Tweaks, Cables, and Filtration: Essential for World-Class Stereo Performance?

[TonyW]

Then why did you buy expensive power cords which you justified as needing 9ft cords? You could have bought wire at The Home Depot for $1/ft and terminated them with $4 plugs. Hmm, so who is stuffing the Christmas stockings?

Your pseudoscience guy is selling used horse oats by the bucket and you and his followers drink it up thinking you are clever because it tastes just as good as steak and lobster.

Whose really being ripped off? The ones that refuse to experience something different just because it is expensive or the ones who discover new joys that yes, sometimes come at the expense disappointment. Learning is expensive- and I don’t just mean college tuition. The school of hard knocks makes me appreciate the great discoveries even more.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Each of us have a sound we like or a sound we have adjusted to. I love the detail and resolution and so my isolation of equipment, room treatments, cables and gear all work to maximize that. Others find that distracting and takes away from the music. Funny thing is I used to be that way too.

I love the introspection reflected by this section.

 

[exupgh12]

Yes, I have, and no, it’s not remotely the same thing that we do. There is no subtractive effect in what we do. The transparency and lack of noise—well, if you haven’t heard us at a trade show, I invite you to visit. I will show you tremendous respect and even allow you to pick the playlist. I’ll hand the iPad to you.

Ted Denney
Lead designer CEO Synergistic Research Inc.

Hi Ted,

Thank you for the invitation. Perhaps we’ll have the chance to meet in Munich if you’ll be there.

Best regards,
Guy

 

[Ted Denney III]

Hi Ted,

Thank you for the invitation. Perhaps we’ll have the chance to meet in Munich if you’ll be there.

Best regards,
Guy

I will be there, but we don’t set up an active display. We go to meet with our partners in Europe and Asia, nonstop, wall-to-wall meetings. However, I’ll buy you a beer

 

[TonyW]

I will be there, but we don’t set up an active display. We go to meet with our partners in Europe and Asia, nonstop, wall-to-wall meetings. However, I’ll buy you a beer

Will you be in Tampa again this year?

 

[Ted Denney III]

Will you be in Tampa again this year?

I’m racing motorcycles that week. Next show is in Dallas Texas, after that AXPONA. I have a total of eight tradeshow commitments in ‘25 as it is, and as the years of my life tick by, I intend to make time for the other things I love to do— in addition to my favorite sport, business. Never thought I’d get old. And yet, here we are.

 

[exupgh12]

I have heard a few systems with BACCH which is a better system than Trinnov. It does improve certain aspects. The sound is very balanced in frequency and impulse top to bottom. But I have not heard a system I would call world class that was digitally processed. I think a digitally processed system is a no brainer for someone who wants very good sound with minimal effort on room treatments and setup.

What do you consider to be “world-class”?
I’m curious—who was responsible for calibrating those systems?

I have three friends with world-class systems valued between $250k and $1 million. These systems are vastly different from one another but are all calibrated to the highest possible standards. This forms the basis of my experience with what can be achieved using advanced room correction (RC) technology.

 

[PYP]

All those cables you’ve bought to fine tune every piece of equipment! You’re good for the economy man. Keep these guys flush. I’ll bet their children send you thank you cards after every Christmas.

You hit the nail on the head! I received a card from Ted's dog with his paw print as his signature. Very cute. We keep it framed. I immediately bought more Synergistic stuff. Gotta keep that sweet dog fed well. YMMV.

 

[Rensselaer]

Then why did you buy expensive power cords which you justified as needing 9ft cords? You could have bought wire at The Home Depot for $1/ft and terminated them with $4 plugs. Hmm, so who is stuffing the Christmas stockings?

Your pseudoscience guy is selling used horse oats by the bucket and you and his followers drink it up thinking you are clever because it tastes just as good as steak and lobster.

Whose really being ripped off? The ones that refuse to experience something different just because it is expensive or the ones who discover new joys that yes, sometimes come at the expense disappointment. Learning is expensive- and I don’t just mean college tuition. The school of hard knocks makes me appreciate the great discoveries even more.

Oh, in the past I definitely drank the Kool Aid. I started out learning about this hobby by reading the usual journals, and bought most stuff after reading positive reviews. My unfulfilled need from reviews is that the reviewer didn’t suggest a likely synergistic system in which the reviewed item would work synergistically.

As time went on, my system ended up being made up of diverse items which had been reviewed positively in the journals, but didn’t work together. Not knowing enough, I suspected one of the reviews was incorrect, but which? This led to randomly changing cables, components, then buying higher-priced speakers each of which reviewed well in the usual journals (I was the embodiment of Sisyphus in Albert Camus’ book).

