Tripoint troy signature grounding device

[spiritofmusic]

Mike, that sounds about right.
I would truly love to go down the Troy route, but other than steep cost of foundation/basic entry, something I've learnt about grounding which would naturally increase cost and make Troy untenable in any except the most well heeled homes.
1- the thickest maxxed out AWG ground cables needed.
That rules out thin coat hanger wire like Entreq Apollo and even Atlantis, and standard Troy silver cables.
Only Master Reference, Elite, and the uber pricey Dalby grnd cables are "man enough" for the task.
2- if your theory is right, and I believe 100% it is, then my info from guys in this forum who are developing their own uber grounding solutions, is that multiple grounding per component is needed.
In fact the more cables, the more the benefit.
I've heard reports of a highly respected super dac benefitting from 4 grnd cables.
So at eye watering prices for Troy Elite boxes, Master Ref cables, need for maybe 2-3 dozen grnd cbls to truly multiple ground multiple boxes, and hence likely need for 2-3 Elite boxes, a TRULY comprehensive grounding solution at this level is a little crazy.
But I think it has to be seriously considered.
PS sorry to spend your cash again

 

[Mike Lavigne]

This is sort of a DIY version on the grounding plane on my Synergistic Research cables. It really lowered the noise floor. Based on my SR experience, however, I would run the grounding cord to an outlet that no other gear is plugged into. It seems that creates a more robust ground.

I see many try to relate the Tripoint products (Troy Sig/ Elite) to conventional grounding approaches using solid copper in various ways. and no doubt there are common elements at work. but that misses so much of what is going on with the Tripoint approach. and there is no voodoo to it. common grounding just scratches the surface of what the Tripoints do.

anyway; your point was not that part, but running a cord to an unused outlet. the Troy Sig and Elite both do use a plug with 'dummy' hot and cold pins to hook into the power grid ground. you can put that plug anywhere, and I've tried it in unused outlets; however, it seems to bring the highest performance plugged into the same duplex outlet that the most significant piece of gear is plugged into.

I can try a grounding cord to another outlet......although might that create a loop? since i'd then be connected twice to the power grid ground. the flow of the Tripoint is designed in a certain way. i'll ask Miguel about it before a try it.

 

[Lee]

Interesting. Mike, I am simply following SR protocol by plugging into a separate port. It seems Trpy and SR differ on this point. I can only report excellent results with it plugged into a different outlet. And by the way, the SR ground plan is connected to a SR three-prong plug.

Next up, I am trying an "active" grounding block which is said to be a big improvement.

I see many try to relate the Tripoint products (Troy Sig/ Elite) to conventional grounding approaches using solid copper in various ways. and no doubt there are common elements at work. but that misses so much of what is going on with the Tripoint approach. and there is no voodoo to it. common grounding just scratches the surface of what the Tripoints do.

anyway; your point was not that part, but running a cord to an unused outlet. the Troy Sig and Elite both do use a plug with 'dummy' hot and cold pins to hook into the power grid ground. you can put that plug anywhere, and I've tried it in unused outlets; however, it seems to bring the highest performance plugged into the same duplex outlet that the most significant piece of gear is plugged into.

I can try a grounding cord to another outlet......although might that create a loop? since i'd then be connected twice to the power grid ground. the flow of the Tripoint is designed in a certain way. i'll ask Miguel about it before a try it.

 

[Lee]

By the way Mike, what does Troy ground?

In the Synergistic approach, there are grounding wires for all interconnects and speaker wires as well as RCA and XLR-ended connectors to connect to a spare port on the source and preamp devices.

Once everything is connected the noise floor drops noticeably. You can disconnect the ground by simply unplugging the plug that fits into the side of the grounding plane. When I first hooked everything up, the next evening we had a storm and I unplugged everything. After the storm I forgot to plug in the grounding plane and I noticed the sound was a bit dull. Then I saw the plug lying on the listening room floor and I jumped up to plug it back in. The sound restored and sounded wonderful again.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike
I love living vicariously through you. Keep it up! My wife does not mind when you spend money! Quick question. Does the Troy addition now render the Entreq stuff superfluous?
Marty

glad to be of assistance, Marty.

as far the Entreq, it's a mixed bag.

on my sources I've A/B'd with and without the Entreq Silver Tellus and the Atlantic and Apollo signal path grounding cables and it's not doing much in the context of the Troy Sig w/Thor. I need to go further with the Tripoint, settle on which Tripoint is on my sources, and then re-visit that issue. I may re-task the Silver Tellus to my tape decks, or sell it. but one step at a time and I have to let it play out.

