Wadax Reference Dac and Server arrive

[Kingrex]

I can definitely relate to the frustration of not being able to unhear amazing sound. Which MSB did you compare the Mojo to? I have owned the Mojo Mystique Evo with upgrades and now own a MSB Reference, in my system there is quite a large gap. I replaced the Mojo Mystique Evo with a Holo Audio May KTE (2 box R2R) and the Holo was better in almost every way (for my taste in my system). Of course the MSB is another significant jump up.

I think it's all down to personal taste and music preference. For me, although I like the analog sound, I also value speed, visceral impact, tangibility and transparency. But for someone else, those things could be much further down the priority list.

For DACs at mortal prices, there is the Pilium Elektra that's getting a lot of rave feedback, as well as Aries Cerat Helene and Kassandra. Though I think none of those will be 100% neutral.

Lastly, I can't help but reflect back to Capital Audio Fest, where the best sounding room to me had the cheapest digital source. It was the Kharma Exquisite Midi, powered by CJ Art 300 monos and Gat 2 pre, all fed by a 10+ yr old $300 CD player, Cambridge Audio 740c. It had the most natural yet polished sound, literally like performers in the room. This is the same show with $1M+ VAC, Esoteric and VS system as well as the Bending Wave room with Wadax Ref DAC and server feeding Gobel speakers. Seems like there is more than one path to get to audio nirvana.

I'm not sure what your saying about DAC. Is your ranking Mojo, Halo, MSB? I had a discreate with 1 PS and the USB module. The Mojo was better.
Where is you signature with equipment? I looked to see what your vinyl. is My reference for digital performance is vinyl, or tape. When I get my digital better than my vinyl, well then it flips and I go improving my vinyl until it surpasses my digital again. Its a horrible game I play with myself. Neither beat my tape.

To your point of CD players, I have been on a little kick looking at SD players. I am not getting much traction though. The point is a SD player done correct can be like a CD. A CD done correct is superior to a server via USB to a DAC because the CD player bypasses the kernel. All the jitter that is in the Kernel/USB path is eliminated. Done right in a CD player, your talking the data stream and sending it I2S directly into the DAC chip. Or so my very limited understanding of computer audio has been lead to believe. Sure there is still a lot to do with PS, Isolation, vibration control etc. But simple usually rules.

Pilium is $40K. Mojo EVO is $9K to $11.5K. A big gap in price. But yes, $40K is approaching a more reasonable cost for people with a "mature" system.

 

[divertiti]

I'm not sure what your saying about DAC. Is your ranking Mojo, Halo, MSB? I had a discreate with 1 PS and the USB module. The Mojo was better.
Where is you signature with equipment? I looked to see what your vinyl. is My reference for digital performance is vinyl, or tape. When I get my digital better than my vinyl, well then it flips and I go improving my vinyl until it surpasses my digital again. Its a horrible game I play with myself. Neither beat my tape.

To your point of CD players, I have been on a little kick looking at SD players. I am not getting much traction though. The point is a SD player done correct can be like a CD. A CD done correct is superior to a server via USB to a DAC because the CD player bypasses the kernel. All the jitter that is in the Kernel/USB path is eliminated. Done right in a CD player, your talking the data stream and sending it I2S directly into the DAC chip. Or so my very limited understanding of computer audio has been lead to believe. Sure there is still a lot to do with PS, Isolation, vibration control etc. But simple usually rules.

Pilium is $40K. Mojo EVO is $9K to $11.5K. A big gap in price. But yes, $40K is approaching a more reasonable cost for people with a "mature" system.

Yes that is my ranking, but obviously that applies to my taste and in my system. I can definitely see someone preferring the Mojo over the Discrete with only 1 PSU and the USB module, I think the 2nd power supply and the Pro ISL module elevates the performance quite a bit. I don't have a vinyl system right now even though I have some records kicking around, system is all digital involving MSB, Boulder, Joseph Audio.

That's a good point on CD players, maybe the short signal path and coherence between transport and DAC was helping in the instance of the Kharma room, but I was just really shocked at the disparity in price and how it challenged my pre-conceived notion of source-first.

Yeah pricing is all relative, in this crazy hobby of ours it can definitely get out of hand very easily and very quickly.

 

[Daverich4]

Lee Morgan's "Search for a New Land" 192/24-Quboz......just started......sweeeeet

Hey!!! Here too. (Well, it’s because you suggested it but still…)

 

[K3RMIT]

I can definitely relate to the frustration of not being able to unhear amazing sound. Which MSB did you compare the Mojo to? I have owned the Mojo Mystique Evo with upgrades and now own a MSB Reference, in my system there is quite a large gap. I replaced the Mojo Mystique Evo with a Holo Audio May KTE (2 box R2R) and the Holo was better in almost every way (for my taste in my system). Of course the MSB is another significant jump up.

