system is signal plane driven, not chassis plane driven a la Troy.
I do suspect this is Entreq starting to address this aspect of chassis grounding seeing how successful Troy has been here, although as in all things market driven, it makes business sense to approach this area in a different way ie Receivus' sitting on components than ground leads screwed into chassis'.
Tbh, if this isn't chassis grounding, and you believe Entreq are positive to Troy-style chassis screw leads, if you wanted to go down the tot OTT OCD signal plane/mains grounding/Receivus'/AND chassis screw grounding, that would be literally 3 dozen + leads, surely totally overkill.

 

[Audiocrack]

Very tempted , Audiocrack has had great results using ....
View attachment 17003View attachment 17004

You will not regret buying this very special Tripoint grounding cable, Jazzhead. Believe me: you have not heard the full potential of your Tripoint Troy se yet.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Audiocrack, it's truly scary/exhilirating to think that the performance envelope of our chosen components is so expanded by the application of grounding, whether Troy wrt Emperor/Thor leads, or Entreq wrt Atlantis/Receivus etc, that upper end potential may be truly limitless.
It seems that at the Troy end of the market, you have a choice btwn Thor cables and Dalby, the latter seeming to be favoured at the recent Audio Exotics Super Show, to set you back a cool $15k! Each!!!
I've listened to a couple of lps recently that I love and thought I knew every note of. Backwards. Incl Thin Lizzy "Shades Of A Blue Orphanage", early 70's original Decca recording. I've just heard it for the first time since I've introduced Entreq grounding, and it was totally fresh and suprising. Almost like a remix, but a good one, where the soul of the original analog warmth is retained fully, but w/a plethora of not so much as new detail emerging, but subliminal spatial and temporal cues apparent, which make you more aware of the acoustic ambience, and hopefully w/out being too pretentious, the message the musicians had in mind. I get changes trading up components, but no upgrade has ever given me this greater insight into the music that Entreq grounding does.

 

[Audiocrack]

Agree with you Spirit (though I have never heard any of the Entreq products) that 'grounding' through Tripoint Troy se and Tripoint grounding cables has become a crucial part of my both audio systems. The differences before and after 'grounding' were profound. In fact I am of the opinion that music lovers/audiophiles have not heard their systems without proper 'grounding'.

As regards Dalby grounding cables: I have not heard them. However, I know how good Miguels cables are and how painstakingly they are manufactured. combining the Tripoint Thor se with the Thor se grounding cables (and I suppose the Tripoint emperor which I will do later this year) is a marriage made in heaven. So no reason for me to think seriously about other grounding cables. Please keep in mind that the AE website and the people behind it are in large part commercially driven. I find the number of different cables and different products these people come up with every two weeks or so rather amusing.
You know, the Tripoint Thor se grounding cable is so extremely good and works so extremely well with the Tripoint Troy, why bother to introduce new cables again and again? Creating hype after hype does not make any sense to me apart of course if you take AE's commercial point of view into account. I would hope their customers are able to listen critically and choose with their ears rather than following the created hypes.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Agreed Audiocrack, and obv likely to be a great synergy keeping it all-Troy. My main criticism of the AE crowd is their brutal disposal of brands that were flavour of the month one day, then also rans the next, eg Neodio, Stahl Tek - you can't get chat on these any more for love or money, 3 years ago they were all the rage. Kudos to Miguel, he seems to be keeping Troy at the forefront, but I bet it's hard work, and I think his decision to release Emperor is in part due to the Asian high high high end almost insisting on more and more uncompromising equipment w/even more uncompromising pricetags. That's not a slight on Emperor, which I'm sure excels, but when you have well heeled HK owners grounding components multiple times, as well as cable looms, the insanity goes on! I think Dalby at $15k a pop fits into this all too well.

 

[Barry2013]

This is purely instinct and 1 sample set of experiments...so no golden rules here. I found the most benefit on top of the amp and power supplies...but in truth I still found benefit on top of the transport towards the back where the i2s/power cables are, and on top of the DAC itself.

I consistently preferred Detached Receivus to Attached Receivus...both excellent. Attached very disciplined, very very clear, just in comparison to Detached Receivus + Apollo...a teeny, teeny bit of hardness in the presentation at the microdynamic level. Those small nuances become more mellifluous with the Detached Receivus + Apollo in my system.

