How do you know what a cable sounds like until you insert it into your system?
If you like the cable, what's wrong with a little adjustability?
Tweaks, Cables, and Filtration: Essential for World-Class Stereo Performance?
- Thread starter Ted Denney III
- Start date
If you like the cable, what's wrong with a little adjustability?
I'm not sure what I think of your philosophy on grounding. Grounding is not a filter. I honestly am not totally sure what ground boxes do. If they are connected together, they can be a parallel path to the earth ground in the power cable. So why don't they cause ground loops? If the piezo crystal is truly short electrons in its atomic structure and there is a way to encourage stray electrons riding on the case and in the signal of a component to the box, what is wrong with draining them off. That is just a fundamentally lower noise environment for equipment to be operating in. Always good in my book. But then again, I don't really know what a ground box does.
If you were talking about filters, I would understand better your position. With a filter, people have to be very aware what the filter is doing as you change any component. There are plenty of times I have altered someone's power supply and a filter that was being used is no longer beneficial.
They lower noise. Then we hear more bass, midrange, and highs. It’s a three-for. And it works!
whether the examples i gave are 'filters' or 'tweaks' depends on semantics. i did not call them either thing. they enhance the musical realism by way of being attached to gear. since these products are attached but not to a normal plug, i group it together in a grounding category and the manufacturers generally refer to these products that way.
i comment on them here since i do think they are generally under the heading of tweaks, subheading 'extreme grounding'.
a filter might be something broadcasting some sort of signal, or maybe negative ions, or something magnetic, or maybe a sound wave, or anything which would have an effect on the transmission of a signal or maybe just an effect on a listener's hearing, or even a placebo effect? who knows why or how?
a filter could be something in-line too. like a cable network box.
we only need category's to be able to talk about them. our meanings don't need to be that exact.
the only questions are.....do we like it?....can we afford it and justify it? what are we told it is doing? is this actually happening?
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when you do this kind of experiment, does it take time for the effect of grounding to become apparent? In other words, is there settling in time for grounding (powered or otherwise)?
the last time i disconnected the grounding was Nov 23' when i added the Pranawire Ground box to my Wadax Server. i removed the Elite grounding connection from the power supply of the Wadax dac and did an A/B with and without the Elite connected. i had previously just tried it quickly on the Wadax server to see if it was worth further investigations. it was. it was clearly better with both.
previous to that, it was when i did my Wadax<->MSB/Taiko Extreme compare in Jan 22'. in that case i disconnected the Tripoint Elite from the MSB and the darTZeel preamp and did that compare without them. i did leave all the grounding on the amps and bass towers. i wanted to be able to do a fairly speedy A/B and not have that as an issue. those particular grounding cables are the Thor Master Reference ground cables which are quite easy to hear much of what they do in a quick A/B. those cables are very stiff and from time to time work their way loose and when that happens i do notice it quickly.
it's my habit to go around and inspect the grounding cable connections every few weeks. but mostly they do stay connected. the Entreq connectors get loose over time so i make sure they are tight.
last year when i got the Massif Audio racks, my sources were completely disassembled for a few days and then put back together. the system was really horrid for the first half day then started to come back alive. i'm sure moving the Elite box (100 pounds +) was a big part of it.
so to answer your question; yes things do take time to become optimal. but it's not the same for every piece or place. but always the next day it's 'better'. why it's better is open to interpretation. i agree 'settling' is much of it.
This is the very first connection one should do when installing a Grounding device, The incoming Earth / Ground , just before the consumer unit , A very specific grounding device is used for this. Your entire ancillaries being audio or video will benefit greatly from this. Then you add Grounding devices to your ancillaries, deciding which is best, chassis or signal grounding.
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Maybe this is too simple for OCD audiophiles, and I'm not at all sure that I agree with it myself, but what do y'all think of this:
-- Cease trying to figure out how these things work. (This is very difficult for me personally because my amateur radio background gives me an (admittedly stale but not completely inconsequential) understanding of basic electronics, grounding theory, antenna theory, RF principles and EMI/RFI. So it's very difficult for me not to want to understand the theory behind these devices, and the actual method of operation of these devices (i.e., how do they actually work?))
-- Cease looking for specifications and objective measurements.
-- Cease looking for independent proof of efficacy.
-- Ignore all marketing copy, claims and advertising.
Instead:
1) Try it in your own system.
