Do you guys know what the deal is as far as the Troy working with an isolation transformer? I have a Torus 100A panel feeding my room. Miguel hinted some time back that his unit doesn't play well with isolation transformers. I believe he said he doesn't like them as a matter of fact.
Tripoint troy signature grounding device
- Thread starter Audiocrack
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I reviewed the Torus Power RM 15 PLUS some time ago, but did not have the Troy Signature at the time. I must say that I long ago first ventured into dealing with ac filtering with isolation transformers. The Torus was the best I had ever heard, but I have given up on them. I presently use the High Fidelity Waveguide power center. It works quite well with the Signature, especially with the new Troy SEs. I'm not kidding when I say that the Troy SEs are the biggest improvement ever in my system. Of course that is in conjunction with the Troy Signature.
Were I you, I would put aside Miguel's opinions. See if you think he is right. I would save enough to get both the Troy Signature and two of the Thor SEs, however. I would welcome you to come listen to my system. I'm in Texas, near Houston.
Thanks! I was on the verge of purchasing the Troy a number of months ago when I started having electrical problems. The Torus panel fixed my problem after a long and painful period where it appeared I had ghosts in the room. I can't live without it. I think I'll give Miguel a call after the holidays and question him further on his position regarding isolation transformers and the Troy.
I see no connection between the Troy and any electrical conditioning device. No doubt Miguel would prefer his own conditioner. I have never heard it, but it is quite expensive. If you are interested in the High Fidelity Cables Waveguide power center read about it on StereoTimes.
It was his reply few months back. I am still deciding on Troy SE. I have Shunyata Triton and Typhoon. I am not sure whether Triton and Troy are doing the same. I am still hesitating.
Miguel's reply:
"Troy SE is a transformation and the only way of hearing music and not sounds. Not a fan of balance power or any transformer regulated AC delivery system. This a personal preference.
I do have customers that use balance powering in their systems with great success."
As Beat says, "The Shunyata Research Triton is the top model in the company’s third generation of Hydra power distributors. It sends electricity from a single wall outlet to eight sockets (ten in 240VAC units) using a buss system that Shunyata claims is capable of supporting the current demand of virtually any audio system. The Triton is an entirely passive device that also provides its client component with noise suppression and surge protection." The Typhon uses "Noise Isolation Chamber tubes" to condition the ac going into the Triton. The Troy Signature has no ac outlets. It is a common or star grounding system and only uses the connection to the wall plug for a ground to earth. Its function is to keep the noise in all components from influencing the signal in all others and to take this noise to earth ground.
There is the Tripoint Orion, which is the counterpart to the Triton or Triton/Typhon combo. These are to remove noise on the ac line.
I have never heard the Shunyata products nor the Tripoint Orion.
Frank, in correspondence w/Miguel, I too was told balanced power wasn't the way to go, Trpoint Orion AC conditioner the best. Since this costs c$30k and wasn't available in the UK, a no go for me.
I have progressed onto Entreq grounding, but only after I first invested in a £5k/$8k Westwick 8kVA balanced power transformer, in the UK the nearest equivalent to the US big beastie Equi=Tech 10VA units that e.g. Mike Lavigne swears by. I can say hand on heart the combination is v.special indeed, and I have no doubt Troy and balanced power should work a treat.
The Westwick has provided a rock-solid foundation for the music, reducing a moment to moment +/- 10V fluctuation in my mains to no more than +/- 1V!!!
This has been enhanced by Entreq grounding, and I can't hear any trade off using the two together.
The combination of buying the two has taken me to the sum I would have spent on Troy SE alone.
I have progressed onto Entreq grounding, but only after I first invested in a £5k/$8k Westwick 8kVA balanced power transformer, in the UK the nearest equivalent to the US big beastie Equi=Tech 10VA units that e.g. Mike Lavigne swears by. I can say hand on heart the combination is v.special indeed, and I have no doubt Troy and balanced power should work a treat.
The Westwick has provided a rock-solid foundation for the music, reducing a moment to moment +/- 10V fluctuation in my mains to no more than +/- 1V!!!
This has been enhanced by Entreq grounding, and I can't hear any trade off using the two together.
The combination of buying the two has taken me to the sum I would have spent on Troy SE alone.
Spiritmusic , do u mind posting photos of your westwick transformer ESP the back & how it's connected
Audioblazer, no can do re photos. There are 3 ways it can be configured I believe. 1. as standard w/captured power cord, to any length you wish, and 2 fixed outlets, 2. hard wired direct into mains w/help of electrician (like Mike Lavigne's Equi=Tech), enabling it to be sited away from the listening room, 3. my setup of 10m captured power cord w/10 fixed sockets, making it as flexible as a standalone multi way socket.
Frank, that's the 2kVA entry unit w/conditioner. Mine is about twice the size and weight, w/no conditioner. My 8kVA unit has a captured power cord that you can order to any reasonable length, meaning you can plug into a mains socket like any standalone component. Mine is 10m long and plugs into a dedicated socket from my radial main.