Thanks Lloyd.
Very interesting and helpful.
Maybe there are some system dependency issues with these products.

 

[Audiocrack]

I talked intensively and many times with Miguel about the Tripoint emperor. I know I can trust him when he claims that the emperor is performing at an all different level: Miguel has very good and trained ears and everything he has predicted to me turned out to be correct in the context of my two (critical and revealing) systems. In particular the purity of tone and dynamics of the emperor are supposedly out of this world. Anyway, I will found out in about two months.

I am not sure though if I will post my experiences with the Tripoint emperor on the WBF because the 'outrageous price brigade' will surely be activated and present it's (uninformed) opinion very eloquently.

 

[LL21]

Lloyd, what do you think of my contention that Receivus is Entreq's take on the chassis grounding favoured by Troy? In my year of dealing w/Fraser of Entreq, he's NEVER advised chassis grounding via casewk screws as Miguel majors on, even when I suggested it - in fact he's emphasised the Entreq system is signal plane driven, not chassis plane driven a la Troy.
I do suspect this is Entreq starting to address this aspect of chassis grounding seeing how successful Troy has been here, although as in all things market driven, it makes business sense to approach this area in a different way ie Receivus' sitting on components than ground leads screwed into chassis'.
Tbh, if this isn't chassis grounding, and you believe Entreq are positive to Troy-style chassis screw leads, if you wanted to go down the tot OTT OCD signal plane/mains grounding/Receivus'/AND chassis screw grounding, that would be literally 3 dozen + leads, surely totally overkill.

Honestly, I cannot say but somehow I think the answer is at best 'sort of, but not really'. The reason is simply because the Entreq Receivus is made of wood on the outside and sits on top of the component...so there is no direct chassis link in the way that a ground link is normally made (metal spade to a chassis screw that connects to the main elements within the unit so it can ground them).

What I DO think the Receivus does is act like some kind of antenna just hoovering up emi/rfi/etc and then drains it down the grounding wire into the grounding box. Note that placement on the unit will make a difference.

 

[Jazzhead]

Well Lloyd, when my tt thread on another forum got a little hijacked, I got a little uppity. This gesture was just out of politeness in that the Troy thread has morphed into more of an Entreq one, and we're the chief perpetrators LOL!!!
Ok, if Audiocrack, Jazzhead et al don't feel like their noses have been put out of joint by too much Entreq-centric comments, I'll contribute to BOTH threads.
You're in the enviable position on running both brands, and are in the best position to describe the similarities and differences.
I really do hope that all these effusively positive comments, for both Troy AND Entreq, are getting many more curious.

Spirit , please keep at it . Spreading the virtues of good grounding is foremost . Both Tripoint and Entreq are at the forefront of this wave , and my experience with the Troy has been a revelation to me . I hope the experiences mentioned here , make other like minded music lovers curious enough to try .

 

[Jazzhead]

You will not regret buying this very special Tripoint grounding cable, Jazzhead. Believe me: you have not heard the full potential of your Tripoint Troy se yet.

Audiocrack , thanks for the reaffirmation . I will surely investigate in the not too distant future , have my hands full up at present with some other in comings . The mind boggles if the supplied starter cables are just the tip of the iceberg and performance can be stretched even further with the Thor SE ground cable . I consider you very privileged , to have the good fortune of siting the Emperor in house soon , at X20 times the Troy Sig it's going to be NUCLEAR !!!!!!!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Audocrack, I know high price stuff regularly gets flamed here, often by me, ha ha! But despite me baulking at prices of stuff I can't really ever afford, I'm sufficiently broad minded to get past this, and salute SOTA performance. I'm sure this applies to most of the nay sayers. So I'd urge you to reveal your experiences w/Emperor.
My issue re Troy and price is not so much the absolute amount, but that it doesn't lend itself to incremental purchases - I mean at $70k for the Emperor Grounding Box, and $70k for the Emperor AC Power Conditioner, and upwards of $3k for each Thor grounding cable (maybe 6-10 in total), as an up front cost it's Hellishly prohibitive. Entreq doesn't sell for chump change either, but can be built up layer by layer, each subsequent one building upon the previous one, and hence is like building up our main systems. Troy/Emperor is a one-off purchase, and this precludes a good many potential purchasers.