Valin's new MSB Reference dac & transport review, AS Product Year Award
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
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serious guys, let's move on. enough of this ticky tacky stuff. Alex likes MSB, he represents MSB - maybe he's a bit too passionate at times, but hey, we need more of that in this hobby.
if you want to talk about the review or MSB in the context of your own listening, then lets do that.
if you want to talk about the review or MSB in the context of your own listening, then lets do that.
Yes, we need more passion in this hobby, so Alex, you and everyone else should continue to be passionate about MSB and show it.
Unfortunately, some get attacked for their passion even when they qualify everything with IMO. I have been attacked for mentioning my Yggdrasil DAC too often, even though I have repeatedly said that I don't presume it's the best DAC in the world
(I do think, however, that it's much better than most people have heard.)But hey, I'll mention it from now on as many times I want, other opinions be damned.
Gentlemen,
This is subjective hobby. Saying "in my opinion" after every sentence is silly.
Alex puts his money where his mouth is and has been a fan of the brand for a long, long time.
He also runs it with YG, which is a perennial outstanding performer at every show and has helped MSB sell hundreds of $50K and $100K DACs. And that's what may peeked Valin's interest also.
Whereas one would think reviewers and "audio journalists" should have a higher standard and compare to other similar products before proclaiming something as "the best", not sure why people are giving Alex a hard time.
This is subjective hobby. Saying "in my opinion" after every sentence is silly.
Alex puts his money where his mouth is and has been a fan of the brand for a long, long time.
He also runs it with YG, which is a perennial outstanding performer at every show and has helped MSB sell hundreds of $50K and $100K DACs. And that's what may peeked Valin's interest also.
Whereas one would think reviewers and "audio journalists" should have a higher standard and compare to other similar products before proclaiming something as "the best", not sure why people are giving Alex a hard time.
Having heard the MSB Select 11 DAC, I can say that it the best digital component I have heard..and by a country mile! It's is also one of the most expensive I have heard...and by a country mile! All -------
IMHO
All -------IMHO
Caesar, this is the world wide web, what do you mean saying "in my opinion" after every sentence is silly? IMHO you have to almost say it after every word, never mind every sentence, again IMHO!
HahahahaCaesar, this is the world wide web, what do you mean saying "in my opinion" after every sentence is silly? IMHO you have to almost say it after every word, never mind every sentence, again IMHO!
Seems like TAS felt the product (and consequently, the review) was so groundbreaking that they actually published it online BEFORE the online PDF version is out!
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/msb-reference-dac-and-transport/
Enjoy
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/msb-reference-dac-and-transport/
Enjoy
Of course it’s nice that the digital vinyl war seems to be resolving internally for Valin with MSB, yet nothing new to those of us who have been finding refuge in Vince’s MSB YG room at shows for a long while…
And of course Valin is a great writer. Compared to other audio reviewers out there today, it’s like Gulliver above the Lilliputians and above the disgusting scum that many of these “audio-journalists” are. Yet Valin is in the business of selling magazines, attracting eye balls to his site, having manufacturers beg him to review their gear, and getting his favorite gear into his home so he can enjoy himself…
So by reviewing the lesser (yet still excellent) MSB model, the great writer that he is, he has "opened a gap". To him, the current model has deficiencies compared to vinyl (of course, to many of us who listen to music instead of format, these are normal differences that are inherent to different technologies). So when he gets the uber-priced MSB Select model with the hulky-muscular power supplies and speed-of-light-fast femto clocks, will he get that ultimate fulfillment from digital and will that gap be closed??? Will Valin’s and, in effect, all vinyl lovers’ problems be resolved? With a great review such as this one, the MSB team will be more than happy to send him that ultimate model. And the readers will just have to tune in and find out!
And of course Valin is a great writer. Compared to other audio reviewers out there today, it’s like Gulliver above the Lilliputians and above the disgusting scum that many of these “audio-journalists” are. Yet Valin is in the business of selling magazines, attracting eye balls to his site, having manufacturers beg him to review their gear, and getting his favorite gear into his home so he can enjoy himself…
So by reviewing the lesser (yet still excellent) MSB model, the great writer that he is, he has "opened a gap". To him, the current model has deficiencies compared to vinyl (of course, to many of us who listen to music instead of format, these are normal differences that are inherent to different technologies). So when he gets the uber-priced MSB Select model with the hulky-muscular power supplies and speed-of-light-fast femto clocks, will he get that ultimate fulfillment from digital and will that gap be closed??? Will Valin’s and, in effect, all vinyl lovers’ problems be resolved? With a great review such as this one, the MSB team will be more than happy to send him that ultimate model. And the readers will just have to tune in and find out!
Yet it’s peculiar to say the least, that Valin liked Wi-Fi streaming over the MSB transport. Wi-Fi streaming is really better than their transport??? Doesn’t say much about the $20K MSB transport!
Or maybe says a lot about Valin… I have been listening to great digital for a while, and have NEVER heard an ethernet-streamed file sound better than the CD playing in the transport. A reference level transport brings better timing and palpability to the music, while streaming just throws a much of sterile, analytical, overwhelming detail at the listener’s face… No surprise, though, as Valin is a self-admitted “transparency-to source”/ analytical listener. Or maybe he lacks passion and curiosity to get digital to truly sound real …
He also complains about Wi-Fi, since he was having Wi-Fi dropouts. So why not do something about it and run out to Home Depot or Staples, and pick up a 60 foot Ethernet cable? He could have just placed it on the floor in his home during the listening sessions (until his contractor can properly install it). Or maybe he could have one of his heebie-jeebies giving, make-your-skin crawl, $1 per femto meter cable salesmen – yet free for reviewers- send him an Ethernet cable. (No, not all of the uber-expensive cable guys make the audio fan’s skin crawl, but way too many do.) After all, these characters have been supplying him cables for free for years. What’s another $40K for a 60 foot/ 20 meter Ethernet cable to a guy who praises your strands of wires as “the best” in every piece he writes?
