Visit to Gryphon Audio Designs / Pendragon Review

[TitaniumTroy]

Great review Ron, I had a feeling whatever speaker you went with would have a ribbon in it. How would you compare Magnepan's True Ribbon Tweeter vs the Pendragon's quasi ribbon and AMT Super Tweeter? I would assume the Pendragon's will play much louder, however I do like the wide off axis dispersion of the True Ribbon Tweet.

Supposedly Magnepan has moved the crossover higher in the 3.7's, in order to get the crossover out of the midrange and and kill the old 1-2khz suckout. Also does anyone make a bass tower dipole out of cone woofers , and if so I wonder what it sounds like.

When I want to test a speakers for a large sense of scale, I like to use some Pink Floyd. As I think they have a huge soundstage. Last speaker session I did, was comparing a medium size pair of Sonus Faber's to the Neoliths, no comparison. The SF sounded small and un-invovling to compare the larger than life Neolith. Also use a lot of movie soundtracks recorded by Telarc in standard CD and SACD.

I also like vocals that sound life like in size, and are not too diffuse. Maggies without the true ribbon tweeter sound too diffuse to me, but what do you expect. The true ribbon is 1/4" wide vs something like 2" on the old 1.6's mid/tweeter. My wooden QRD's diffusers behind my 3.6's also help in this, making vocals and instruments more focused in detail and imaging.

 

[Down Under]

As LL21, I'm also a lover of Gryphon. I found it very interesting observations and comparisons with loudspeakears of the other manufacturers, mainly in relation to Arrakis.

Their comments made me very excited to have the opportunity to hear the Pendragon. Very soon I will be listening to the Trident 2, I look forward to that moment.


PS. I saw your review in Mono and Stereo too.





Hi Ricardo,
Pandora and Mephisto-when did that happen?
I note the Kalliope is not mentioned-hopefully just a typo.
Big congrats on the amps.
Ross

 

[rnsa2000]

Hi Ricardo,

For me, i am very happy with my X1s and Velodyne DD18+ (plays on below 40hz). However, if i did not own the X1s, the Altair would probably be a fantastic choice. And the ultimate would have to include Genesis 1.2, Arrakis and now it appears Pendragon for audition. I cannot think of any other speakers i would prefer over my current speakers.

You could certainly easily drive a big Wilson with your Mephisto...easily.

Lloyd,

I appreciate your comments, the big Wilson is a good way, I'll look this idea.


Best regards,
Ricardo.

 

[LL21]

Lloyd,

I appreciate your comments, the big Wilson is a good way, I'll look this idea.


Best regards,
Ricardo.

Happy to help...just one man's opinion. All i can say is getting 'your regional/country expert' at setting up your Wilsons will make a HUGE difference. Not only does placement matter and not only do each of the 3 upper modules move up/down and in/out...but the resistors for each cone need to be adjusted/changed in order to accommodate your system, room and of course your ear.

And every change of those above WILL make a difference in many cases. Certainly in all 3 of the rooms i have auditioned Wilsons over the years, the subtlest changes in setup made huge changes in sound. Hard, brittle, balanced, boomy, etc.

 

[rnsa2000]

Hi Ricardo,
Pandora and Mephisto-when did that happen?
I note the Kalliope is not mentioned-hopefully just a typo.
Big congrats on the amps.
Ross

Hi Ross,

I made the purchase in August of the last year. I'm currently changing the system to a bigger room and watching new speakers to replace my Mojo. I love my Mojo, but right now I'm aiming for greater heights.

At this momment I'm only with analog sources, the Kalliope go out to the new owner.

Thanks for your congrats.


Best regards,
Ricardo.

 

[rnsa2000]

Ron and all,

sorry for my off-toppic, I'll continue in other thread.

-> http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...io-Audiophile-Experiences&p=337536#post337536


Best regards for all,
Ricardo.

 

[TitaniumTroy]

Ron, is their a reason the AMT tweeters are not a full line source like the planer ribbon section, just curious?

 

[Down Under]

Hi Ross,

I made the purchase in August of the last year. I'm currently changing the system to a bigger room and watching new speakers to replace my Mojo. I love my Mojo, but right now I'm aiming for greater heights.

At this momment I'm only with analog sources, the Kalliope go out to the new owner.

Thanks for your congrats.


I don't think I could part with a Kalliope if I had one-gutsy move and I am sure the recipient is very happy.
Don't underestimate the Pantheon loudspeaker-I have heard it sound magnificent in an all Gryphon system.There is a Spanish review that can be found on the Gryphon Facebook page.He drives it with Gryphon and then Ypsilon amps to compare.
Keep us posted when you hear the Trident.
Exciting times for you!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, is their a reason the AMT tweeters are not a full line source like the planer ribbon section, just curious?

