Now that is interesting.
You think the Sonja 2.2 is so much better than the Hailey or do you think the M3 is not so much (or at all) better than the S5 Mk2?
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Now that is interesting.
You think the Sonja 2.2 is so much better than the Hailey or do you think the M3 is not so much (or at all) better than the S5 Mk2?
I personally would prefer a true D’Appolito M-T-M arrangement, with the YG M-T-M module centered in the middle of the speaker, with a woofer module on top and a woofer module on the bottom (like EA MM7, Rockport Arrakis, VSA Ultra 11). I wonder why Yoav doesn’t do it this way, especially for the tallest single tower configurations. (I have the same curiosity/question for Wilson Audio with the Master Chronosonic.)
I know nothing about loudspeaker design, but, especially for a brand’s top-of-the-line speaker, I think a true D’Appolito design is the right way to go, because, for dynamic driver speakers, I like a true point source, and for the cost of a very expensive speaker (which all of these are!) I like not worrying whether I am hearing the low frequencies come out of the bottom of the speaker cabinet.
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For me, i have liked what I have read about D'Appolito designs. I genuinely like the Arrakis. However, I also cannot say how much of that is D'Appolito vs Andy Payor given that I also like his Altair design. And of course, I also like the XLF and can only imagine how good the WAMM is.
...Bodhi?I auditioned the comparably priced Hailey 1.2 when I was considering the S5 Mk2's. What I liked about the Hailey - their speed, transparency, coherency, stage width & punchy bass. I also admired their Lexus-like build quality.
What I didn't like - whilst the bass went deep, I preferred the S5 Mk2's bass which moved more air, had more texture & was better controlled. I also felt the Hailey (whilst much improved from models like the Kipod) didn't sound as natural/organic as the Magico's. I suspect the ForgeCore tweeter was likely the main culprit.
In the end, I clearly preferred the S5 Mk2's which I thought were the more 'complete' speaker and a better value at their price point, so they came home with me. That said, If I were choosing between the Magico M3 and YG Sonja 2.2, given a suitable size room, I would go for the Sonja 2.2's every time.
Very interesting. I also would prefer the S5 Mk. II over the Hailey 2. And I think I agree with you about the reason why: the S5 Mk. II’s bigger drivers and thus, presumably, greater overall dynamic capability.
I liked reading this thoughtful comment, close-call, comparison. The Magico and the YG designs are similar in several ways.
It makes no sense to me when someone claims to “love” one model of a brand of “speaker” and buys that speaker, and yet claims to “hate” an objectively technically similar model of another brand of speaker when, in reality, most people would find them similar. (I think this happens a lot, unfortunately, when people artificially “sharpen” their views for cognitive dissonance reasons after they make an actual purchase decision.)
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It's horses for courses - the Sonja 2.2 and Magico S5 Mk2 are best suited to medium or medium-large rooms, the M3 to a small-medium size room. So it depends on your room size and budget.
The point I was making is, If I were choosing between the Sonja 2.2 and M3, given a suitable size room I would go for the Sonja 2.2. The M3's 3 x 7's can only do much. FWIW In a medium size room I don't think any dynamic speaker can touch the S5 Mk2 at or near $38k.
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You know I love the Altair II and the Lyra too!
PS: I noticed yesterday that the Arrakis is no longer listed on Andy’s website. I hope this means that a replacement for the Arrakis, made of two Lyras instead of two Altair IIs, is in the works!
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You're wrong about the YGs. It depends on the room. You can put Sonja 2.2 in a closet, and it'll sound awesome. Or you can put Hailey in a ballroom, like we did, and it'll still sound awesome. It depends.
For normal living room situations, a Hailey will be great, whilst Sonja 2.2 will be perfect.
You can't extrapolate Ron and Keith's impressions on them in our (treated) listening room to how they'll sound in a normal living room. Having installed these speakers in many a challenging environment, I know exactly whether they'll work or not. That'll also depend, of course, on the listening habits of the person buying them.
On the S5 mk2 price bracket, there's the Sasha DAW, an amazing speaker. Folks that have not heard a Wilson in the last 4-5 years should pay attention to this particular model.