I think it's all down to personal taste and music preference. For me, although I like the analog sound, I also value speed, visceral impact, tangibility and transparency. But for someone else, those things could be much further down the priority list.

For DACs at mortal prices, there is the Pilium Elektra that's getting a lot of rave feedback, as well as Aries Cerat Helene and Kassandra. Though I think none of those will be 100% neutral.

Lastly, I can't help but reflect back to Capital Audio Fest, where the best sounding room to me had the cheapest digital source. It was the Kharma Exquisite Midi, powered by CJ Art 300 monos and Gat 2 pre, all fed by a 10+ yr old $300 CD player, Cambridge Audio 740c. It had the most natural yet polished sound, literally like performers in the room. This is the same show with $1M+ VAC, Esoteric and VS system as well as the Bending Wave room with Wadax Ref DAC and server feeding Gobel speakers. Seems like there is more than one path to get to audio nirvana.

Can you clarify the room at cap fest
to me the analog was best of show
there digital was hurting it’s why they ended up playing cd s
so is Your comment based on them playing digital or analog ? The few times I stopped in it was analog playing.
also the CJ devices were not stock all had Cust upgraded caps
I don’t recall the wadax room don’t know why. Guess I missed it somehow
but the tidal playing idion stack was very good
now the vac von room in digital was off the chain with both sets of speakers in there.

 

[Audiocrack]

Mike, is the Wadax reference combo with Akasa cable getting better and better by the day in your experience now that it is has had (some) time to settle in?

 

[divertiti]

Can you clarify the room at cap fest
to me the analog was best of show
there digital was hurting it’s why they ended up playing cd s
so is Your comment based on them playing digital or analog ? The few times I stopped in it was analog playing.
also the CJ devices were not stock all had Cust upgraded caps
I don’t recall the wadax room don’t know why. Guess I missed it somehow
but the tidal playing idion stack was very good
now the vac von room in digital was off the chain with both sets of speakers in there.

The room was the Kharma with CJ room, so the same room you are referring to. When I heard it, it was playing digital through the Cambridge CD player because like you noted, their Lampizator DAC and Aurender streamer just weren't working. I haven't heard analog in that room, but I can imagine it might be even better. Even with the digital, it was a completely analog, coherent, natural sound but with all the layering, solidity, and tactility to form a realistic image. I was in awe and many others were as well.

The Bending Wave Wadax room was located near by, I think it was just to the left of the Kharma room. It had Gobel speakers, Parasound JC1+ monos, and CH Precision preamp

 

[thomask]

in my mind the MSB was the model for 'more real' digital for me; by degrees compared to other digital i had heard. the MSB had that continuousness and ease along with decay and overtones. so it was able to get me close to and immersed in the music. very satisfying listening.

that said, the Wadax experience is next level for those things; i am getting vinyl type emotional connection now. a paradigm shift.

MSB Select II was the best Dac I had listened seriously.


If Mike think that Wadax is another level above, then I am tempted to listen to it myself visiting Mike's home.

 

[microstrip]

(...)
Lastly, I can't help but reflect back to Capital Audio Fest, where the best sounding room to me had the cheapest digital source. It was the Kharma Exquisite Midi, powered by CJ Art 300 monos and Gat 2 pre, all fed by a 10+ yr old $300 CD player, Cambridge Audio 740c. It had the most natural yet polished sound, literally like performers in the room. This is the same show with $1M+ VAC, Esoteric and VS system as well as the Bending Wave room with Wadax Ref DAC and server feeding Gobel speakers. Seems like there is more than one path to get to audio nirvana.

I am happy that someone else acknowledges how good conrad johnson electronics can sound with digital sources. I enjoyed cj since my days the great three (better, four) box premier 7A, but the event that triggered my attention to dCS was listening to the dCS Elgar/Purcell complete stack with cj electronics . As you say, like performers in the room - and by the time I could afford a dCS stack it had become the Vivaldi. In fact, currently my heart balances between the cj GAT2/ART amplifiers and the ARC REF40/VTL Siegfried II. A difficult choice.

We can see more details on the referred system at https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021...r-kable-torus-power-artesania-audio-caf-2021/

 

[2ndLiner]

I am happy that someone else acknowledges how good conrad johnson electronics can sound with digital sources. I enjoyed cj since my days the great three (better, four) box premier 7A, but the event that triggered my attention to dCS was listening to the dCS Elgar/Purcell complete stack with cj electronics . As you say, like performers in the room - and by the time I could afford a dCS stack it had become the Vivaldi. In fact, currently my heart balances between the cj GAT2/ART amplifiers and the ARC REF40/VTL Siegfried II. A difficult choice.

We can see more details on the referred system at https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021...r-kable-torus-power-artesania-audio-caf-2021/

Both of those combinations must be lovely, @microstrip. I get elegant, beautiful, life-like sound with my CJ GAT2 and VAC 200iq's!

