Visit to Boston to Hear the Sublime Sound of PeterA
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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Me too but I bought a Tascam DR-100 MkIII (very nice handheld recorder...no video) and record at 24/96 PCM wav files. It has a nice pair of built-in condesor mics. You learn a lot when played back through some high quality headphones.
I also think you can hear really a lot on some YouTube videos.
I have heard a lot of Magico and a lot of Pass but not together. I didn’t mean to imply I heard them together. But separately I have been universally disappointed with both. I have a lot of respect for Nelson’s writing on audio but less for his products...so far.
I would imagine he means the speakers' rear. I bet you are in for a treat in your new room in this regard with the Gryphon dipoles.
IMHO if you tell a lot from a YouTube view on high-end equipment it just shows how powerful are the suggestion and persuasion in this hobby.
I sometimes make digital recordings to control my analog evaluations and adjustments - but using a Korg MR2000S in DSD or 192/24 that records directly from the preamplifier output, bypassing the amplifier, speakers and microphone. Most systems used for YouTube videos have automatic gain control to set volume - these systems compress dynamics horribly. I have seen videos presented in WBF for direct comparison with differences in level over 6 dB - I can't see how people compare in such horrible conditions with any reliability. Surely IMHO, YMMV.
I have learned from my You Tube vids that I am a slobbophile, therefore, it is better to record in the dark.
https://youtu.be/qxadnEM0plg
https://youtu.be/qxadnEM0plg
Ron,
Forget 95% of what you read on audio forums concerning sound absorbers - they are written for monopoles, your speakers are dipoles. Please go reading the Siegfried Linkitz site http://www.linkwitzlab.com/reproduction.htm, the best site I have found on dipoles.
One of my preferred quotes from his site:
What you hear is not the air pressure variation in itself but what has drawn your attention
in the streams of superimposed air pressure variations at your eardrums
And yes, I have seen the speakers and room walls completely disappearing many times, even non treated ones. To my regret my current SoundLab's in my room are not the champions in this aspect. The speakers disappear, but not the feeling of having boundaries.
Due to my space limitations, my main speakers are placed about two feet from the front wall (thedistance between the front wall and the rear of my speakers). If the sound doesnt go beyond this depth, Ella would have to be piggyback riding Louis singing and I have no chance listening to orchestra. The sound depending on recording also goes beyond the left and right walls a few feet.
Kind regards,
Tang
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IMHO if you tell a lot from a YouTube view on high-end equipment it just shows how powerful are the suggestion and persuasion in this hobby.
I sometimes make digital recordings to control my analog evaluations and adjustments - but using a Korg MR2000S in DSD or 192/24 that records directly from the preamplifier output, bypassing the amplifier, speakers and microphone. Most systems used for YouTube videos have automatic gain control to set volume - these systems compress dynamics horribly. I have seen videos presented in WBF for direct comparison with differences in level over 6 dB - I can't see how people compare in such horrible conditions with any reliability. Surely IMHO, YMMV.
Thank you. I already thought I was alone in the wilderness here
Francisco, I am not clear what you are replying to. I was offering an opinion to Bill on his soundstage width question.
Thank you for the website link. Please know that I have owned dipole speakers since 1988. I have set dipoles up in four different rooms. I feel like I have some practical experience with dipole speakers.
Siegfried writes: "The listener is only 4' from the wall behind, and this might require some heavy curtains and other absorbing material on that wall." I agree with this, and I will affix absorbing material on the rear wall. I have put absorbing material on the rear wall in all three of the rooms in which I had set up my prior system.
Siegfried writes: "The wall behind the speakers should be diffusive. The rear radiation from a dipole must not be absorbed or it is no longer a dipole." I agree with not absorbing the back wave. (Many dipole owners absorb the back wave.) I generally have kept the front wall moderately reflective. This time I will start, again, by keeping the front wall moderately reflective (3/4" hardwood), but I am open to experimenting with diffusion materials on the front wall.
Siegfried writes that he disagrees with the "Rule of Thirds," and advises a longer middle section.
I have been planning to start with either the Rule of Thirds locations (recommended by Gryphon) which places the speakers 8' from the front wall into the room, or, alternatively, with the speakers 9' or 10' into the room. With the speakers even 10' from the front wall, I can sit 9' away from the panels and still have 5' behind my ears. (The visit to MikeL taught me not to be afraid to try an equilateral triangle listening set-up, and even to try sitting inside the equilateral triangle.)
The quote is interesting, but I do not see any practical advice in it, other than to be aware of the net effect of direct sound and various reflections.
