Are you showing off Leif?
I am ok with a little off 33.333. Don't hear any abnormality as long as IT JUST DOESN'T MOVE ANYWHERE.
Too lazy to adjust it.
turntables; high level anti-resonance----active (Herzan) platforms, Minus K, air bladder (Stacore) platforms, or others?
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
I am ok with a little off 33.333. Don't hear any abnormality as long as IT JUST DOESN'T MOVE ANYWHERE.
Too lazy to adjust it.
You would have to read the manual for the Eagle.Are you showing off Leif?
I am ok with a little off 33.333. Don't hear any abnormality as long as IT JUST DOESN'T MOVE ANYWHERE.
Too lazy to adjust it.
Hold the + button when you turn the power ON , you can now fine adjust the speed with the + and - buttons. It will store the new value when you turn power OFF again. I have modified mine, and can do a "running" connect/disconnect of the feedback system and reset it that way. But sound wise it does not matter much, just my OCD kicking in. no; the LPS i use is not a Table Stable or Herzan product. it's purpose-built by Taiko to work with the Herzan..
i only have personal experience with the Herzan 'TS' series active products myself; except for back in 2002, i heard a Halcyonics unit in my room which was what got me interested in active to begin with.
the target for active performance is the Taiko Tana 'system'; which starts out as a Table Stable/Herzan 'TS' unit; then gets an added 10mm top layer of panzerholtz to the top plate, a rubber membrane and a Taiko Daiza shelf on top. this 'system' results in full range attenuation; not just the bottom octave where active flourishes. to top it off it gets a panzerholtz enclosed exotic linear power supply. i have 5 of these 'systems' in my system. my whole signal path is covered with active.
TANA 150 & 140 ACTIVE ANTI-VIBRATION PLATFORMS – Taiko Audio
taikoaudio.com
many people use various active devices and multitudes of tweaks to them. lots of different power supply choices.
Dear Mike,
I am glad to inform you (and others) that our "Seismion Reactio" active vibration isolators are now on sale. After serving our industry clients for some months, now the first three samples have been purchased by well-known forum member TLi for audio applications. He was so kind to write a detailed review, you can find it under:
Seismion - new active isolation platform from Germany
At the end of last year, I was contacted by the founder of a new German manufacturer of isolators called Seismion. The founders are Dr Marcus Neubauer, he has a PhD in mechanical engineering, and Sebastian Mojrzisch, electrical engineer and former manager at Volkswagen (VW) in the...
www.whatsbestforum.com
Audiophile – Seismion
seismion.com
We have a selling price of 4.800 Euro (plus VAT within EU) plus shipping costs. Currently we offer our 500x400 mm size model in two versions (80 or 160 kg payload capacity). Other sizes will follow in future depending on the demand.
Our isolator can also be equipped with additional plate made of HPL or Panzerholz. This plate can also be a little larger in size than the isolator itself. Also connection two isolators with a larger top-plate (for example 800x1200 mm) is possible and tested by us.
According to the review, our "Reactio" shall be even better than Accurion or Herzan isolators. This might be due to our electronics design. We use input to output stage all-linear amplifiers, while at least Accurion has a switching output amplifier stage as far as we know (about Herzan we don't know). That is the reason why we might have a real advantage concerning linearity and noise. Typical power consumption is only 2-3 Watts.
Best greetings,
Marcus
Hello Marcus,
Welcome to WBF!
Do your platforms use piezo-electric sensors and use substantially the same type of mechanical operation as the Herzan platforms? In other words is the only difference electrical — your use of all linear amplifiers from input to output?
Thank you.
hello Marcus,Dear Mike,
I am glad to inform you (and others) that our "Seismion Reactio" active vibration isolators are now on sale. After serving our industry clients for some months, now the first three samples have been purchased by well-known forum member TLi for audio applications. He was so kind to write a detailed review, you can find it under:
Our website is:Seismion - new active isolation platform from Germany
At the end of last year, I was contacted by the founder of a new German manufacturer of isolators called Seismion. The founders are Dr Marcus Neubauer, he has a PhD in mechanical engineering, and Sebastian Mojrzisch, electrical engineer and former manager at Volkswagen (VW) in the...
