Tripoint troy signature grounding device

[Geardaddy]

No, sorry for any confusion. i preferred Tripoint Troy Signature in my system to the Entreq Atlantis. But equally, i personally did not find Entreq to be entry level in comparison to Tripoint either. If one is 4-star, the other is 5-6 star. Neither was 2-3 star. Additionally, as with most things audio...there were characteristics of Entreq i like a lot...its midrange density and natural purity as well as the propulsiveness of its bass...hence, why i use the Entreq Atlantis signal grounding cables with my Tripoint Troy+Tripoint chassis grounding cables, along with the Receivus+Entreq grounding cables. Hope that's a bit more clear.

Hi Lloyd. No confusion here. Entreq is obviously a fine product and entry level simply in terms of potential $$ only. It allows people in the door. I have talked to Miguel about dumbing down his stuff for the commoners like me (for example using a cheaper box), but he refuses to compromise. That is his level of OCDness at work. I get that.

How does your system sound with the Entreq alone? Is it safe to assume that grounding technologies, much like power conditioning, are not necessarily additive but can often reveal the nature or personality of a given component? Entreq does not have midrange density. I have read similar things about the Troy which makes me think its simply revealing something about a "system" or component....

 

[Geardaddy]

Geardaddy, taking the emperor investment into account I sure hope it will be an interesting as well as very rewarding ride. I trust Miguels skills and ears and admire his devotion to music. I believe Miguel is the most passionate music lover and audiophile I have met in my audio journey so far.

I agree 100%. Miguel has a zeal about him that is rare in audio manufacturers. He attracts customers who share these attributes and are all crazy enough to be on that cutting edge/lunatic fringe of audio. Once you taste that level of sound, there is no going back much like being in heaven briefly and then having to come back to earth. You spend all your energies trying to get "there."

 

[LL21]

Hi Lloyd. No confusion here. Entreq is obviously a fine product and entry level simply in terms of potential $$ only. It allows people in the door. I have talked to Miguel about dumbing down his stuff for the commoners like me (for example using a cheaper box), but he refuses to compromise. That is his level of OCDness at work. I get that.

How does your system sound with the Entreq alone? Is it safe to assume that grounding technologies, much like power conditioning, are not necessarily additive but can often reveal the nature or personality of a given component? Entreq does not have midrange density. I have read similar things about the Troy which makes me think its simply revealing something about a "system" or component....

Hi Geardaddy,

In my system and a friend's the difference between Tripoint and Entreq was that the tripoint's key benefits were alacrity, clarity and speed. The entreq's were midrange tonal density and a more propulsive bass rhythm that seemed for example to pick up on contrapuntal beats in electro/house easily.

You are right that these observations are really only based on my own system and one other's where he actually has 2 independent Entreq Atlantis and Tripoint Troy setups in his one system...plus perhaps only a few snips here or there from the few who have tried both.

All i can say is Entreq only or Tripoint only in my system, these 'observations' are what jumped out at me. Because my system was the constant, adding Entreq brought midrange density...and adding Tripoint brought clarity...so i took those observations and linked them to the Entreq or Tripoint. Who knows...its a bit of alchemy i suppose. In any event, it works for me.

And in the end, i am much happier having used Entreq Receivus and Atlantis cables with my Tripoint Troy than without using the Entreq stuff. When i combined both as described herein, i did manage to get more midrange density and propulsive bass without seeming to sacrifice the clarity/detail of the Tripoint Troy only setup (most notably determined by the fact that i could still understand lyrics in choral music with reverb in the recording venue which made those words sometimes difficult to understand previously).

 

[Geardaddy]

Geardaddy, you say that the Weizhi PSA-6 is a Swiss affair. I had one and thought the US importer said it was from Hong Kong. At any rate I was shocked that being just a power strip, it improved the sound. At any rate the High Fidelity Waveguide power center was significantly better than the Weizhi.

I have a Tripoint Troy Signature and very much enjoyed reading accounts on the AE Show. I wish I had been there.

Hi Norman. I misspoke. A friend who still owns one (he bought it from Brian Aackerman) told me it was Swiss. It is/was a Taiwanese company. The unit is no longer made but was apparently a very good piece. The fit and finish was outstanding when I saw it at Axpona.

 

[LL21]

Hi Lloyd. ... Is it safe to assume that grounding technologies, much like power conditioning, are not necessarily additive but can often reveal the nature or personality of a given component? ...

