Tweaks, Cables, and Filtration: Essential for World-Class Stereo Performance?

[Kingrex]

Digesting the whole of what Ted D is saying, I would say the best systems are ones with fanatical attention to detail. That detail starts with power, the room, the speaker and placement. And I would agree with Ted in that It then moves to stands and yes, the introduction of filters and cords of all types: speaker, power, interconnect etc. And it never hurts to try other options such as fuses, cable lifters, shielding devices, grounding etc. All of it can work. And if you have a deficiency you don't realize and a tweak neutralizes the issue, its going to be sensed as a big change in your particular system. That I believe is why filters in particular are so hit and miss. Some people don't need them. The noise is not there. Others do. And there has to be synergy between the type of filter used and the equipment plugged into it.

 

[Lee]

One of the things about Synergistic Research that I initially has skepticism on was the Tranquility Base line. Ted sent me an XL to put under my ARC Ref 160 amplifier. To my shock, it created more clarity, better, more defined bass, and the soundstage seemed bigger. And it's easy to demonstrate the effect. You just turn it off and on. A very effective product.

In my experience, these newer noise reducing devices are additive. The bad news is that collectively they can cost a new component or even new speakers. The good news is that they work and you can add 1-2 items a year.

 

[italia]

The good news is that they work and you can add 1-2 items a year.

A year?

 

[Lee]

A year? View attachment 144235

Some are only a few hundred bucks. Depends on your budget.

 

[Rensselaer]

At 11.59 minutes I see a big difference in the images from his Anthem scope. Big. The author claims he sees no difference. Red flag for me. Plus he says he hears nothing between cords. Again, I have definitely heard differences. That does not mean the more expensive cord is better. It means there is a difference.

When I first stared in audio, I bought a pile of "Audiophile power cords". And my system had issues. A pro came to my house with a pile of inexpensive Chingcheng type cables. $29 each. One by one he changed out a cord. I heard every move and started to complain it was sounding different and I was not sure I liked it. He said it was going in the right direction, and I should hang on. He kept changing out my Audiophile cords. It's always the last cord, right. Anyhow, he changes out the last cord and it clicked. Both our jaws dropped and we stared at each other dumbfounded. It was so so so much better. As in "Better".
The whole point is, cords are very audible. No one is going to convince me they are all the same. They are not.

If you are addressing this to me, I never said they were all the same. I said those I tried, some of them quite expensive, didn’t sound better than the stock power cords my equipment came with. I kept the last set of three for two reasons, I needed nine foot lengths and they fit the bill, and because I requested custom nine foot lengths, they were not returnable.

The question of whether or not it is possible to make a world class system without tweaks and high cost cables … perhaps. Any of it might or might not cause your system to sound sound different, but better? You bought $29.oo chingcheng because they sounded the best and that is my point. Snake oil and sales patter is making me doubt everything I read about high end equipment.

Consider the following:

MIT ACC268 fully adjustable (for treble, bass) interconnects $80,000 pair two pairs =$160,000.00
Kimber Kable KS 6068 speaker cable $82,000 pair
Nordost Odin Supreme Reference Power Cable is more than £20,000 pair, three devices = £60,000.00
Nordost Odin Supreme din-RCAs phono cable $30,000

Just over $332,000.00 in wire to hook up your turntable to pre, pre to amp, and amp to speakers, to get the best, … if you believe the sales patter.

 

[italia]

Some are only a few hundred bucks. Depends on your budget.

Yeah I was just relaying my recent experience with the darting eyes, as I've gone down the path of adding quite a few SR tweaks over the past couple of months, each of which has been an audibly beneficial addition

 

[Kingrex]

If you are addressing this to me, I never said they were all the same.

You posted the link to the supposed Expert. The guy was full of it. In the video there is clearly a difference in what the scope was reading per the 2 different cables.

 

[thedudeabides]

I will show you tremendous respect and even allow you to pick the playlist.