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I can't say I disagree because I've only heard the Sonja 2.2 at a show and I haven't heard the S5's at all. I did listen to the M3's last week at Magico and in that very large room they had no trouble filling it with deep accurate bass. I told Peter Mackay later that it was the best recorded sound I've heard. Would the S5's have done better? Bass probably but overall? Maybe not.
Ok then, put a pair of Sonja 2.2's in a closet, shoot a HD video of them playing and let the WBF community decide?! The reason there is a Carmel 2 isn't purely to accommodate lesser budgets - It is because many rooms are way too small for a speaker like the Sonja 2.2. That's just common sense. Though bare in mind, I was just commenting on what I see as the 'optimal' room size for those speakers. Sure you can stuff a Sonja 2.2 into a room better suited to a Carmel 2 with sufficient room treatments, but i'd bet the Carmel 2 would need little to no room treatments to give their best & would not dominate the room. Likewise I could stuff a Magico S7 into a room better suited to the A3's with sufficient room treatments, but it would be ridiculous overkill. That is why there are various models to accommodate not only different budgets, but different room sizes. Whether the speakers "work" or are "optimal" in a particular space are two different things.
Re: the Wilson Sasha Daw. That is a good speaker, but i'll leave it at that as i'm sure Ron doesn't need another Wilson vs Magico pissfest..
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Bodhi,
I don't do videos, sorry. I encourage people to look for their dealers to better understand a product, and not form an opinion based on videos, or worse, random folks off the internet.
A few years ago, Boulder used YG Sonja 1.2 at CES, in a small room. This is the result:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ces-2015-high-end-electronics-15k-and-up/
CES 2015: High-End Electronics $15k and Up
Show report
by Julie Mullins | Jan 16th, 2015
Most Significant Sounds Overall
Boulder DAC
This room appeared to have been billed as YG Acoustics’ secondary one of the two it sponsored at CES, but it could well have been its première chambre.
If you’re an analog hound (like some people we know are, but we won’t mention any names), you might be skeptical about digital. Really skeptical. Well, here’s a system that could change your mind. Personally, I am a big analog fan and I don’t despise digital, but this system turned even Jonathan Valin’s hardcore-analog head. Boulder’s amazing brand-new 2120 DAC (which will retail between $55k and $60k), sourcing its $55k 2110preamp and $53k 2160 600Wpc stereo amp, paired very nicely with YG Acoustics’ three-way Sonja 1. 2D’Appolito floorstanders.
Among several other alternative pop and classic R&B tunes, I was excited to give Calexico’s fine rendition of “Alone, Again, Or” a listen, and it simply swept me off my feet. The mariachi horns swelled in their rich, full glory, and the guitars sounded sublime. Truth be told, it was just about the only time I got goosebumps at the show.
Boulder’s app and user-friendly interface also impressed—and this was just the alpha version we were playing with!
Let’s just say this room had Jonathan by the, um, ears…and that alone speaks volumes.
She came back the next year, and this is what happened:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ces-2016-electronics-15k-and-up/
"YG Acoustics with Boulder electronics and DAC
I felt compelled to include this room in my top five in large part because it marked only one of a couple of times I experienced a frisson at the show. And the source was digital. It was during the Calexico version of “Alone Again, Or” played back on what must be one of the finest digital sources out there, the Boulder Amplifiers 2120 DAC. The Mexican-style guitar and mariachi horns came thrillingly alive via the YG Acoustics Sonja 1.3speakers with exciting attack and resolution galore. Sublime. Even JV stuck around to listen to a Bartók string quartet with dazzling glissandos, some Beach Boys, and a remix of Prince’s “Little Red Corvette.” Other demo system components here included Boulder 2150 mono power amplifiers ($99k/pr.), Boulder 2110 stereo preamp ($55k), and Kubala-Sosna Elation! cables and Xpander power distribution box. Although the big yet highly resolved sound wasn’t quite as true-to-life as some other systems with its front-focused projection, it still packed a powerful punch and beautiful color for fun listening."