Hi Geardaddy,

Having re-read your post more carefully, i pick out this question as an excellent one...i honestly cannot say. I suppose you could be right...after all, that is what we are told...it is subtracting distortion to reveal the true nature of your system...removing/draining emi/rfi/impedance mismatches, etc...

...if so, i suppose for some reason the Tripoint removed certain things, while the Entreq removed others...again, i am no techie and probably am acting more like alchemist and tuning by ear. But in this case, my ear finds certainly greater clarity/violin soaring/flute air in the case of Tripoint

...and with Entreq, intuitively what i feel to be a more appropriate bass delivery when listening to the number of additional rhythms buried deep in these highly layered electronica/house tracks where after really cleaning up the system, i realize they dont just have 3 beats...its more like 7 simultaneous beats going on...

 

[Geardaddy]

Hi Geardaddy,

In my system and a friend's the difference between Tripoint and Entreq was that the tripoint's key benefits were alacrity, clarity and speed. The entreq's were midrange tonal density and a more propulsive bass rhythm that seemed for example to pick up on contrapuntal beats in electro/house easily.

You are right that these observations are really only based on my own system and one other's where he actually has 2 independent Entreq Atlantis and Tripoint Troy setups in his one system...plus perhaps only a few snips here or there from the few who have tried both.

All i can say is Entreq only or Tripoint only in my system, these 'observations' are what jumped out at me. Because my system was the constant, adding Entreq brought midrange density...and adding Tripoint brought clarity...so i took those observations and linked them to the Entreq or Tripoint. Who knows...its a bit of alchemy i suppose. In any event, it works for me.

And in the end, i am much happier having used Entreq Receivus and Atlantis cables with my Tripoint Troy than without using the Entreq stuff. When i combined both as described herein, i did manage to get more midrange density and propulsive bass without seeming to sacrifice the clarity/detail of the Tripoint Troy only setup (most notably determined by the fact that i could still understand lyrics in choral music with reverb in the recording venue which made those words sometimes difficult to understand previously).

Are you in Hong Kong or the UK? Who is your friend and what does his system consist of? Wouldn't it be a pisser if your findings were simply related to grounding cables and not the actual box. You need to try some of Miguel's upper level cables and see what you get.

 

[Geardaddy]

Hi Geardaddy,

Having re-read your post more carefully, i pick out this question as an excellent one...i honestly cannot say. I suppose you could be right...after all, that is what we are told...it is subtracting distortion to reveal the true nature of your system...removing/draining emi/rfi/impedance mismatches, etc...

...if so, i suppose for some reason the Tripoint removed certain things, while the Entreq removed others...again, i am no techie and probably am acting more like alchemist and tuning by ear. But in this case, my ear finds certainly greater clarity/violin soaring/flute air in the case of Tripoint

...and with Entreq, intuitively what i feel to be a more appropriate bass delivery when listening to the number of additional rhythms buried deep in these highly layered electronica/house tracks where after really cleaning up the system, i realize they dont just have 3 beats...its more like 7 simultaneous beats going on...

From an intuitive standpoint, that is THE question. I am a technodummy and non-engineer. It comes from being intuitive and thinking out load.

 

[LL21]

Are you in Hong Kong or the UK? Who is your friend and what does his system consist of? Wouldn't it be a pisser if your findings were simply related to grounding cables and not the actual box. You need to try some of Miguel's upper level cables and see what you get.

My friend has not to discuss his system just yet, so i have to wait until he is prepared to tell people he has gone for both. As far as my findings...i could not replicate the midrange density with the Tripoint alone...i might have been able to do it with their upgraded grounding cable...but it costs a few thousand per cable, and i was not going there.

Meanwhile, the Entreq system alone could not replicate the speed of Tripoint no matter what i did. And when i did my little alchemy thing, that was the only way i could get both. There may well be other iterations that could work, but i was not able to decipher them...and stopped as soon as i had found one formula that worked for me.

 

[TBG]

LL21, I bought one of the Troy SE grounding cables. The improvement over the Tripoint silver cables is just shocking. I have two more on order.