This was the problem. Every review piece of equipment had something good written about it (even if just “hits above its weight category” or “a good choice in its price range”), nothing bad. Likewise, the issue in which an article was reviewed also had several advertisements for that same item. I’m not saying, out loud anyway, that just because the magazine is making money from advertising that specific piece of equipment that the review is suspect, but … and then you have the OP of this thread, the dealer for all the items being discussed, answering each technical question put to him with a video that he made to sell the product…

After too many years of this, I have heard systems that were (and still are) great in the past (triodes and horns, ESLs, certain turntables and LPs), and the more modern systems (detail-oriented, digital) that some hanker after today and have chosen the mostly vintage route.

I no longer listen to merchants selling their wares but do respect the views of other silver-backs who have real knowledge through real experience, hence my subscribing to this user group.

Unfortunately, I allowed myself to be sucked into this thread. I tried to share lessons learned, even though I knew that I was going to be attacked for pointing out the Emperor wasn’t wearing any clothes. You can lead a horse to water but …

Not that every argument by those who drink the Kool aid is not useful. Your admitting that green marker around the edge of CDs does nothing confirmed my own experience, however your belief in the use of a demagnetiser on CDs making a huge difference to the sound quality I’ll take with a grain of salt.

When I put up a Shakti stone advertisement for all to consider, Ron challenged me with a “got you” question, had I done tests and what were the measurements of equipments before and after adding Shakti stones, or something to that effect. That was just to shut me up, he didn’t offer any knowledge based upon his experience. Just being a smart arse; I asked him how huge the improvement in sound and picture was after placing a Shakti stone atop his TV? No response.

Ok, I will abstain from further comments on this thread.

 

[TonyW]

Oh, in the past I definitely drank the Kool Aid. I started out learning about this hobby by reading the usual journals, and bought most stuff after reading positive reviews. My unfulfilled need from reviews is that the reviewer didn’t suggest a likely synergistic system in which the reviewed item would work synergistically.

As time went on, my system ended up being made up of diverse items which had been reviewed positively in the journals, but didn’t work together. Not knowing enough, I suspected one of the reviews was incorrect, but which? This led to randomly changing cables, components, then buying higher-priced speakers each of which reviewed well in the usual journals (I was the embodiment of Sisyphus in Albert Camus book).

This was the problem. Every review piece of equipment had something good written about it (even if just “hits above its weight category” or “a good choice in its price range”), nothing bad. Likewise, the issue in which an article was reviewed also had several advertisements for that same item. I’m not saying, out loud anyway, that just because the magazine is making money from advertising that the review is suspect, but … and then you have the OP of this thread, the dealer for all the items being discussed, answering each technical question put to him with a video that he made to sell the product…

After too many years of this, I have heard systems that were (and still are) great in the past (triodes and horns, ESLs, certain turntables and LPs), and the more modern systems (detail-oriented, digital) that some hanker after today and have chosen the mostly vintage route.

I no longer listen to merchants selling their wares but do respect the views of other silver-backs who have real knowledge through real experience, hence my subscribing to this user group.

Unfortunately, I allowed myself to be sucked into this thread. I tried to share lessons learned, even though I knew that I was going to be attacked for pointing out the Emperor wasn’t wearing any clothes. You can lead a horse to water but …

Not that every argument by those who drink the Kool aid is not useful. Your admitting that green marker around the edge of CDs does nothing confirmed my own experience, however your belief in the use of a demagnetiser on CDs making a huge difference to the sound quality I’ll take with a grain of salt.

When I put up a Shakti stone advertisement for all to consider, Ron challenged me with a “got you” question, had I done tests and what were the measurements of equipments before and after adding Shakti stones, or something to that effect. That was just to shut me up, he didn’t offer any knowledge based upon his experience. Just being a smart arse; I asked him how huge the improvement in sound and picture was after placing a Shakti stone atop his TV? No response.

Ok, I will abstain from further comments on this thread.

To me you sound jaded. And I get that. This hobby can be frustrating and even back in the day with Brick and Mortar stores it was hard enough having one salesman say that brand is junk, this is the good stuff and another salesman saying the opposite. Now we get to watch the same thing on YouTube.

It‘s a lot more work and trouble but being able to audition gear in my own home/room these days is way better than the guy at the store locking the door when he sees me carrying back the piece of gear he sold me the day before.

 

[Kingrex]

What do you consider to be “world-class”?
I’m curious—who was responsible for calibrating those systems?

I have three friends with world-class systems valued between $250k and $1 million. These systems are vastly different from one another but are all calibrated to the highest possible standards. This forms the basis of my experience with what can be achieved using advanced room correction (RC) technology.