with the Poseidon and Atlantic Minimus units that are on the negative outlets of the amplifier speaker terminals that is working marvelously, and I have zero plans to go the Tripoint Empress direction. the (middle box of the) Poseidon/Atlantic Minimus is also on the two bass tower amps and that has been a big deal in system performance, as I've previously described. I will be comparing that Entreq set-up to using the Troy Sig with a pair of 3m Signature Silver ground cables to those bass tower amps. just not got that far yet.

in any case the Poseidon is not going anywhere. really happy with what it's doing. if I do switch the bass tower amp grounding to the Troy Sig then I will have an extra box in the Poseidon and extra Atlantic Minimus to use somewhere. maybe add one more Atlantic Minimus and stack the 2 of them onto the ones already there on the negative speaker terminals.....adding to the performance.

 

[Jazzhead]

Mike
I love living vicariously through you. Keep it up! My wife does not mind when you spend money! Quick question. Does the Troy addition now render the Entreq stuff superfluous?
Marty

Not MIke , but the answer is no. EMI/RF is endless. Pull anything out and the noise resurfaces in varying degrees, . the Troy and the Entreq are a happy marriage, complementing each other. Atteast in my rig.

 

[Lee]

I checked out the Tripoint site but something concerns me. In the photos I saw only room for three connections. Is that all a Troy Sig can do? Most high end systems will need more inputs from cables and sources. How does Tripoint handle more grounding wires? Is the idea to stack spaded into the three copper binding posts?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Lee, my objection completely
I have a dozen components that need grounding, and some gear multiple times
This means 2 if not 3 Troy boxes
Too rich for my blood

 

[microstrip]

This is sort of a DIY version on the grounding plane on my Synergistic Research cables. It really lowered the noise floor. Based on my SR experience, however, I would run the grounding cord to an outlet that no other gear is plugged into. It seems that creates a more robust ground.

We can not know how the grounds of the outlets are connected, but it seems to me that in the worst case you can be creating a ground loop, destroying the concept of star ground.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I checked out the Tripoint site but something concerns me. In the photos I saw only room for three connections. Is that all a Troy Sig can do? Most high end systems will need more inputs from cables and sources. How does Tripoint handle more grounding wires? Is the idea to stack spaded into the three copper binding posts?

Lee, my objection completely
I have a dozen components that need grounding, and some gear multiple times
This means 2 if not 3 Troy boxes
Too rich for my blood

there is no limit to the number of grounding cables connected.

Lloyd (LL21) has 14 ground cables to his 3 posts on his Tripoint Troy Sig. those Cardas posts accept banana plugs and spades can be stacked.

the issue is proximity in terms of how many Tripoint boxes one needs. and keeping 'like uses' on the same post.....so things stay cohesive.

in my case my sources are 15+ feet from my mono blocks, unless I want cables running in the middle of the floor. so I need boxes in 2 places, but most people don't do that. and if I did my tape decks i'd need a 3rd box.

 

[Jazzhead]

there is no limit to the number of grounding cables connected.

.

That is not entirely true, in terms of pure performance gains . In simplistic terms , It is about grounding mass per component . The more you connect the further efficiency drops . While the net result may be beneficial as a whole , distributing the same leads amongst another box will yield more positive results . Is why the Emperor is further ahead of the Elite , it's the mass present within amongst other things and why the Olympus Tellus is another beast compared to the Silver Tellus .

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Not MIke , but the answer is no. EMI/RF is endless. Pull anything out and the noise resurfaces in varying degrees, . the Troy and the Entreq are a happy marriage, complementing each other. Atteast in my rig.

that is what I expect to happen. but it will take time to sort it all out to the best net whole.

the Elite has been in up and running for 15 hours so far.......

 

[Mike Lavigne]

That is not entirely true, in terms of pure performance gains . In simplistic terms , It is about grounding mass per component . The more you connect the further efficiency drops . While the net result may be beneficial as a whole , distributing the same leads amongst another box will yield more positive results . Is why the Emperor is further ahead of the Elite , it's the mass present within amongst other things and why the Olympus Tellus is another beast compared to the Silver Tellus .

right. thanks.

 

[Jazzhead]

that is what I expect to happen. but it will take time to sort it all out to the best net whole.

the Elite has been in up and running for 15 hours so far.......

Still to fully settle , it will keep gaining over the next two days . If you want in the future to move things further along , speak to Miguel about modifying the power cord on the Sig to the one that the Emperor /Elite sprouts . It pushes the Sig into the Elite neighborhood if not exact street .