Instead of being rude, arrogant and insulting? A very odd statement don't you think?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I would 100% agree with anyone saying most all cords add color.

The Natural Sound contingent argues that cables should not add anything. I agree with them.

 

[Ted Denney III]

Instead of being rude, arrogant and insulting? A very odd statement don't you think?

I wouldn’t know.

 

[PYP]

The Natural Sound contingent argues that cables should not add anything. I agree with them.

is that possible? I have found that all cables have a signature, as does every piece of equipment including an LPS.

For example, there might be a difference in how the soundstage is presented. One cable (say, a Mogami AES digital cable) may present a tidy/focused perspective while a different cable may present something more expansive (eg. Kubala-Sosna). That seems fine to me (kind of like comparing Leica to Hasselblad - both wonderful but different perspectives). What isn't desirable is a change in the natural timbre or tone of instruments or voices. I haven't heard any good cables that do that.

Also, any cables (or gear) that boost certain frequencies are not natural sounding. That seems a more common problem. Or maybe it is just what I'm sensitive to. Although boosting frequencies can be implemented very well and be barely noticeable at first, over time it becomes more obvious.

 

[Ted Denney III]

is that possible? I have found that all cables have a signature, as does every piece of equipment including an LPS.

For example, there might be a difference in how the soundstage is presented. One cable (say, a Mogami AES digital cable) may present a tidy/focused perspective while a different cable may present something more expansive (eg. Kubala-Sosna). That seems fine to me (kind of like comparing Leica to Hasselblad - both wonderful but different perspectives). What isn't desirable is a change in the natural timbre or tone of instruments or voices. I haven't heard any good cables that do that.

Also, any cables (or gear) that boost certain frequencies are not natural sounding. That seems a more common problem. Or maybe it is just what I'm sensitive to. Although boosting frequencies can be implemented very well and be barely noticeable at first, over time it becomes more obvious.

Nothing is 100% transparent.

 

[tima]

Cable neutrality, musicality, resolution, they are all system-dependent. It’s also why I build tuning options into SR cables—not that they get into the “signal path,” but rather interact with the electromagnetic field around the cable. These options affect subtle but powerful changes where system compatibility and voicing are concerned.

This five year old video demonstrates tuning options for Synergistic Research cables.

I have no doubt that you can cause the sound of a system to change in a variety of ways via connecting wire. It appears that you created a cable with swappable dongles and can change how the system sounds. By having that cable throughout with the opportunity to pick a dongle for each instance you say the system is tuned to a particular desire. It is clever. Presumably the same 'tuning' could occur by using different cables for each connection.

While I hear a difference between the dongles, wrt the demo video, I have no clue what that processed music should sound like. I have no reference to it and don't know how it should sound. One might prefer dongle A before lunch and dongle B after dinner. I understand that some audiophiles may like the flexibility to change sonics at will without the need for their sound to relate to anything beyond what they find pleasurable at the moment.

You and I may be coming from different perspectives about the goal of audio or at least a different mind set about how to achieve it. For me that is in two ways: a) I understand high-end audio to be about the reproduction of a performance and I want my stereo to get me close to the object of that reproduction. and b) I rely on the components in my system to get me there without needing to alter the sound of those components with add-ons, or the need to insert another component (exotic cable, fuses, etc.) between my components.

I am not the customer you are looking for.

 

[Rensselaer]

is that possible? I have found that all cables have a signature, as does every piece of equipment including an LPS.

For example, there might be a difference in how the soundstage is presented. One cable (say, a Mogami AES digital cable) may present a tidy/focused perspective while a different cable may present something more expansive (eg. Kubala-Sosna). That seems fine to me (kind of like comparing Leica to Hasselblad - both wonderful but different perspectives). What isn't desirable is a change in the natural timbre or tone of instruments or voices. I haven't heard any good cables that do that.

Also, any cables (or gear) that boost certain frequencies are not natural sounding. That seems a more common problem. Or maybe it is just what I'm sensitive to. Although boosting frequencies can be implemented very well and be barely noticeable at first, over time it becomes more obvious.