But it can be ordered to be wired direct into the domestic consumer unit or preferably separate audio-only consumer unit w/no power cord as such, just an electrician's install, and then run lines from it to separate components, enabling the unit to be sited away from the listening room adjacent to the house domestic consumer unit. For me this was just a step too complicated, so I run it in my listening room via a 10m power cord. It comes as standard w/2 outlets, but can be ordered w/none if you want to hard wire it and run dedicated lines, or in my case I ordered it w/10 sockets. I have situated the unit next to my equipment rack, and run 4 power components' power cords into it, SET amps and Zu sub amps, then also the Burmester 948 conditioner, from the latter I run the non-power components, tt psu, phono, cdp, dual line stage, AV rig.
But it can be ordered to be wired direct into the domestic consumer unit or preferably separate audio-only consumer unit w/no power cord as such, just an electrician's install, and then run lines from it to separate components, enabling the unit to be sited away from the listening room adjacent to the house domestic consumer unit. For me this was just a step too complicated, so I run it in my listening room via a 10m power cord. It comes as standard w/2 outlets, but can be ordered w/none if you want to hard wire it and run dedicated lines, or in my case I ordered it w/10 sockets. I have situated the unit next to my equipment rack, and run 4 power components' power cords into it, SET amps and Zu sub amps, then also the Burmester 948 conditioner, from the latter I run the non-power components, tt psu, phono, cdp, dual line stage, AV rig.
Mike, I've been told that there are no wires attached to the blades on either of the grounding to earth cables on the Troy Signature. The blade are there only to help secure the grounding plug to the wall outlet.
The Troy Signature in addition to being a star grounding system protects each component from the others.
I have come to believe with the new Thor SE grounds on the Signature, that this component is second to no other component in importance. I tried several other speaker cables I'm evaluating yesterday with all the Tripoints in and then removed all the ground on the back of the Troy. All three speaker wires were greatly harmed by the Tripoints out. This has serious implications as many reading a review will not have a Troy and Thor SEs.
I cannot say that I have the airline tickets to fly there, but Miquel may be coming here. He has the same BMC M2s as I do and has discovered that chassis grounding rather than careful grounding of boards, power supplies, etc. may be far short of the best. I think I could do all that he suggests, but he also wants to hear my system.
I still have my twin concerns about the size, wight, and cost of the Emperor. But I am also still quite overcomed by the benefits of the Thor SEs with the Troy Signature.
Yes, but hearing the tone of Miguel's voice when he talks about what he is hearing and knowing how right he has been in the past, nags at me.
Please tell us more of your experiences, and if you can articulate them, what differences you hear between the Signature and the Emperor.
Happy to share my experiences with you once the Emperor has settled in. The emperor is massive in every regard: size, weight, workmanship, hours that Miguel put into it, material costs, etc. It is a device that a person cannot handle on his own. Waiting for some (audio) friends to help me out in this regard. Will contact you offline once it is clear to me what the Emperor/Thor se is doing compared to the Troy/Thor se combo. I have learned (as you if I understand you correctly) to trust Miguel's judgements: he has very good ears and created something very special with the various Tripoint devices that I listened to sofar. All his audio predictions turned out to be right in my two audio systems. He considers the emperor and the Thor se grounding cables as his masterpieces. I think we agree on the Thor se grounding cables: they are imho phenomenal after you let them settle in for a couple of weeks. Will find out soon how impressive the Tripoint emperor sounds.
I agree about Miguel's hearing. He does predict things that I would have thought improbable, such as telling me that polishing the Stillpoints Ultra 5s would greatly improve them. And he articulates sonic benefits or problem in terms of frequency responses while I talk about the high hat not having sheen or the saxophone not being woody enough. But ultimately we agree.
I would add that his only one made thus far Orion replacement at the level of the Emperor is also one of his masterpieces. I have never heard any of his ac filtering devices as they have alway been so expensive and I disliked the outlets that he used in it. Again, I'm afraid of listening to it.
I thought that the Thor SEs initially sounded great only after about a day to decline and to come back even stronger after perhaps a week. I also think the Thor SEs are a real pain. I keep mine all from any contact with the floor or objects that could convey a static charge from the floor to the SEs.
I have an Ikeda 407 (Long) tone arm with a DIN connection that includes the only ground to my Lenco L78 modified by Jean Nantais. I can find no way to attach a Thor SE to it other than to cut the ground wire and attach it to a SE to run to the Signature. But maybe Miguel will have a solution.
Miguel's stuff is expensive and given the labor and materials involved well justified. But although I have often urged him to seek a more modest effort, he has alway refused. I certainly think he is right, given all that I have heard.
I must admit...i agree with your comments regarding Miguel's ear. He and I independently came to similar conclusions about the Ultra 5...something only a couple people i know have also said independently...so either we are both right or wrong in our respective systems. the minor amendments i make to how i use them were endorsed by Miguel after i had already decided this was the way i wanted to use Ultra 5s...and I was most surprised/gratified to hear from Miguel that he heard the same things i did and agreed with my final arrangements (ie, using HRS nimbus couplers with them) It was then that i realized if he 'hears the world' in a way similar to me...his products are likely to appeal...and they do.
Here an interesting link: a glowing review of the Troy signature se.
http://hifilivemagazine.com/tripoint-troy-signature/
http://hifilivemagazine.com/tripoint-troy-signature/
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