Audiophile – Seismion
We have a selling price of 4.800 Euro (plus VAT within EU) plus shipping costs. Currently we offer our 500x400 mm size model in two versions (80 or 160 kg payload capacity). Other sizes will follow in future depending on the demand.
Our isolator can also be equipped with additional plate made of HPL or Panzerholz. This plate can also be a little larger in size than the isolator itself. Also connection two isolators with a larger top-plate (for example 800x1200 mm) is possible and tested by us.
According to the review, our "Reactio" shall be even better than Accurion or Herzan isolators. This might be due to our electronics design. We use input to output stage all-linear amplifiers, while at least Accurion has a switching output amplifier stage as far as we know (about Herzan we don't know). That is the reason why we might have a real advantage concerning linearity and noise. Typical power consumption is only 2-3 Watts.
Best greetings,
Marcus
welcome to What's Best Forum. i did read TLi's review and was impressed by what he wrote. i'm a big believer in active isolation wherever it can work.
my 5 Herzan TS units are all modified to the Taiko 'Tana' spec, which includes the 10mm wood topper, a rubber membrane, Daiza top, and a serious linear power supply with it's own panzerholtz chassis. so it's not the same as TLI's Herzan units. but my Tana 'system' units are much costlier than his, or especially, your products. so Seismon looks like a very attractive choice for where active isolation can be used. thank you for bringing these products to market.
at some point maybe i'll get a chance to directly compare my 'Tana System' units to one of your products.
does the Seismon do any leveling (more weight balancing)? how is it with an unbalanced load? does it degrade performance? like Ron, curious about your technology and whether you use the piezo sensors and actuators like the Herzan does.
best regards,
Mike
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Hi Mike,
The table you quoted is a bit outdated and some of the info there is incorrect.
Here is the correct info :
Audiophile – Seismion
seismion.com
#103 of
turntables; high level anti-resonance----active (Herzan) platforms, Minus K, air bladder (Stacore) platforms, or others?
just now Are you showing off Leif? :p I am ok with a little off 33.333. Don't hear any abnormality as long as IT JUST DOESN'T MOVE ANYWHERE. ;) Too lazy to adjust it.
www.whatsbestforum.com
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Perhaps I can reply some of the points that Mike raised.
Seismion active isolators do not self level. There are screw threaded feet where if needed can manually level the platform. I was told levelling or not do not affect the effectiveness of its isolation.
My Herzan TS-150 is the original model without modification, but I bypassed the internal power supply and use a Nordost QSource linear power supply to drive it. Mike, Seismion is clearly better than Herzan in my system, not just a little but a lot better. You really need to try it.
I ordered three more but the production rate of Seismion is not coping up with the demand. There is a long waiting list. My second order is still pending.
Seismion active isolators do not self level. There are screw threaded feet where if needed can manually level the platform. I was told levelling or not do not affect the effectiveness of its isolation.
My Herzan TS-150 is the original model without modification, but I bypassed the internal power supply and use a Nordost QSource linear power supply to drive it. Mike, Seismion is clearly better than Herzan in my system, not just a little but a lot better. You really need to try it.
I ordered three more but the production rate of Seismion is not coping up with the demand. There is a long waiting list. My second order is still pending.
are you talking about the actual unit weight of the Seismion units? i did not see that in the links, only in the table i copied.Hi Mike,
The table you quoted is outdated.
Here is the correct info :
Audiophile – Seismion
#103 ofturntables; high level anti-resonance----active (Herzan) platforms, Minus K, air bladder (Stacore) platforms, or others?
just now Are you showing off Leif? :p I am ok with a little off 33.333. Don't hear any abnormality as long as IT JUST DOESN'T MOVE ANYWHERE. ;) Too lazy to adjust it.
One more thing, the Seismion Reactio 40x50cm active isolator weighs 15.5kg each without power supply.
Herzan TS-150 and Accurion i4 have similar weight.
Herzan TS-150 and Accurion i4 have similar weight.
