Understanding Coupling/Decoupling - with particular reference to loudspeakers

[JackD201]

Thanks Bob, thanks Gary.

Frank I think we can agree that you are quite unique. Most of us are just after getting our systems to get out of the way enough so we can do nothing but enjoy the music. With day jobs and family affairs that take higher priority, listening to music is rest time not more work time. That's where I think finding balance comes in. I admire people that doggedly chase perfection whatever their methods. I just prefer to take the distraction removal route.

 

[fas42]

Thanks, Jack. As I've hinted a few times my head doesn't work as well as it used to, many activities which people would consider everyday, falling off a log stuff, become quite stressful to me fairly quickly. But this fooling around with audio I find keeps the brain cells stimulated, therapeutic you could even call it; it may even have some long term benefit for myself and others if I keep it up.

You can also partly blame the lousy sound systems at shows and events that I've had to put up with over the years: every time I've suffered I thought surely someone, somewhere is getting some clues on how to do this right, or putting together an expert tome as guidance for all. But it hasn't fallen from the sky yet, so I'll just plug on, doing my little bit in the corner trying to get a few more of the answers sorted out, and tossing the thoughts out ...

Frank

 

[NorthStar]

^ That's what true passion is all about.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Frank I think we can agree that you are quite unique.

Indeed.

Tim

 

[Gregadd]

the problem is that you can't fight an opinion even with solid evidence.

Thanks Gary

 

[LL21]

Here's the FIM ball/cup: http://www.firstimpressionmusic.com/product_p/model 305-4.htm

The Rollerblocks are the same sort of thing, so are Aurios, etc. They all operate under the same principles. There are also a lot of different cone-ball designs that try to achieve both, and then there are the encapsulated ball-bearing designs. Every design operates somewhere in the continuum between coupling and decoupling. If you look at one using the principles I outlined, you'll also see for yourself how they operate in the horizontal and vertical planes.

My objective for this thread was not to provide a comprehensive answer but just to open discussion.

Hi Gary,

i have a wooden on concrete floor...an an Auralex subwoofer isolation platform transformed my Velodyne DD18. I am now wondering about my X1/Grand Slamms...would you consider the Wave Kinetics N2S or Harmonix Footers? Both are spike cups...supposedly providing even big speakers (perhaps especially big speakers with big bass response) with cleaner upper and mid bass.

Thanks for any guidance!

 

[garylkoh]

Hi Gary,

i have a wooden on concrete floor...an an Auralex subwoofer isolation platform transformed my Velodyne DD18. I am now wondering about my X1/Grand Slamms...would you consider the Wave Kinetics N2S or Harmonix Footers? Both are spike cups...supposedly providing even big speakers (perhaps especially big speakers with big bass response) with cleaner upper and mid bass.

Thanks for any guidance!

I have not tried the Wave Kinetics footers, but from my experience at MikeL's place, they require to be removed and "massaged" regularly for them to work properly. Under your speakers, it might be too much work to remove them every 3 weeks or so and give them a knead.

The Harmonix footers you will have to try them. They have a "sound" - and for many, the sound is pleasant and desirable. How they will sound under any particular piece of gear can be quite unpredictable. When I tried them, I had the Reimyo player (and predictably sounded excellent) and the Esoteric (and under that it made the player sound far worse!).

 

[LL21]

I have not tried the Wave Kinetics footers, but from my experience at MikeL's place, they require to be removed and "massaged" regularly for them to work properly. Under your speakers, it might be too much work to remove them every 3 weeks or so and give them a knead.

The Harmonix footers you will have to try them. They have a "sound" - and for many, the sound is pleasant and desirable. How they will sound under any particular piece of gear can be quite unpredictable. When I tried them, I had the Reimyo player (and predictably sounded excellent) and the Esoteric (and under that it made the player sound far worse!).

Thanks Gary! I appreciate that...yes, you are right. 600lbs of speaker is just too much to move every 3 weeks!!! I suppose the requirement to knead them must relate to the fact that the absorption material gets compacted too quickly and thus loses its ability to absorb. I would have thought that would be the case with the A10-U8s with the ball bearings and the plastic covering...i thought the N2S was a series of harder surfaces.

As for Harmonix...i have now read the same last nite. i wonder if Magico QPods are meant for speakers? they have screw holes...would i replace the spikes under the X1s?...seems doubtful.

I'll ask the Wilson dealer here who used to distribute Harmonix and is well respected for their knowledge.