Like I said. All the systems are in a custom room built specifically for audio. The owners are all very involved in tuning the system themselves and have years of time invested in tweaking the system. Oddly, all the systems are dynamic driver with a SS amp. I like tube at my house. But I can not deny what I hear in the field.

I would like to hear a world class horn system. I have heard very good horns. But I have always walked away knowing I had been listening to a horn. Having said that, one horn system in particular did something no dynamic driver has done. Brought me to tears. And it placed me on the stage in a way I have never heard before. It was surreal. Problem was, the electronics had massive noise issues. So much hum. And I don't know I could sit in that space every day and listen. It was a bit overwhelming. Amazing, but overwhelming.

 

[TonyW]

Like I said. All the systems are in a custom room built specifically for audio. The owners are all very involved in tuning the system themselves and have years of time invested in tweaking the system. Oddly, all the systems are dynamic driver with a SS amp. I like tube at my house. But I can not deny what I hear in the field.

I would like to hear a world class horn system. I have heard very good horns. But I have always walked away knowing I had been listening to a horn. Having said that, one horn system in particular did something no dynamic driver has done. Brought me to tears. And it placed me on the stage in a way I have never heard before. It was surreal. Problem was, the electronics had massive noise issues. So much hum. And I don't know I could sit in that space every day and listen. It was a bit overwhelming. Amazing, but overwhelming.

I have the best sounding system- in my neighborhood. Of course, none of my neighbors neither care nor understand hi-fi.

I have a buddy who installs high-end car stereo systems. His comment is my system sounds awesome, but needs more bass. If I had bass like he wants, the neighbors would turn on me when I start rattling their windows.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I find this quite curious when it comes to cables, that very few audio equipment manufacturers will endorse brand X IC, PC or SPC. Though they may partner with a cable manufacturer at a show. IE Border Patrol and Triode Labs (their rooms always sound wonderful IMHO) and this is no doubt an effort to save on the cost of the show, I do this in my company to share cost at trade shows. For me the real audition is in my modest listening space with my modest equipment. Love PAD cables and Analysis Plus. Purging SR and DH Labs from my systems now.

 

[Ted Denney III]

Like I said. All the systems are in a custom room built specifically for audio. The owners are all very involved in tuning the system themselves and have years of time invested in tweaking the system. Oddly, all the systems are dynamic driver with a SS amp. I like tube at my house. But I can not deny what I hear in the field.

I would like to hear a world class horn system. I have heard very good horns. But I have always walked away knowing I had been listening to a horn. Having said that, one horn system in particular did something no dynamic driver has done. Brought me to tears. And it placed me on the stage in a way I have never heard before. It was surreal. Problem was, the electronics had massive noise issues. So much hum. And I don't know I could sit in that space every day and listen. It was a bit overwhelming. Amazing, but overwhelming.

Do I have years invested in tweaking the system at a tradeshow? In a hotel room? Serious question.

 

[Ted Denney III]

My first car, a 1966 Plymouth Fury, had a bench seat with one adjustment- forward or back. I guess I adjusted to the seat because I was comfortable. Nowadays my car seats have 22 to 28 different adjustments and it takes me a year or more to find the setting that is most comfortable. It was like USA television back in the day. The system was called NTSC or jokingly referred to as, „Never The Same Color Twice“. Everyone has the ability to adjust color, tint, brightness and contrast to their hearts content. Most of our gear these days lack a loudness switch or tone controls but we still have knobs to turn such as room dampening, speaker placement, cables and cords to dial in our systems the way we want it to sound. Some like it hot, others not so much.

My favorite venue is an outdoor concert setting with unamplified instruments. My system is tailored towards that. But I also like amplified music only I do not recreate the ear splitting bass like I would hear in a Blues Bar. Not reproducing ear splitting bass when listening to Blues is a form of distortion but it is my preference. We all will tailor our sound to fit our preferences.

Each of us have a sound we like or a sound we have adjusted to. I love the detail and resolution and so my isolation of equipment, room treatments, cables and gear all work to maximize that. Others find that distracting and takes away from the music. Funny thing is I used to be that way too. But now I crave the intensity, the intimacy and the emotional involvement that I get with my system. It was only after many twists and turns- getting off track by focusing too much on one thing. Hearing live concerts and other systems helps to refresh our perspective on how the music should sound- or at least how we would like it to sound. Whether or not a cheap cable sounds better in our system vs an expensive cable is irrelevant. The goal is to get the sound we want. Sometimes the solution is inexpensive and sometimes we have to put our shoulders to the checkbook and pay up.