2) If you hear a difference, do you like the difference?
3) If you like the difference, is the difference worth the purchase price?
4) If the difference is worth the purchase price, then buy it. If the difference is not worth the purchase price then return it.
PS: Don't be embarrassed, or afraid to report, that you do not hear a difference! This is a hobby, not your career.
-- Cease trying to figure out how these things work. (This is very difficult for me personally because my amateur radio background gives me an (admittedly stale but not completely inconsequential) understanding of basic electronics, grounding theory, antenna theory, RF principles and EMI/RFI. So it's very difficult for me not to want to understand the theory behind these devices, and the actual method of operation of these devices (i.e., how do they actually work?))
-- Cease looking for specifications and objective measurements.
-- Cease looking for independent proof of efficacy.
-- Ignore all marketing copy, claims and advertising.
Instead:
1) Try it in your own system.
2) If you hear a difference, do you like the difference?
3) If you like the difference, is the difference worth the purchase price?
4) If the difference is worth the purchase price, then buy it. If the difference is not worth the purchase price then return it.
PS: Don't be embarrassed, or afraid to report, that you do not hear a difference! This is a hobby, not your career.
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Are you connecting to chassis or signal. Which has a bigger affect. How much of your grounding goes to a stand alone device or something with a drain to earth ground. Does one or the other have a larger affect?
Every saleman wants you go do as such!!!!!!!!!!!!
I still fall back to most people have no idea what they are hearing and if its good or not. The fabulous 15 that consistently post are probably more skilled than the average person perusing forums for information. You need to be taught to listen. The general consumer puts something in, hears a change and can mistake bad for good. They hear more bass, but miss its muddy, or hear more highs, but wonder why they get fatigued when they turn it up.
i do not currently have any signal grounding. all chassis connections in one way or another. some to a grounding post, some to a chassis screw by various means. in some cases it requires specialized pieces to do it right. Tara Labs has small little 'taps' which i've used to good purpose. i learned about these little doohickies when i owned the Tara Labs Grandmaster interconnects. and used them since. the best screw hole connector i have found. you do need the plug that fits into them which is then connected to a ground wire with a spade on the other end.
for a few years i did signal grounding connecting my Entreq Poseidon box (each section is isolated) to the negative speaker terminals of the dart mono blocks. but i found it a net negative so ended that and re-tasked the Poseidon to the bass towers to a very positive effect where they are connected to chassis screws on the active bass amps.
the Entreq, Pranawire and Taiko Setchi devices are stand alone....not attached to any 'earth' or A/C ground. the Tripoint Elite and Troy Signature are plugged into an outlet with a dummy plug only connected to the A/C ground. each Setchi has a 9v battery which i change every couple years.
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could you post a link to exactly what this picture shows? or give it a name or description. thanks.
not sure what you are referring to. maybe the signal grounding to the negative speaker terminals from the Entreq Poseidon net negative i mentioned?
in that case there was a slight positive in terms of dynamics and bass heft, but added noise.....a grayness and grain. like it lost some focus and clarity. it was very slight. but once i picked up on it......it was not an acceptable trade off. this is now 7-8 years ago so doing this from memory.
messing with signal path purity is going to be s sticky wicket. maybe system dependent.....the darts are clear open windows.
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I suggest you create separate threads on your interesting questions - debating all kind of tweaks in this general thread will only generate noise.
IMO pure mechanical tweaks , related to vibration, should not mixed with essentially electromagnetic tweaks - that surely can have mechanical aspects.
This is a connection to the main incoming Earth / Ground just before entering the consumer unit, on the other end is a specific grounding device. You will start to hear more opening up of the soundscape after some hours, the full performance is after a few days and more.
You hear a squeezing/ colouration , in particular in the mid range , lifeless and loose the soundscape / musical flow.
sorry, but i'm still not exactly clear what you are referring to.
my A/C power grid for my separate building/listening room 'audio system only' is an Equi=tech 10WQ wall panel system with a 10kva isolation transformer and it's own ground rod. it uses OFC copper for it's busses.
the barn also has it's own 'dirty power' panel with 100 amp service for lights and HVAC.
Connecting to the negative binding post on the loudspeaker side is the correct way to go and offers a very good uplift in performance. It is only recently after new development I recommend this way. Your loudspeaker cables do act as antenna/ aerials in picking up noise, this is why you connect at the loudspeaker end.