The 2016 room with Sonja 1.3 was much bigger than the 2015 one. I've found a video of the 2015 room, which, obvious, doesn't tell you anything about tthe speaker and/or the system:
I don't do videos, sorry. I encourage people to look for their dealers to better understand a product, and not form an opinion based on videos, or worse, random folks off the internet.
A few years ago, Boulder used YG Sonja 1.2 at CES, in a small room. This is the result:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ces-2015-high-end-electronics-15k-and-up/
CES 2015: High-End Electronics $15k and Up
Show report
by Julie Mullins | Jan 16th, 2015
Most Significant Sounds Overall
Boulder DAC
This room appeared to have been billed as YG Acoustics’ secondary one of the two it sponsored at CES, but it could well have been its première chambre.
If you’re an analog hound (like some people we know are, but we won’t mention any names), you might be skeptical about digital. Really skeptical. Well, here’s a system that could change your mind. Personally, I am a big analog fan and I don’t despise digital, but this system turned even Jonathan Valin’s hardcore-analog head. Boulder’s amazing brand-new 2120 DAC (which will retail between $55k and $60k), sourcing its $55k 2110preamp and $53k 2160 600Wpc stereo amp, paired very nicely with YG Acoustics’ three-way Sonja 1. 2D’Appolito floorstanders.
Among several other alternative pop and classic R&B tunes, I was excited to give Calexico’s fine rendition of “Alone, Again, Or” a listen, and it simply swept me off my feet. The mariachi horns swelled in their rich, full glory, and the guitars sounded sublime. Truth be told, it was just about the only time I got goosebumps at the show.
Boulder’s app and user-friendly interface also impressed—and this was just the alpha version we were playing with!
Let’s just say this room had Jonathan by the, um, ears…and that alone speaks volumes.
She came back the next year, and this is what happened:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ces-2016-electronics-15k-and-up/
"YG Acoustics with Boulder electronics and DAC
I felt compelled to include this room in my top five in large part because it marked only one of a couple of times I experienced a frisson at the show. And the source was digital. It was during the Calexico version of “Alone Again, Or” played back on what must be one of the finest digital sources out there, the Boulder Amplifiers 2120 DAC. The Mexican-style guitar and mariachi horns came thrillingly alive via the YG Acoustics Sonja 1.3speakers with exciting attack and resolution galore. Sublime. Even JV stuck around to listen to a Bartók string quartet with dazzling glissandos, some Beach Boys, and a remix of Prince’s “Little Red Corvette.” Other demo system components here included Boulder 2150 mono power amplifiers ($99k/pr.), Boulder 2110 stereo preamp ($55k), and Kubala-Sosna Elation! cables and Xpander power distribution box. Although the big yet highly resolved sound wasn’t quite as true-to-life as some other systems with its front-focused projection, it still packed a powerful punch and beautiful color for fun listening."
The 2016 room with Sonja 1.3 was much bigger than the 2015 one. I've found a video of the 2015 room, which, obvious, doesn't tell you anything about tthe speaker and/or the system:
And Bodhi, you can comment all you want about "common sense", or about the speaker you own or owned, but don't pretend to know the speakers that you barely ever heard. I just pointed that you were wrong about the YGs, as you have no experience with them to be implying they work in this or that size room. That's all. It was not meant as a personal comment.
The Magico M2, M3 and M6 will all have different amounts of bass and frequency response specs. Likewise with the YG Hailey 2, Sonja 2.2 and Sonja 2.3. It's just a matter of finding the right speaker for your room, budget & musical tastes; the most critical aspect of which is room-speaker coupling imho.
Lol, wrong. And how ironic coming from a Dealer who carries YG and Wilson, but surprise surprise, does not carry Magico
..
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I am sure Alex was exaggerating about the closet.
I think there is a strong consensus that a speaker must be appropriate for the room. In a small room a smaller speaker may very well sound better than a more expensive, larger speaker.
I think there is a strong consensus that a speaker must be appropriate for the room. In a small room a smaller speaker may very well sound better than a more expensive, larger speaker.
Ron,
Well, I like my closets spacious But no, I'm not exaggerating! Look at the picture of these 1.3 in Munich 2017
If you've been to Munich, you'll remember those, they are the free-standing "pods", makeshift "rooms" put together on the main floor. Very thin walls, no isolation, no treatment, nothing. That just cannot work, right?