I was addressing this sentence:
IMHO sound absorbers in the lateral walls do not make them disappear - they kill the reflections responsible for the widening of the room and making the walls disappear. IMHO we should only absorb in the back wall if we are extremely close to it or in very small rooms to deal with slap echo - but then I have preferred diffusion to absorption. But each room and speakers are different cases.
I see, okay. Interesting about not absorbing the side wall reflections. I will have to be attentive to listening for this.
I personally would put absorption on the rear wall if I am sitting about 5' or less from the rear wall. I agree each room and speakers are different cases.
(Overall, I am being very careful not to over-damp my future space (per MikeL and David). Right now, except for ASC Tube Traps in the front left and front right corners I am planning no acoustic treatment on the front wall or anywhere along the first two-thirds of the length of the side walls. I will experiment with diffusion versus absorption at the first reflection points.)
Thank you. I had thought you were referring to the combination. Can I ask you what SS amp designs you like and what brands? This might give me a sense of your taste and some context to your comments.
I might find something from First Watt to my liking or perhaps the single ended Tellurium Q amp but I cannot think of any push/pull Class AB or A amp that I could live with. I had SET hybrids from NAT and KR audio that were both very good (NAT was a typical hybrid but single ended transistor output...KR was transistor input and driver with SET output).
I went away from pure SS amps about 15 years ago and nothing I have heard since has tempted me to go back. I had a nice sounding Sphinx Project 14 mkiii, which was tube input and driver with push/pull MOSFET output but SET simply sounded better.
The BAT VK200 I had for a short while was not bad but lacked resolution. It had a reputation for being “tubey “ sounding but it didn’t sound like a good tube amp...maybe a mediocre one...
The only push pull amps I think have real potential are Class A triode (like CAT) or some OTLs. So far transistor PP amps are very disappointing sounding to me. Their lack of image dimensionality bothers me because when I listen live the sound from musicians has volume and only tubes seem to deliver this...SET in particular. That in the end was this biggest problem I had with the NAT hybrid...images lacked realistic volume and I think this was the character of the MOSFET output stage (since it was a single Transistor output per channel it was of course running full class A).
Also I find SS amps to lack micro dynamics and jump factor...they sound more tied down and staid.
So, sorry but I cannot really give you a list of SS amps I like ...there really aren’t any that I have so far heard...at least not enough to own one.
IMHO if you tell a lot from a YouTube view on high-end equipment it just shows how powerful are the suggestion and persuasion in this hobby.
I sometimes make digital recordings to control my analog evaluations and adjustments - but using a Korg MR2000S in DSD or 192/24 that records directly from the preamplifier output, bypassing the amplifier, speakers and microphone. Most systems used for YouTube videos have automatic gain control to set volume - these systems compress dynamics horribly. I have seen videos presented in WBF for direct comparison with differences in level over 6 dB - I can't see how people compare in such horrible conditions with any reliability. Surely IMHO, YMMV.
Sorry your comment about suggestion on YouTube vids does NOT seem to resonate with me. There are many YouTube vids where there are experiments to see whether you can hear the Strad from the cheapo violin or the expensive bow from the cheap bow, the treated and non treated rooms etc AND can be done blinded (the important bit) - as such the medium is sufficient for an evaluation of sorts. You can indeed determine certain facets of a system / room. I am not saying it is ideal nor should it be used for any quantitative analysis but nevertheless it is another way of audiophiles unable to travel around the world to hear systems.
I would be interested to hear a vid of your system if you would oblige. Most interested to hear your system reproduce a solo violin.
Best regards
Microstrip and Brad: I think I heard you both mentioning diffusion on lateral walls to widen the lateral image. This is important information for me. Please could you expand on this or share some experiences or tips
Cheers
Cheers
The SMT diffusers at first reflection points, behind the speakers, and behind the listener, as well as on the floor as experienced with and without across Elberoth's, flyer's, and jazzhead's room does widen the stage and create more back to front and top to bottom soundstage, and makes things less fuzzy.
At Jazzhead, his room size is 25x11 but his room is very well managed now, loads of SMT, though it required shun mooks to take it over the top.
Bill you can also get a demo of RPG from Keith.
At Jazzhead, his room size is 25x11 but his room is very well managed now, loads of SMT, though it required shun mooks to take it over the top.
Bill you can also get a demo of RPG from Keith.
Integrating SMT diffusers in a living room is a serious challenge. Either you opt for the acrylic ones that are transparent or you need to consider covering them with fabric. But they are indeed highly effective.
I once compared three rare and expensive violins with a cheap modern one ( my ex is a first chair violinist). I also recorded here on R2R tape playing Paganini Caprices on a Strad. I consider solo violin a good test of all but bass.
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