Tli,
thank you. you are very credible to me, and i have no doubt that what you say is correct. i recall the difference between my 'naked' Herzan and the 'Tana' system. it was substantial, and even in the development of the 'Tana' system each step was significant....as i worked with Emile from Taiko over a couple of years. improvements in the linear power supply made differences. so you don't need to convince me as to how far things can go. and it's not reasonable to think a better mousetrap won't be coming down the road. this is probably it.
but i'm about to retire, so changing this area of my tweaks for me is not something on my list of things to do. if a Seismion unit appeared on my doorstep i would certainly compare it and comment, and maybe find a way to acquire one. but it's nothing i'm pursuing. OTOH i celebrate this new product and hope it gets wide exposure for active isolation.....which i believe in.
I really appreciate all this input from you guys, let me try to shortly summarize a few answers to your questions. And many thanks for your words and wishes to our young company.
Honestly, we don't know the Herzan isolator (just have seen it on some exhibition), and our development is no copy of that system. Just our guess is, that Herzan uses piezoelectric sensors and piezoelectric actuators. They state the maximum correction amplitude is 20 µm, and this is a typical value for piezoelectric actuators.
Concerning our system, we have developed all core components by ourself, which is basically the piezoelectric sensors, the electronics, and actuators. As actuator, we use voice-coil, they have much larger stroke than 20µm.
Until now we sold our isolators to industrial clients, with no concern from them. I believe the audiohpile group is much more demanding concerning linearity and noise. It seems, we really have an edge there, this might be due to the electronics design using hand-selected components (considering the noise etc). If the different actuator design also helps, I don't know. Maybe also our sensors are more sensitive, which yields better SNR.
I also need to tell you that we never ever tested our isolators on any audio device, since our industrial clients are a totally different field. TLi made the first test for us, and it seems our design works well.
The "Reactio" has no auto levelling. This is surely one part where we save some costs. We have another model with levelling, but we stopped selling it, since all customers were satisfied without it. Reactio can cope with unbalanced mass (not extreme probably), and most importantly the performance should not degrade (at least we could not really measure a difference in our lab).
I would say the much lower price is mostly from our very low overhead costs, and probably the design which was from beginning planned for high production numbers. My partner worked in management from Volkswagen, so I guess they know how to do that
I think the outer finish should also satisfy most needs. As we are a new company, especially in industrial field it is better to enter with a price advantage, beside the performance.We produce everything here in Hannover, Germany. Also our suppliers are here. Final assembly and quality check has been done by us personally, now we hire another engineer with PhD that we know from the past.
It is really not my intention to make advertisement here. Actually our core business is industry, but of course we are glad to serve also your orders. As TLi pointed out, this demand from audio field came all the sudden to us, and we cannot serve the orders immediately. Since we need to order metal parts and electronics, there is a total delivery time of about 6 weeks at the moment, but we ramp up production right now and try to produce on stock asap. Anyone interested just contact me...
In the next days I need to check our website, probably there is some outdated information, really sorry for any confusion. The important data are:
500x400mm size, 16.5 kg own weight
80 or 160 kg payload capacity versions
Glad to answer any further questions,
Marcus
The extra order of three Seismion Reactio's has arrived. With more active isolation platforms available, they can now be placed under most of the equipment.
The equalizer of DS Audio Grand Master is tested. It was compared with Accurion i4. The Grand Master and i4 had been paired up for some time and I am fairly happy with the result. When Accurion was replaced by Seismion, the improvement was obvious. The background was more quiet. The separation of instrument was more clear. The whole sonic picture was cleaner and more natural.
DS Audio Grand Master is one of the best sounding cartridge and photostage combos currently available. The Seismion has taken it to new height. It is really amusing. I only worked on the main unit of the equalizer, there should be more potential left with the power supply unit. Sometimes the improvement on the power supply unit can be as large as, if not more, the main unit. This is an interesting journey which I intend to take it step by step and enjoy it along the way..
The equalizer of DS Audio Grand Master is tested. It was compared with Accurion i4. The Grand Master and i4 had been paired up for some time and I am fairly happy with the result. When Accurion was replaced by Seismion, the improvement was obvious. The background was more quiet. The separation of instrument was more clear. The whole sonic picture was cleaner and more natural.
DS Audio Grand Master is one of the best sounding cartridge and photostage combos currently available. The Seismion has taken it to new height. It is really amusing. I only worked on the main unit of the equalizer, there should be more potential left with the power supply unit. Sometimes the improvement on the power supply unit can be as large as, if not more, the main unit. This is an interesting journey which I intend to take it step by step and enjoy it along the way..
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