Too true. One contributor to this thread said he tried many audiophile power cords ( I assume includes all those 99.999% OFC copper/silver/gold/graphene in silk/teflon/air/water, funny battery-powered and other magic boxes attached, etc. ) before finding a plain PVC-coated-copper kettle cord for $26 from: Ching cheng in China which surpassed all the audiophile power cords in sound quality.

That should say all that needs to be said.

 

[TonyW]

My first car, a 1966 Plymouth Fury, had a bench seat with one adjustment- forward or back. I guess I adjusted to the seat because I was comfortable. Nowadays my car seats have 22 to 28 different adjustments and it takes me a year or more to find the setting that is most comfortable. It was like USA television back in the day. The system was called NTSC or jokingly referred to as, „Never The Same Color Twice“. Everyone has the ability to adjust color, tint, brightness and contrast to their hearts content. Most of our gear these days lack a loudness switch or tone controls but we still have knobs to turn such as room dampening, speaker placement, cables and cords to dial in our systems the way we want it to sound. Some like it hot, others not so much.

My favorite venue is an outdoor concert setting with unamplified instruments. My system is tailored towards that. But I also like amplified music only I do not recreate the ear splitting bass like I would hear in a Blues Bar. Not reproducing ear splitting bass when listening to Blues is a form of distortion but it is my preference. We all will tailor our sound to fit our preferences.

Each of us have a sound we like or a sound we have adjusted to. I love the detail and resolution and so my isolation of equipment, room treatments, cables and gear all work to maximize that. Others find that distracting and takes away from the music. Funny thing is I used to be that way too. But now I crave the intensity, the intimacy and the emotional involvement that I get with my system. It was only after many twists and turns- getting off track by focusing too much on one thing. Hearing live concerts and other systems helps to refresh our perspective on how the music should sound- or at least how we would like it to sound. Whether or not a cheap cable sounds better in our system vs an expensive cable is irrelevant. The goal is to get the sound we want. Sometimes the solution is inexpensive and sometimes we have to put our shoulders to the checkbook and pay up.

My audio system back in the day consisted of two 3-ways and a receiver. It was fun listening in my dorm room. It was simple and I adjusted to the system. Now I have infinite adjustability and after several years of tweaking and lots of monies I got it sounding just the way I like it. I‘m a DIY‘er and would be hard pressed to let someone else build and set up a stereo for me. But looking back at the time and effort it took me, perhaps an expert- if I could have found one to set up a system would have been money well spent. Perhaps if I could have found an expert to measure me and adjust my car seat for me…

 

[Ted Denney III]

I have no doubt that you can cause the sound of a system to change in a variety of ways via connecting wire. It appears that you created a cable with swappable dongles and can change how the system sounds. By having that cable throughout with the opportunity to pick a dongle for each instance you say the system is tuned to a particular desire. It is clever. Presumably the same 'tuning' could occur by using different cables for each connection.

While I hear a difference between the dongles, wrt the demo video, I have no clue what that processed music should sound like. I have no reference to it and don't know how it should sound. One might prefer dongle A before lunch and dongle B after dinner. I understand that some audiophiles may like the flexibility to change sonics at will without the need for their sound to relate to anything beyond what they find pleasurable at the moment.

You and I may be coming from different perspectives about the goal of audio or at least a different mind set about how to achieve it. For me that is in two ways: a) I understand high-end audio to be about the reproduction of a performance and I want my stereo to get me close to the object of that reproduction. and b) I rely on the components in my system to get me there without needing to alter the sound of those components with add-ons, or the need to insert another component (exotic cable, fuses, etc.) between my components.

I am not the customer you are looking for.

You make the determination the same way you determine whether or not you like any stereo, by listening. If you’re in the United States, if you attend high-end auto trade shows, I invite you to visit our room.

