US Anti-Doping Agency charges Armstrong
- Thread starter steve williams
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Is that truly that important Steve? ...And I just dunno; how could I with all those hidden drugs 'circulating' around.
And besides, I'm just not an expert on that particular sport. I luv it though.
But please, stay with the one you think it is; it's your choice, and what you, yourself believe in life.
And who others choose as their cyclism sport ambassador shouldn't affect in any way your choice.
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And by the way, a musician, an artist who takes drugs (cocaine, LSD, heroin, etc.) is certainly different than a professional competitive athlete.
Ethics are what people choose to live by, and what others judge them by.
That, is the true law, in my own book anyway.
The best athetes of the world are the ones who are honest, giving, and free of drugs.
Musicians, singers, cineastes, movie directors, artists, poets are totally from another ball game.
And Steve, regarding hidden or manipulated (tampered) drug tests; I'm just like you, I read it here and there, and under investigations as we speak. Please, just google and it's part of the deal which Armstrong was involved with (paid money). It's there, on the Wide Web World.
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Some of you are perhaps a little emotional about this, but don't blame me for it.
...Just respect my own opinion, and live with it, without pressure.
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And remember, it's not as though he was using "illegal" or "recreational" drugs. He is accused of using non-recreational drugs with legitimate medical uses, and he would have been using them in ways they are intended to be used, in fact not a "crime" in any sense.
So maybe not "fair play", but we're not talkiing about drugs of abuse or criminal activity either, probably not even using veterinary or experimental drugs.
+1.
that nicely says about how i feel about it too. i spent many hours over the years following and watching and enjoying his efforts. much to admire. not for me to need to pick apart.....not that i think he is innocent. just not my fight.
and the whole agenda of the fed investigators is misgiuded to me. spending all that money chasing this stuff is simply not worth the result....i tune it out when i hear or see it. medical advances on many fronts will always allow some athletes to have advantages. how are we to be able to really know what is what? where to draw lines?
Here's a thought....put yourself in the position of the guy who happened to come in 5th ( or you name it) and you have trained hard all your life, are free of any type of performance drug, knows in your heart that you are the best rider in the field and yet cannot beat these guys ahead of you--no way, no how! Years later, you happen to find out that you were right all along, the other guys who beat you were doped up and wouldn't have held a candle against you IF the playing field had been level.
How do you think you would feel now? Perhaps that's why the fed investigator's are doing what they do, just a thought
How do you think you would feel now? Perhaps that's why the fed investigator's are doing what they do, just a thought
Here's another thought...
If Lance is NOT guilty of the doping accusations ( and let's say for one minute that he isn't) why would he decide to capitulate in the fight to clear his name? Surely, IF one is innocent of an accusation, one would want to fight to the very bitter end to clear your name....I know that's what I would do. Particularly with what's potentially at stake and IF you knew that the proof wasn't hard and fast against you. Yes, it would be a costly and difficult fight, BUT look at what's at stake. This is something that I don't get at all, unless Lance knows something that we don't.
If Lance is NOT guilty of the doping accusations ( and let's say for one minute that he isn't) why would he decide to capitulate in the fight to clear his name? Surely, IF one is innocent of an accusation, one would want to fight to the very bitter end to clear your name....I know that's what I would do. Particularly with what's potentially at stake and IF you knew that the proof wasn't hard and fast against you. Yes, it would be a costly and difficult fight, BUT look at what's at stake. This is something that I don't get at all, unless Lance knows something that we don't.
Here's a thought....put yourself in the position of the guy who happened to come in 5th ( or you name it) and you have trained hard all your life, are free of any type of performance drug, knows in your heart that you are the best rider in the field and yet cannot beat these guys ahead of you--no way, no how! Years later, you happen to find out that you were right all along, the other guys who beat you were doped up and wouldn't have held a candle against you IF the playing field had been level.
How do you think you would feel now? Perhaps that's why the fed investigator's are doing what they do, just a thought
Probably more like 25th or 50th, not 5th.
Did I miss something? Is there a federal investigation again? I'm pretty sure it was discontinued last February.
-----Davey, that is exactly how I think.
But many people need their dreams to be able to keep on living; you just can't wipe out their dreams just like that!
But the very funny thing is that those dreams are the ones that erased the true good dreams of the athletes that were enhancing drugs free!
Choose your dreams very carefully. Some are worth putting into reality, others are better to be forgotten.
But many people need their dreams to be able to keep on living; you just can't wipe out their dreams just like that!
But the very funny thing is that those dreams are the ones that erased the true good dreams of the athletes that were enhancing drugs free!
Choose your dreams very carefully. Some are worth putting into reality, others are better to be forgotten.
-----Rob, Davey was simply giving an example; who knows what the true reality is!
Hey man; not so easy to judge our brothers and sisters right?
And regarding the laws created by a group of men (and women); is it the ultimate judgement on Earth?
Laws are easily twisted as they were created. ...And often they account to nothing! ...And sometimes just to the opposite of what they were supposed to represent; or injustice!
There is another law that most men and women forgot; the law of the heart, the soul, the ethical law.