At the AE show, these were used on all the components.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Just my 2 cents. In the high end we all have to make a decision where to stop/what we can afford. Going from non-grounded to grounded has been a total revelation (in my case Entreq rather than Troy). Starting w/the Silver Tellus and single Apollo lead was the major expense for me, approx 20% of the entry cost for standard Troy. This is not a criticism of Troy pricing, just that I could not afford the ticket for Troy at the time. I've progressed to spend a little more on 4 more Apollos, and am getting all the benefits Lloyd conveys, midrange clarity and superb bass propulsion. Toying w/putting my Burmester 948 conditioner back in has given me a little of what Lloyd described re Troy, in my case the Entreq/Burmester gives me a lot more speed, and so I'm sticking here. I know I am v. likely missing out on more revelations by not grounding more and more comprehensively, but the eureka moment I got when my last fortuitous combination clicked into place is enough for me. I tip my hat off to those who can afford/are prepared to go more and more into grounding esp Lloyd combining both approaches, and Audiocrack dropping 70 big ones on Troy Emperor.

 

[defride]

Having re-read your post more carefully, i pick out this question as an excellent one...i honestly cannot say. I suppose you could be right...after all, that is what we are told...it is subtracting distortion to reveal the true nature of your system...removing/draining emi/rfi/impedance mismatches, etc...

A friend who had the Troy in his system for a while made a great observation. He described the effect as allowing the music to relax and that's something I'd wholeheartedly concur with. The character of my system didn't seem to alter using it but that seeming lack of strain or relaxed nature suggested a drop in some form of perceived distortion, something you don't really notice until it's not there. What's more the change is entirely positive, no downside, just a significantly more natural presentation.

Hoping to get up and hear a couple of systems that use Entreq products soon, it'll be interesting to see if that relaxed nature is evident even though the systems aren't familiar.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Dan, as you know you have an open invite here to get an idea of Entreq. It'll happen when I get my act together. It seems like top class grounding allows a greater sense of ease to music making, via both a lower noise floor and general decluttering of the soundstage. Entreq and Troy seem to both achieve this, Troy majoring on speed, Entreq on tone (if I'm reading Lloyd correctly). You can't go wrong w/either, the likely decision to go for one or the other prob down to price/audition possibilities as much as anything else.
I still contend the biggest advantage of Entreq or Troy is the fact that if you already love your system and don't want to alter it's voicing, but just maxx out it's potential, you owe it to y'self to consider grounding ahead of component changes/cable swap outs etc. Component/cable etc changes will lead to a change in CHARACTER of your sound, grounding will lead to an ENHANCEMENT of it.

 

[TBG]

defride, the first review of the Tripoint Troy said, "The sound stage was encompassing and the noise levels had gone down substantially. But after a good deal of settle-in time with the Tripoint, it was on Sinatra at the Sands Reprise, a live recording with the big Count Basie orchestra with much audience noise, that I first realized the magnitude of the improvement it gave." I wrote that and still find it true, but more so, of the Troy Signature. Probably the key word is "encompassing." One can hear the sound surround you and get deeper.

I'm glad that I said that back five years ago as I heard it then without the many improvements in my sound since then, including the Troy Signature, the High Fidelity Cables and pcs and Waveguide ac filter, the Koda K 10 linestage, and better speakers, amps, turntable, arm, and cartridge.

 

[TBG]

spirit, Apart from very early on when my system was ARC Dual 75s and SP-3, Infinity ServoStatics, I haven't ever thought I was happy with my system. Nevertheless, after my experience with better grounding all components together and with the original Tripoint Troy, I have been convinced that such a unit is essential to realism, which is my quest.

 

[spiritofmusic]

TBG, +1. Grounding (in my case Entreq, in your case Troy) adds to intelligibility, see-thru'ness and what I call "lack of cognitive dissonance" i.e. the ability to just disappear into the music w/reduced artifice of music-making. Everything in my system has been enhanced by the incorporation of grounding, so much so that final changes I'm making to my system (Sablon cables, Elrog 845 tubes, Symposium Acoustics Isis/Rollerblocks isolation) are so easily judged as good or not-so-good in terms of system balance.
I really don't believe you can go wrong w/either Troy or Entreq.

 

[TBG]

Spirit, are you a social psychologist? Cognitive dissonance is an interesting concept in audio. In political science it is things like watch or reading media on the opposition politician that is favorable. People hate to have cognitive dissonance. I can understand what you mean. Ones brain seeks to reconcile what it is sensing and if clues are lacking to do so, it is unhappy. When I had Accapella Duos and Trios, because of the separation between the horns, a clarinet would seem to change location between high notes and midrange notes. My brain could not comprehend its location.