The AMT Tweeters cover from 18 kHz and up. They are only there to provide some "air." I do not know why there is not a whole line of them.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, is their a reason the AMT tweeters are not a full line source like the planer ribbon section, just curious?

I now have the answer from an authoritative source: Given that the AMT tweeter is working only from 18 kHz and up, and the wavelengths in that range are very short, a much shorter line-source is all that is required.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Great review Ron, I had a feeling whatever speaker you went with would have a ribbon in it. How would you compare Magnepan's True Ribbon Tweeter vs the Pendragon's quasi ribbon and AMT Super Tweeter? I would assume the Pendragon's will play much louder, however I do like the wide off axis dispersion of the True Ribbon Tweet.

Supposedly Magnepan has moved the crossover higher in the 3.7's, in order to get the crossover out of the midrange and and kill the old 1-2khz suckout. Also does anyone make a bass tower dipole out of cone woofers , and if so I wonder what it sounds like.

I have not listened to the Magnepan ribbon tweeter in a long time.

I am not aware of a standalone woofer tower which is open at the back. The woofer array built into the SoulSonic hybrid speaker is open at the back.

 

[Zero000]

Good review Ron. I'd like to hear a pair versus the SoulSonic's, which look rather more pleasing to these eyes.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I spent a lot of time with Miro, of SoulSonic, in Munich. He is very smart, inventive and totally delightful!

I don't foresee being able to audition them but the Impulse sure does look interesting and capable.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Ron, how's it going?
came across your recent updates, seems like you finally hit the mark with your speaker quest. so the Gryphon pendragons- how arw they going? Have you taken delivery as yet?

I am sure the VTL'S will be a superb match on the panels and that being ribbons. would like to know your impressions and how the pendi's interact with your room.

I was just telling wifey about the pendi's and how much they cost, since we listened to a pair of the posidens few years back through Spore, very impressive and big sound. massive soundstage, definitely requires an equally massive room.

The wife laughed and told me that I could certainly have the pendi's based on the following 3 points:
1. I would need to get her a diamond ring of equal value (since she loves & knows her diamonds).
2. I need to set up a private concert for my daughter with both Drake and the Weekend (probably might throw in JB just for added ambiance).
3. book a private cruise around the Caribbean islands for one whole month with all meals and amenities provided including the usual spas and other lavish treatments.

Since I can't afford any of these, she said that I could settle for the CLX'S instead! what a wonderful wifey eh?

by the way, I think the pendi's look bloody amazing, sounds like it delivers all that you were looking for in a speaker system. of course it's not going to have the transparency of stats, that is something that is embedded in the dna of stats, otherwise they would not be known as stats.
for now I'm just enjoying my humble Quads with my new humble cj Cav45, superb musicality btw.
The CLX'S will be a long way off for me, so this point in time, I'm simply enjoying my music.

Take it easy and have a good one. no disrespect on pendragons calling them "pendi's" it's an Aussie thing. we like to shorten form nearly every possible word usually ending with an "I" or "e" pronounciation at the end, hence wifey...

btw I sincerely think you have an extremely understanding wife who allows this level of indulgence. hence every time I will upgrade my system I can take your case as a happy loving example! surely she'll understand.
It's also very encouraging to know that your significant other enjoys music at an equal level. I think you have made a good match with that pre-power combination!

as Aussie's say, "good on ya mate!"
Cheers Ron and thanks for your valuable reviews. always a pleasure to read & learn.
rj

 

[Ron Resnick]

Dear RJ,

Thank you for your post and your thoughts! My wife liked your kinds words about her!

CLXs will be amazing as well!

No, I do not have the Pendragons yet. It will be about a year before the listening room is ready for new equipment. Just yesterday I wrapped the VTLs in plastic and put them in the shower, out of the way of the repair work in the rest of the house.

Best wishes,

Ron

 

[JackD201]

Hi Ron

I hope that work on the retaining wall is going as planned. i can't wait to have see you back on your audio feet again. Keep me posted so I can plan a trip to LA to coincide with the recommissioning of your "Fully Operational Battle Station"

Jack

 

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day Ron,

Good to hear from you mate. I was wondering where you were hibernating...