And that, has no value to no one but oneself. ..The one you live all your life with, the one you'll die with, and the one you'll leave to future generations. And if it ain't true, you'll leave a legacy of false illusions.
No one can protect or condemn you unjustly, no one!
The true power of a man/woman is deep inside his/her soul; and it is totally pure.
And there is no amount of money attached to it.
Bob
What I don't think you realize is that I agree with everything that you said. No arguments from me. But Bob he has never had a positive test and even though to me it is very suspicious, he still has never been convicted of anything except in the court of public opinion. What information do you have that we don't. So yes Bob I agree with your values but I never judge until all the facts are in, something which IMO you haven't
What I don't think you realize is that I agree with everything that you said. No arguments from me. But Bob he has never had a positive test and even though to me it is very suspicious, he still has never been convicted of anything except in the court of public opinion. What information do you have that we don't. So yes Bob I agree with your values but I never judge until all the facts are in, something which IMO you haven't
Steve, I agree with this mantra 100% as well. I ABSOLUTELY believe that the dictum: 'you are always presumed innocent until proven guilty' is the basis for modern civilized society. Just to be clear, I'm NOT accusing Lance of being a cheat or being guilty of any other accusation that happens to be flying around. Only he knows the truth and nothing but the truth. IF he cheated, that's something he has to live with for the rest of his life, IF not....IMHO he needs to fight a LOT harder to clear his name. One's actions sometimes speak louder than words. BTW, I don't think anyone here has said he's guilty of a crime. ( vis a vis breaking the law).
Just trying to teach Bob that another Law of the land is indeed a person is innocent until proven guilty otherwise as Christian says you are convicting him in a Kangaroo Court. You choose which of your laws are relevant Bob however you have forgotten the above stated one which is one is innocent until proven guilty. Otherwise I agree with everything that you said
-----Oh Steve, I do realize that all the members here are intelligent people, and very human too.
I got nothing that is going to shine more light on this entire affair (of many many years) than what is already and will be in the news media as time goes by.
We were all duped somehow and we just don't know (yet) how!!!
And then, why did he lost his seven Tour de France titles, and why many people and organizations are after him, legally, financially, and restitutionally?
At this point in time; the collaboration and corroboration of several individuals and organizations working in concert together seems to have the utmost importance, as compared to the drug tests (valid or invalid), or to what Lance has to say.
I'm in the same boat as anyone else here; and I make my own personal opinion based on the same (perhaps more infos in French, as I follow those developments just as you do yourself Steve) set of informations distributed all across the globe over our numerous sources of news accessibility.
Just wait some more Steve; you ain't seen nothing yet! ...Then you'd be able to assess the situation better and make a fair judgement; your own and only one that counts to you and you only.
And I'll do the same in time. Right now I am simply sharing my state of the present moment.
Do I need to prove to anyone here my emotional state, my freedom of opinion?
Do I ask others here anything? No! Do I ask them to prove their own facts? NO!
Steve, we are just talkin', no more no less; and if some of us want to be truly shaken emotionally about it; that is their own prerogative.
And why am I feeling that I'm the one under investigation here? Because I have a heart that is true, and I say what I truly feel, and you are listening and replying with your own true heart. :b
Bob
you need to take a relax pill.If you feel you're the one under investigation all I can say is ....
you need to take a relax pill.If you feel you're the one under investigation all I can say is ....
Bob
If you were ever called for Jury duty here I would bet unequivocally that with voir dire you would be excused because you have so many preconceived notions
If you were ever called for Jury duty here I would bet unequivocally that with voir dire you would be excused because you have so many preconceived notions
Bob, I have to say that the ONLY evidence that seems to have come to light against Lance, would appear to be circumstantial at best. You say we were all duped somehow and we just don't know (yet) how. Unfortunately, IMO, that's a statement that you cannot make, unless you have some hard factual evidence to show guilt against the accused. ( which IF you do, is certainly unknown to us and presumably the authorities as well). Suspicion is suspicion and nothing more than that, you cannot convict based on suspicion.. at least not in any civilized country or place that i am aware of. You say: just wait Steve, you ain't seen nothing yet...and you know this how?
On your last points, these we are NOT of the same mind. Hard facts speak volumes, innuendo OTOH is IMO beneath all of us.
On your last points, these we are NOT of the same mind. Hard facts speak volumes, innuendo OTOH is IMO beneath all of us.
I truly appreciate you trying to teach me some' Steve. :b ...Me I got nothing to teach others regarding this subject; I only divulge my thoughts that's all.
And I'm on the same page as everyone else here regarding ...until proven guilty.
But nothing is against the law on expressing an opinion into a much deeper equilibrium (equality of fairness).
What I mean is that men cannot create laws that are specifically adjusted to each individual; I do!
Bob
you need to take a relax pill.If you feel you're the one under investigation all I can say is ....
No no Doc, I'm all good here; it's excellent that we can talk openly on things that are important to all of us.
I'm feeling perfectly fine. :b ...My blood pressure (just took a test last week) is perfectly normal. My family doctor luvs me and I luv her too.
Bob, IMO sadly you're not of that opinion because you have stated so much innuendo here that states he is guilty. So which is it Bob
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