So his Tidal and MQA experience would surely have sounded better with hard-wired Ethernet than with Wi-Fi. Makes one wonder if he’s truly serious and passionate about great digital.
Or maybe says a lot about Valin… I have been listening to great digital for a while, and have NEVER heard an ethernet-streamed file sound better than the CD playing in the transport. A reference level transport brings better timing and palpability to the music, while streaming just throws a much of sterile, analytical, overwhelming detail at the listener’s face… No surprise, though, as Valin is a self-admitted “transparency-to source”/ analytical listener. Or maybe he lacks passion and curiosity to get digital to truly sound real …
He also complains about Wi-Fi, since he was having Wi-Fi dropouts. So why not do something about it and run out to Home Depot or Staples, and pick up a 60 foot Ethernet cable? He could have just placed it on the floor in his home during the listening sessions (until his contractor can properly install it). Or maybe he could have one of his heebie-jeebies giving, make-your-skin crawl, $1 per femto meter cable salesmen – yet free for reviewers- send him an Ethernet cable. (No, not all of the uber-expensive cable guys make the audio fan’s skin crawl, but way too many do.) After all, these characters have been supplying him cables for free for years. What’s another $40K for a 60 foot/ 20 meter Ethernet cable to a guy who praises your strands of wires as “the best” in every piece he writes?
So his Tidal and MQA experience would surely have sounded better with hard-wired Ethernet than with Wi-Fi. Makes one wonder if he’s truly serious and passionate about great digital.
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Hi Peter, these things seem to get lost in a mountain of information. So if you happen to have a link, please share. Thanks
Thanks Alex for posting the link- much better commenting the full article.
Caesar, this time I have to agree with you - the JV review is not serious or interesting. A long narrative, filled with ambiguity , even contradictions and very little musical support . The Wi-Fi comments are unacceptable in a 2018 review!
Let us hope that the Select II will be given for review to someone who does not need to start a review with a ridiculous condescending sentence and has experience with the best of digital.
I can imagine that the sonorous WBF anti-MQA community will not be happy with his enthusiastic endorsement of MQA! I still have not installed the MQA firmware upgrade in my DAC, I feel now more motivated to do it.
BTW, people knowing me know that if by any reason I find that a different digital system is a better match for my system and preferences I will probably change without regrets - not because I will find the newcomer the "best" or whichever - but simply because overall it is my system and and my preferences.
Yes, this review is not interesting. When he talks about the experience of having the musicians palpably present in your room, as being uncannily "there", this seems nothing special for great digital -- my $ 2,300 Schiit Yggdrasil DAC can do that too. Reading Valin's descriptions almost made me yawn, frankly. And depth of imaging we have already covered, no problem for the Yggdrasil DAC, as not just myself, but others too who have heard it in my room, attested.
So I don't see the big deal about the MSB Reference DAC -- from this review, that is. I am sure in direct comparison to my DAC there would be worthwhile differences, and they might actually be a big deal. But this review is just a lot of words about nothing, especially since Valin does not directly compare with other DACs. A pretty lousy review, actually.
So I don't see the big deal about the MSB Reference DAC -- from this review, that is. I am sure in direct comparison to my DAC there would be worthwhile differences, and they might actually be a big deal. But this review is just a lot of words about nothing, especially since Valin does not directly compare with other DACs. A pretty lousy review, actually.
I'm more a fan of analog over digital, but I really hate reviews like this.
Where vinylphiles say they've suddenly discovered digital that doesn't send them out of the room screaming, still can't match vinyl in the most important ways, but finally palatable.
This doesn't do MSB any favours, basically saying it's good compared to crap, but still no patch on analog.
There's no lack of depth from plenty of good digital, Valin needs to get out a bit more. This review is so circa 2000.
Where vinylphiles say they've suddenly discovered digital that doesn't send them out of the room screaming, still can't match vinyl in the most important ways, but finally palatable.
This doesn't do MSB any favours, basically saying it's good compared to crap, but still no patch on analog.
There's no lack of depth from plenty of good digital, Valin needs to get out a bit more. This review is so circa 2000.
You should also look elsewhere, and most of the time a few years ago. Several people who have great audio systems shared the opinion that digital was different from analog, but there were no winners. For example, see https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/can-digital-beat-our-analog-installations. Here we can have direct opinions from some well known people. And this was with the previous generation of digital. Let us hope that current digital is not inferior ...
Surely analog is many times a clear winner if you compare symphonic work of great orchestras - today's musicians work codes and recording economics are not compatible with some of the techniques that were successfully used in the past. But many current top digital recordings would not have been possible with analog multi-track recorders.
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I very much agree with Microstrips earlier comment and also hope that when MSB do finally give out a Select 2 for review they don’t give it to JV who has clearly displayed a deep lack of understanding and experience with digital setups.
I also wonder at the implications of over many years just constantly being given the best of the best of everything how connected JV is with setup and knowing how to be working gear to get the absolute best out of it. If shoving wifi into the middle of your audio path is what he thinks is good (let alone employing MQA) and good enough to make findings on absolutes like the state of digital v analogue in a review with this just shows what a lack of experience ultimately invalidates in reviewing. He doesn’t even know enough on this to realise that his readership is already much more aware on these things than he is.
Certainly I’d be hoping MSB do give the Select 2 to someone with more experience (not hard) and credibility in this area. Really a fairly pointless and disappointing review of an important product.
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