 

[ack]

The QPods are indeed for speakers. They seem to include the same blue EAR C-1002 Isodamp material I use under my VPI, phono and now my speakers (which are in turn sitting on a granite base, partially decoupled from the floor with felt padding - my suspended floor no longer sings along).

 

[LL21]

The QPods are indeed for speakers. They seem to include the same blue EAR C-1002 Isodamp material I use under my VPI, phono and now my speakers (which are in turn sitting on a granite base, partially decoupled from the floor with felt padding - my suspended floor no longer sings along).

Thanks! I will speak with the Wilson distributor here who also distributes Magico.

 

[GaryProtein]

Thank you, Gary, for such a comprehensive article on coupling and de-coupling.

 

[garylkoh]

Thanks! I will speak with the Wilson distributor here who also distributes Magico.

Did you manage to try the QPods under the Wilson? I'm sure that there are many Wilson owners who might be curious.

 

[garylkoh]

Thank you, Gary, for such a comprehensive article on coupling and de-coupling.

You're most welcome. You must be really dedicated to keep an IRS V running

 

[GaryProtein]

You're most welcome. You must be really dedicated to keep an IRS V running

The woofers have fairly new surrounds and all the mids and tweeters are perfect.

I stethoscoped them all individually, so I know!

 

[LL21]

Did you manage to try the QPods under the Wilson? I'm sure that there are many Wilson owners who might be curious.

Not yet...with Velodyne broken...have a little distraction that needs to get fixed first. stay tuned!

 

[garylkoh]

The woofers have fairly new surrounds and all the mids and tweeters are perfect.

I stethoscoped them all individually, so I know!

That's great. One of the few that lasted the past 25 years!! If you have not done so, next time you change the surrounds on the woofers, change the spiders as well. A good loudspeaker re-coner should be able to do that easily for you. As long as you don't blow the EMIMs and EMITs they should last you a lifetime!

 

[LL21]

Did you manage to try the QPods under the Wilson? I'm sure that there are many Wilson owners who might be curious.

Hi Gary...i am hoping to try the new Stillpoints Ultra 5s under my Wilson X1s shortly. they are getting some adaptors so i can replace the Wilson Spikes and screw the Ultra 5s directly into the speakers. I have known the dealer for many years, and he has been quite helpful, so i am going to trial these and see what happens. i am very curious to hear how they do...particularly after hearing the smaller Ultra SS under a 55lb Esoteric transport...and hearing it make a big difference. (BTW, they did very little if anything for my Oppo transport...so since i was not interested in the Esoteric transports, i also did not ask to audition the Ultra SS long-term...though i later read that they tend to work better under heavier components.)

Will post if/when the Ultra Vs are in!

 

[garylkoh]

Hi Gary...i am hoping to try the new Stillpoints Ultra 5s under my Wilson X1s shortly. they are getting some adaptors so i can replace the Wilson Spikes and screw the Ultra 5s directly into the speakers. I have known the dealer for many years, and he has been quite helpful, so i am going to trial these and see what happens. i am very curious to hear how they do...particularly after hearing the smaller Ultra SS under a 55lb Esoteric transport...and hearing it make a big difference. (BTW, they did very little if anything for my Oppo transport...so since i was not interested in the Esoteric transports, i also did not ask to audition the Ultra SS long-term...though i later read that they tend to work better under heavier components.)

Will post if/when the Ultra Vs are in!

Great! Let us know how they work. I'm sure there will be many Wilson owners on this board who will be interested.

I tried some under my speakers but they seemed to be incompatible with my suspension system. I preferred the sound with my suspension to removing the suspension and just using the Ultra's.

 

[LL21]

Great! Let us know how they work. I'm sure there will be many Wilson owners on this board who will be interested.

I tried some under my speakers but they seemed to be incompatible with my suspension system. I preferred the sound with my suspension to removing the suspension and just using the Ultra's.

I will certainly post when i've heard them. What is your suspension system? Very curious!

 

[Dentdog]

Hi Gary, and thanks for taking the time to make this available, interesting reading for sure.

I have a pair of Sistrum Apprentice stands slated to go under a pair of Zu Def 4s. There is an aluminum plate with sieves for the down firing woofer. Makes it pretty hard to gain stability for the upward Audio Points. A flat coupler under the speaker will have little stability fore and aft and although the speaker is darn heavy [175 lbs] it would probably have some stability problems. The floors are hardwood on floating 3/4" plywood on concrete.
I'm considering very accurately drilling out a slight inverted bowl into the aluminum billet and placing the upward Audio Point to the depth of the indention to resist and fore and aft movement, then spiking the down pointing spikes on the floor. I will let everyone know how this goes.