Oh! so it's going to take a while until your room is refurbished. When you said that you placed the VTL's in the shower, it reminded me of an old mate back in home town; he had the Avant Garde Trio's (classico series & later on the Omega's) in a very small room, was not at all suitable for large horns, especially Avant Garde. Anyway, he always seem to run out of space, and in this little room that was an attached toilet/shower- and he used to store most of his unused gear in that area! We used to joke around and remind him not to turn on the faucet...

I think you have struck a good cord with the Pendragons, seems like they will be your ultimate lifetime speaker system. I am also very glad to learn that your better half also enjoys and appreciates your passion for music and highend audio. This is something more enjoyable when the better halves also accept the high value we place our music in. It gives all the more reason to listen together and share thoughts about music in many forms, afterall it brings people together and relaxes the soul.

I finally made the switch to Martin Logan's after listening to Kostas system (CLX Art with Pass Labs amplification). I just couldn't enjoy my Quads any longer, also wanted to part with them since they were in working condition and I know the dealer chappy will find a deserving owner. The Quads were great and gave me many years of listening pleasure with my CJ gear for nearly 20 years, starting with the older ESL63's but that's about where it stops! These newer versions coming out of China are absolute poor quality & reliability, yet they charge premium prices.

I parked the CLX thought for a while, and settled for the Ethos after careful evaluation. I also listened to the Summit X extensively and the Montis as well. To me, and for my room plus the amplifier I had, the Ethos was the best match overall. It delivers all that the Summit does with superb integrated bass having built in DSP and it can play equally loud. The only thing it can't do is reach down to the depths of the Summit bass, which I really don't require. I also found the line up starting from the Ethos up to the Summits, were only of marginal improvement, with little improvements in having larger panel area going horizontal, whereas the vertical plane is exactly the same.

The significant improvement that justifies the extra spend by a far margin is the CLX. It's performance ratio outweighs all in the line up, and I have never come across stat bass as prominent as the CLX can produce. It is totally a new experience for me, the speed, articulation, linearity and resolution of the bass is superb! No Martin Logan hybrid can reproduce the bass to the same effect as the CLX, in my opinion. Now they have a new line called the Masterpiece series and it's priced way above the CLX but I am not sure whether it can perform the same compared to a full range stat. The dealer chappy is trying to order in the new series and see how the Aussie market reacts. I was told the starting point for the Renaissance would be around 45 grand, that's an awful lot to spend on just speakers, let alone the amplification to drive it.

Anyway, my wifey also loves the Ethos, her first reaction to it was what are these mesh looking contraptions? and where is the rest of the speaker? Martin who? these were the initial reactions but when she did actually listen, she acknowledged they were a far cry ahead of what I previously had, and did like them very much at the end. So good one there indeed.

I am sure your Pendragons would be well looked after during the set up process by Gryphon. Would be nice to learn your initial thoughts after set up and run in. I always thought that you would settle for a Genesis system, or perhaps the Martin Logan Statements E3- if there was one available. Since these are made in the US but seems like your ventures took you as far as Denmark. Would have been a massive learning curve for me to listen to your system when finally set up. I can only draw from my previous experiences with the Infinities IRSV's during their hay day, and of course the cumbersome IRS 1B system that I had, what a pain in the butt it was to get going, especially that Infinity active crossover, finicky thing it was, never could properly balance any of its controls. Thank goodness for DSP and digital room correction software, what a breeze!

Have a good one Ron, and do keep us posted.
Cheers, RJ

 

[bonzo75]

I agree with you about Ethos and Summit X. Good decision

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Bonzo mate, cheers for that.

BTW, that Auralex Iso Tone TT platform is bloody great mate! I can't believe the amount of improvement in resolution my simple RP3 delivers! I got the dealer chappy to come around and have a listen, he can't believe it either and now wants to order the Iso Tones for his showroom but the owner is not so willing... They really don't look anything fancy at all but my golly! whatever they're doing, they're doing something VERY right!

Superb gadget mate, can't thank you enough for that recommendation on Auralex.
I know you mentioned the Auralex speaker pads, and to spike the Ethos into these but I will be moving house soon, and plan to build a proper room or at least with proper treatment. So therefore the time being, I wanted something to fix the silly vibration issues with the Ethos bass going crazy on the TT, and Iso Tone it was!

Sorry, I got carried away here with my usual nonsense, after all this is Ron's Pendi's speaker thread, cheers again.
RJ

 

[bonzo75]

The Gryphon Pantheons - heard with the Gryphon Colosseum, Burmester 956, and a Norweigan Amp called Adyton. Gryphon Mikado and Mirage. Swapped the KEF Blades with the Pantheon in the session.

The Gryphon Standamounts are good for the size.

Also the Burmester 088 was set up for a compare with the AR LS27