Well, this is what Jim Hannon of the Absolute Sound wrote:
"Two systems in pods on the ground floor of the main halls were also sonic standouts and had first-rate cabling (They also had their own air-conditioning systems so I was able to finally cool off!). SME showcased its 30/12turntable system with Ortofon A95 cartridge, the remarkable YG Acoustics Sonja 1.3 speakers, and impressive new Nagra electronics. Speaker and power cables were from Crystal Cable’s 100% monocrystal Absolute Dream series with Siltech Empress Crown RCA cables. An LP of The Planets was thrilling with explosive dynamics, very good tonal color, and lots of fine details emerging from a jet-black background (a hallmark of SME turntable systems). On another LP, Ben Webster’s sax was wonderfully rendered with lots of air and gorgeous timbre. This was a system that gelled nicely."
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/munich-high-end-2017-cables-power-products-and-accessories/
I was at that show, and I've heard bookshelf speakers in those pods that were boomy, while the YGs were excellent. There is also a report from Michael Fremer I believe, and he also proclaimed that to be one of the best "pod" presentations in all of Munich 2017.
Ron, you're a special case, my friend! You have 4 tower speakers that go 16Hz and you're still thinking about adding subs! *OF COURSE* a mere Hailey won't have the impact you expect As I noted earlier, this goes beyond estimating which speaker goes for each room, but determining what level of bass pressure/impact the person expects. That's why YG has just launched its own subwoofer line, to open a few different possibilities.
Well, I like my closets spacious
But no, I'm not exaggerating! Look at the picture of these 1.3 in Munich 2017
If you've been to Munich, you'll remember those, they are the free-standing "pods", makeshift "rooms" put together on the main floor. Very thin walls, no isolation, no treatment, nothing. That just cannot work, right?
Well, this is what Jim Hannon of the Absolute Sound wrote:
"Two systems in pods on the ground floor of the main halls were also sonic standouts and had first-rate cabling (They also had their own air-conditioning systems so I was able to finally cool off!). SME showcased its 30/12turntable system with Ortofon A95 cartridge, the remarkable YG Acoustics Sonja 1.3 speakers, and impressive new Nagra electronics. Speaker and power cables were from Crystal Cable’s 100% monocrystal Absolute Dream series with Siltech Empress Crown RCA cables. An LP of The Planets was thrilling with explosive dynamics, very good tonal color, and lots of fine details emerging from a jet-black background (a hallmark of SME turntable systems). On another LP, Ben Webster’s sax was wonderfully rendered with lots of air and gorgeous timbre. This was a system that gelled nicely."
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/munich-high-end-2017-cables-power-products-and-accessories/
I was at that show, and I've heard bookshelf speakers in those pods that were boomy, while the YGs were excellent. There is also a report from Michael Fremer I believe, and he also proclaimed that to be one of the best "pod" presentations in all of Munich 2017.
Ron, you're a special case, my friend! You have 4 tower speakers that go 16Hz and you're still thinking about adding subs! *OF COURSE* a mere Hailey won't have the impact you expect
As I noted earlier, this goes beyond estimating which speaker goes for each room, but determining what level of bass pressure/impact the person expects. That's why YG has just launched its own subwoofer line, to open a few different possibilities.
Although Kedar's view on horn is interesting and honest, it likely only for you to hear and get a taste of the sound of another camp. If I were you I would not consider horn given the kind of amplification that you have. Going from cone to horn is like revamping the whole system. Going from Q3 to Hailey I am also not sure it worths the price difference. Probably no. You likely find them different not better for most part. But it is certainly fun and educational to go around to hear different speakers like Kedar and Ron. I say stick with your Q3 and spend money on records. I often find $100 on a record gives better sound than changing cartridges.
Kind regards,
Tang
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@Ron Resnick I just want to say that I am enjoying the dealer reports. I hope to visit Alma some day and I love San Diego. Keep reporting good sir!
One thing that has struck me whenever I've listened to YG and Magico is that they need to be listened to at "proper" volume to come alive. If you drop below that the energy drains from the music, which I suspect is due to the sealed-box design common to both.
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