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, that sounds about right.
I would truly love to go down the Troy route, but other than steep cost of foundation/basic entry, something I've learnt about grounding which would naturally increase cost and make Troy untenable in any except the most well heeled homes.
1- the thickest maxxed out AWG ground cables needed.
That rules out thin coat hanger wire like Entreq Apollo and even Atlantis, and standard Troy silver cables.
Only Master Reference, Elite, and the uber pricey Dalby grnd cables are "man enough" for the task.
2- if your theory is right, and I believe 100% it is, then my info from guys in this forum who are developing their own uber grounding solutions, is that multiple grounding per component is needed.
In fact the more cables, the more the benefit.
I've heard reports of a highly respected super dac benefitting from 4 grnd cables.
So at eye watering prices for Troy Elite boxes, Master Ref cables, need for maybe 2-3 dozen grnd cbls to truly multiple ground multiple boxes, and hence likely need for 2-3 Elite boxes, a TRULY comprehensive grounding solution at this level is a little crazy.
But I think it has to be seriously considered.
PS sorry to spend your cash again

I went almost three years not adding to my Troy Signature, not because I did not want to. I knew there were gains to be had, but one cannot do everything......we all must choose. I added some Entreq since it was a more modest investment.

a month ago I switched the Thor SE Master Ref grounding cord around to direct on the MSB, at the suggestion of jazdoc (when we were comparing preamp approaches), and got a big boost. which then caused me to order a second Thor. so far......innocent enough.

which got me in touch with Miguel just as 'Irma' was bearing down on him, which put an Elite in my gun sights. and I pulled the trigger (jazdoc now wants a commission from Miguel).

so a confluence of events got me going here.

and then just after I pulled that trigger......some guy waves this 'once in a lifetime' turntable under my nose. never saw that one coming either.

and now i'm fully and completely cooked for quite a while.

you are never finished till the dirt gets shoveled on the box.

but just because there are more steps you can go, does not mean you should.....or feel that something is missing if you don't. you have to cherish where you are......and if you cannot do that.....you need to work harder to do it.

 

[Jazzhead]

you are never finished till the dirt gets shoveled on the box.

Luv it !

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, w the infamous Entreq "kitty litter" comments, the "up to yr knees in ****" comments are apropo

 

[LL21]

That is not entirely true, in terms of pure performance gains . In simplistic terms , It is about grounding mass per component . The more you connect the further efficiency drops . While the net result may be beneficial as a whole , distributing the same leads amongst another box will yield more positive results . Is why the Emperor is further ahead of the Elite , it's the mass present within amongst other things and why the Olympus Tellus is another beast compared to the Silver Tellus .

Although I am the guy with 14 leads on 3 binding posts...i could believe Jazzhead's comments...certainly seems to work intuitively. Of course, that leads to costs as Mike points out. Which is not where I wish to go today, having just upgraded all cables to Opus and CJ GAT to Series 2. As Mike also rightfully points out, grateful to be where I am...and happy to aim for more, but later...

 

[Tango]

As Mike also rightfully points out, grateful to be where I am...and happy to aim for more, but later...

I am pursuing an alternate path with Schnerzenger devices which I found yielding bigger delta of improvement especially in sound aspects I am aiming to improve. I have never tried the Entreq but I dare say the combo Troy/Schnerzenger will take the system quite a few levels above Troy/Entreq. I am a Tripoint person, but when I demoed the Schnerzenger devices in my own system, it completed my system. This is why I dont opt for the Elite. The Elite sure is very tempting especially when my agent offer to buy back my Troy at purchased price.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I am pursuing an alternate path with Schnerzenger devices which I found yielding bigger delta of improvement especially in sound aspects I am aiming to improve. I have never tried the Entreq but I dare say the combo Troy/Schnerzenger will take the system quite a few levels above Troy/Entreq. I am a Tripoint person, but when I demoed the Schnerzenger devices in my own system, it completed my system. This is why I dont opt for the Elite. The Elite sure is very tempting especially when my agent offer to buy back my Troy at purchased price.

Dear Tang,

I will watch for your feedback on this direction, I did read about your initial encounter with the Schnerzenger; i'll go back and re-read that.

with mature systems like ours there is no one way forward. and we must avoid dogma type thinking and stay open to where our ears take us. the proof for each of us will be proven musically over time and where we end up. just like right now my time examining how Tripoint and Entreq will mesh. what is different? and what serves the music better? it's not a timed race or contest. and no finish line either.

with my new digital, and now my upcoming change in vinyl, and also the Elite, I have some time to just listen and see where i'm at with all this. so far the Elite has captured me.

best wishes my friend with the Schnerzenger.

best regards,

Mike