 

[Rensselaer]

My first car, a 1966 Plymouth Fury, had a bench seat with one adjustment- forward or back. I guess I adjusted to the seat because I was comfortable. Nowadays my car seats have 22 to 28 different adjustments and it takes me a year or more to find the setting that is most comfortable. It was like USA television back in the day. The system was called NTSC or jokingly referred to as, „Never The Same Color Twice“. Everyone has the ability to adjust color, tint, brightness and contrast to their hearts content. Most of our gear these days lack a loudness switch or tone controls but we still have knobs to turn such as room dampening, speaker placement, cables and cords to dial in our systems the way we want it to sound. Some like it hot, others not so much.

My favorite venue is an outdoor concert setting with unamplified instruments. My system is tailored towards that. But I also like amplified music only I do not recreate the ear splitting bass like I would hear in a Blues Bar. Not reproducing ear splitting bass when listening to Blues is a form of distortion but it is my preference. We all will tailor our sound to fit our preferences.

Each of us have a sound we like or a sound we have adjusted to. I love the detail and resolution and so my isolation of equipment, room treatments, cables and gear all work to maximize that. Others find that distracting and takes away from the music. Funny thing is I used to be that way too. But now I crave the intensity, the intimacy and the emotional involvement that I get with my system. It was only after many twists and turns- getting off track by focusing too much on one thing. Hearing live concerts and other systems helps to refresh our perspective on how the music should sound- or at least how we would like it to sound. Whether or not a cheap cable sounds better in our system vs an expensive cable is irrelevant. The goal is to get the sound we want. Sometimes the solution is inexpensive and sometimes we have to put our shoulders to the checkbook and pay up.

My audio system back in the day consisted of two 3-ways and a receiver. It was fun listening in my dorm room. It was simple and I adjusted to the system. Now I have infinite adjustability and after several years of tweaking and lots of monies I got it sounding just the way I like it. I‘m a DIY‘er and would be hard pressed to let someone else build and set up a stereo for me. But looking back at the time and effort it took me, perhaps an expert- if I could have found one to set up a system would have been money well spent. Perhaps if I could have found an expert to measure me and adjust my car seat for me…

All those cables you’ve bought to fine tune every piece of equipment! You’re good for the economy man. Keep these guys flush. I’ll bet their children send you thank you cards after every Christmas.

 

[TonyW]

All those cables you’ve bought to fine tune every piece of equipment! You’re good for the economy man. Keep these guys flush. I’ll bet their children send you thank you cards after every Christmas.

Makes me wonder why you would have anything more than a Realistic Stereo receiver and a pair of one way speakers with whizzer cones. Because if you have spent more money than that on audio you have bought into the kool aid as much as the next guy. Draw a line if you want but that line is your choice, not mine.

I see you subscribe to the pseudoscience guy- the snakeoil salesman who decries everything else as snakeoil. That is some bitter kool-aid there, my friend.

 

[Rensselaer]

Please tell us the exact system circumstances and comparison methodology in which you personally auditioned Shakti stones and concluded they do not make a difference in the sound of the system.

after you tell me how your television viewing improved drastically after placing a Shakti stone on it.

 

[Rensselaer]

Makes me wonder why you would have anything more than a Realistic Stereo receiver and a pair of one way speakers with whizzer cones. Because if you have spent more money than that on audio you have bought into the kool aid as much as the next guy. Draw a line if you want but that line is your choice, not mine.

I see you subscribe to the pseudoscience guy- the snakeoil salesman who decries everything else as snakeoil. That is some bitter kool-aid there, my friend.

I have good equipment that does what it says on the label. I don’t need a host of expensive “audiophile” cables, fuses and stones to fine tune it.

The only thing that I might want to try is some Ching Cheng power chords. So many users, not dealers, have claimed that they improved the sound over the more costly audiophile power cords. They are cheap enough that should they not be better than the custom built power cords I have, I won’t feel ripped off, however if better I can sell these audiophile cords a recoup some of the £thousands blown on equipment of false claims. Just need a satisfied customer or two to tell me which model number they used so I can compare and match like for like.