 

[LL21]

defride, the first review of the Tripoint Troy said, "The sound stage was encompassing and the noise levels had gone down substantially. But after a good deal of settle-in time with the Tripoint, it was on Sinatra at the Sands Reprise, a live recording with the big Count Basie orchestra with much audience noise, that I first realized the magnitude of the improvement it gave." I wrote that and still find it true, but more so, of the Troy Signature. Probably the key word is "encompassing." One can hear the sound surround you and get deeper.

I'm glad that I said that back five years ago as I heard it then without the many improvements in my sound since then, including the Troy Signature, the High Fidelity Cables and pcs and Waveguide ac filter, the Koda K 10 linestage, and better speakers, amps, turntable, arm, and cartridge.

I read that very carefully...and it was most helpful in starting to explore this. Thank you! And i am very happy these days...enjoy!

 

[LL21]

TBG, +1. Grounding (in my case Entreq, in your case Troy) adds to intelligibility, see-thru'ness and what I call "lack of cognitive dissonance" i.e. the ability to just disappear into the music w/reduced artifice of music-making. Everything in my system has been enhanced by the incorporation of grounding, so much so that final changes I'm making to my system (Sablon cables, Elrog 845 tubes, Symposium Acoustics Isis/Rollerblocks isolation) are so easily judged as good or not-so-good in terms of system balance.
I really don't believe you can go wrong w/either Troy or Entreq.

I get what you are saying...my system is surely not the 'best' i have ever heard...but thanks to Tripoint and Entreq (including the many Entreq wraps i now have in my system from the wall all the way thru the Wilson internal wires that connect the modules)...the level of distortion definitely 'feels' (to me) much lower than i have heard in all but a couple of systems. going across the house with the system cranked reasonably loud, and there is no strain at all...its just music playing...much like listening to our upstairs neighbor practicing her piano. I have never had that before no matter how hard i have tried...but these last 18 months of Tripoint and Entreq have really helped deliver that. Not quite an Arrakis (1 of the 2 systems i found better in my experience)...but far, far closer than i was 18 months ago on the same test tracks i used and took careful notes on way back then...

...someone here has this saying in their signature block...about distortion is the enemy or something like that...i know appreciate there are few truer words in audio than that...i just truly never appreciate how much lowering system-wide distortion really makes a difference with fundamentally sound audio equipment...

 

[spiritofmusic]

TBG, I think cognitive dissonance is a good phrase for lots of human phenomena. Incl high end audio, where possible influences not immediately consciously perceptible, one is made aware by their absence, and the absence of them leads to a relaxation not achievable easily otherwise.
When we replace components in our system, we're always looking out for deeper bass, more crystalline highs, better sound staging etc etc. Who hasn't bought a shiny new box w/that knock out factor? I have many times. Too many! Grounding, and to a great extent balanced power IMHO, isn't so much producing an additive impvt, more eliminating subtractive deficits. So if we've been lucky to get to a point w/buying our shiny boxes and the synergy of our systems are to our liking, many of the things that hold it back from realising it's true potential/a higher level of performance and especially listener involvement are addressed by grounding (and power in my rig). This means that subtracting deficits like noise, RF/EMI, other mains gremlins/loops etc etc enables us to hear further into the music. Not so much like an increase in transparency (although this is a resultant impvt) - no, more the ability to "get" the intentions of the musicians. And because the inherent voicing of the system isn't altered as even a component or cable swap would do, this ease of melting into the sound is the result of lack of cognitive dissonance.

 

[TBG]

Spirit, I don't think that is a correct use of the term.

I am much older than you and think I have lost interest in the "knock out" factor. I realize that many audiophile think that music reproduction will never equal real music, but these last several years, I have gained so much realism, that there really is no reason for me to go to shows, most friends' homes, or dealers. Most pieces sell at a price point that attract many buyers. I have been there and fully understand, but very few have ever heard what I hear.

I will probably venture to Miguel's home to hear the Tripoint Emperor soon. I have many anxieties about doing this as it may be so good that I have to buy it. I have a friend with many second generation master tapes. I refuse to go there and hear them, as years ago I dealt with tapes and know how good they sound. But they are a major pain. I have a chance to hear the speakers used in the AE Show in HK, but again don't think I better do so.

I note that I have none of the equipment you have although I once had Rollerblocks and had at least five different SET amps including the Western Electric 300b amps, SETs with 45 tubes, 2A3 single platers, Reimyo 300Bs, and 211s. That was during my horn era.