My audio system back in the day consisted of two 3-ways and a receiver. It was fun listening in my dorm room. It was simple and I adjusted to the system. Now I have infinite adjustability and after several years of tweaking and lots of monies I got it sounding just the way I like it. I‘m a DIY‘er and would be hard pressed to let someone else build and set up a stereo for me. But looking back at the time and effort it took me, perhaps an expert- if I could have found one to set up a system would have been money well spent. Perhaps if I could have found an expert to measure me and adjust my car seat for me…

When I was a little kid, we had a ‘66 Plymouth Fury III station wagon. It was white with blue metallic fleck vinyl interior. We were so proud of that car, and we took lots of family road trips in it. Later, when I turned 16, I would get that Hemi land barge sideways around turns. Good times!

 

[thedudeabides]

I will abstain from further comments on this thread.

Please don't. I really enjoy reading your posts. And the following is not meant to offend others. You are one of the few that provides a practical, common sense, down to earth view on this issue versus a more gear centric perspective.

 

[Kingrex]

I have no doubt that you can cause the sound of a system to change in a variety of ways via connecting wire. It appears that you created a cable with swappable dongles and can change how the system sounds. By having that cable throughout with the opportunity to pick a dongle for each instance you say the system is tuned to a particular desire. It is clever. Presumably the same 'tuning' could occur by using different cables for each connection.

While I hear a difference between the dongles, wrt the demo video, I have no clue what that processed music should sound like. I have no reference to it and don't know how it should sound. One might prefer dongle A before lunch and dongle B after dinner. I understand that some audiophiles may like the flexibility to change sonics at will without the need for their sound to relate to anything beyond what they find pleasurable at the moment.

You and I may be coming from different perspectives about the goal of audio or at least a different mind set about how to achieve it. For me that is in two ways: a) I understand high-end audio to be about the reproduction of a performance and I want my stereo to get me close to the object of that reproduction. and b) I rely on the components in my system to get me there without needing to alter the sound of those components with add-ons, or the need to insert another component (exotic cable, fuses, etc.) between my components.

I am not the customer you are looking for.

I feel like your being a little knee jerk, anti Ted reactive. I know people that have tuning devices on their cable. One is a world class system I listened too. The owner does not futz around with the tuning device. But he used it to get the sound exactly where he wanted it, then marked the cable and left it alone. Having a slight level of adjustability may be an asset.

When I was more involved with Audiophilejunkie, one of his major driving reasons to use DSP was the ability to set up a room exactly as you wanted. To dial in the sound. I completely understood where he was coming from. But, I talked to a few people that had used DSP, as well as listened to many people on his private chat group. All seemed to find they could not stop futzing with the sound. Constantly tweaking.

Do I have years invested in tweaking the system at a tradeshow? In a hotel room? Serious question.

I believe ai have read you saying you attend 20 plus shows a year. I would assume you have experience setting up a show.

I sm also assuming it is you in your in-house system tweaking the equipment. But I am not there personally to know if you have staff that assist with the process and lend ears. I would assume you have all your staff listen to your products and give feedback. I would hope you try and perform blind test to better understand component behavior to new technology

 

[thedudeabides]

To me you sound jaded. And I get that.

He is not jaded. He's just through with drinking the cool aid and focuses on the message and not the messenger. Maybe, eventually you will get "it". It's a good place to be.

 

[TonyW]

He is not jaded. He's just through with drinking the cool aid and focuses on the message and not the messenger. Maybe, eventually you will get "it". It's a good place to be.

Two ways to go in this hobby- 1) Chasing the wind. Ie going after every new component upgrade when it is released or getting the latest hot item being talked about on the web. 2) Build a system you like and enjoy the music.

I have changed my system out 6 times since college, 45 years. The change over always took me about 2 years or more to settle in on the right amp and cables or other components after changing speakers. This last changeover took me 3 years but with more intensive effort since I am now retired. I spent this past year making more isolation platforms of my own design to tune my system for more detail. Other than that I simply enjoy the music and everyday I get to listen is like Christmas morning as a kid to me.

The little tweaks and tuning are my ways of experimenting. Just like my car- I finally got the seat how I like it so I'm not selling or changing cars and my system sounds amazing- no intentions of changing anything there for a good while, if ever now.

 

[PYP]

If one follows one's ears, how can it be partaking in mass hysteria if the search leads to fancy cords and the like? You try them at home and keep them if you like them. You spend your own funds (hopefully, not ill-gotten gains!). Seems rather simple and foolproof (that is, no fools involved). If my wife doesn't mind, those on this thread who are concerned for me can rest now.

There seem to be a lot of tube lovers here who love to experiment with the different sounds of various tubes. From my own experience years ago, it is clear to me these can significantly change the flavor of one's setup. For some, that is the point and is fun. Although I no longer have tubes, it is fun to read about their quests.

I don't subscribe to the Audiophile Butterfly Effect Theory: That if you change your setup it somehow affects mine. And vice versa.