 

[Audiocrack]

I

...and now you got me thinking about the Troy grounding component; the Elite NG see to be something...will be difficult to audition though...

I do not know who you (with “you” in your message) are referring to, but adding a Tripoint grounding box will always yield great musical benefits … so go for it because you will not be disappointed.

 

[divertiti]

I am happy that someone else acknowledges how good conrad johnson electronics can sound with digital sources. I enjoyed cj since my days the great three (better, four) box premier 7A, but the event that triggered my attention to dCS was listening to the dCS Elgar/Purcell complete stack with cj electronics . As you say, like performers in the room - and by the time I could afford a dCS stack it had become the Vivaldi. In fact, currently my heart balances between the cj GAT2/ART amplifiers and the ARC REF40/VTL Siegfried II. A difficult choice.

We can see more details on the referred system at https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021...r-kable-torus-power-artesania-audio-caf-2021/

Yes, that room made me question a lot of preconceived notions I had, including those about the CJ brand specifically as well as the importance of different parts of the system in general. I could not believe how good that room sounded with an old low end CD player, I can't imagine what it would sound like with a top flight source. I haven't heard the VTL amp, but I have never been impressed with any ARC system I've heard. My only reservation with CJ gear would be that it only has RCA SE inputs. Either way that's an awesome problem to have, looking forward to the impressions once the decision is made.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

with the Wadax Ref dac and server i've been sampling large orchestral streaming recordings, since i've not yet loaded my long term reference files. this can be 'big' music. very complex. i find i can really push it as there are zero digital artifacts. until you hear it absent those things, who knew that's what it was? must have been in the recording? nope.

there is no glassy sheen on strings, no jagged edges on transients, no timbral nasties, nothing but smooth natural music. liquid and continuous. i'm sitting here listening to a nice Beethoven's 9th (Gaffigan/Luzerner Sinfonieorchester--Quboz 96/24) and slowly upping the volume setting. past the previous "excess cringe" safety point. nothing is telling me this is reproduced music. there is 'air' around instruments, vocals are direct and set in space. i'm feeling the pulse of the music. you get a sense of whole persons singing. absent distractions the musical flow and immersion is complete.

no thoughts of digital or analog or anything but music. i'm not judging this performance, just commenting on the experience. and this makes me want to listen to more large orchestral. this opens up so much music to me to more than sample.

 

[jonyung]

"there is no glassy sheen on strings, no jagged edges on transients, no timbral nasties,...."

Mike

You wouldn't find this, no matter where you look!... Even in nasty youtube mp4 streaming.
Also, Iv'e found the height of the singers in the Beethoven's 9th is just right, exactly like in a real concert

Enjoy

 

[spiritofmusic]

"there is no glassy sheen on strings, no jagged edges on transients, no timbral nasties,...."

Mike

You wouldn't find this, no matter where you look!... Even in nasty youtube mp4 streaming.
Also, Iv'e found the height of the singers in the Beethoven's 9th is just right, exactly like in a real concert

Enjoy

I guess this post proves we really all do hear very differently.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I guess this post proves we really all do hear very differently.

not sure what you are referring to.

member jonyung owns a Wadax Ref dac, so i can certainly understand why he would post that. as far as an mp4 streaming file not having digital nasties, not tried one with the Wadax. but i could see how it might not have those. which is a separate idea from the level of musicality and information from low rez.

maybe my favorite music i've heard in the last couple of years is an mp4 Youtube.....i watch it weekly. not yet tired of it. and the visuals bring much to the table. the sound is sufficient to do the job. i can access the 96 (88?)/24 on Quboz but the Youtube gets my nod. i'll take my music any way it happens to most grab me.

 

[jonyung]

Maybe I should learn to explain with examples. Perhaps I was too vague in my description.

I love Devieilhe as well, and the warner youtube video is indeed one of my favorites.

One of the special aspects of Wadax is its ability to extract out the "Human aspect" of music making, the ability to give a Balanced presentation of music as a Live, human endeavor, that the musician is trying to convey an emotion... its hard to put in words, but so god damn obvious even in low resolution files....I went into a direction opposite to Mike, I wanted to see how deep the rabbit hole goes for low resolution files, and I havn't found the bottom as yet

 

[jonyung]

Sometimes, really precious music making is not available in the best resolution that I would like. I am personally more that happy to accept lower resolution, but Wadax is able to allow that sense of "being there" in the concert hall, its a feeling, a sense of occasion, rather than simply "Air", "soundstage", "image depth",.. these Hi Fi vocabulary and analysis is there, just that it doesn't present it in front of your face...

Here's another example of find pianism in really terrible resolution...I think I may risk being kicked out of Whatsbestforum for being so ridiculous, but I hope you may be able to appreciate
the exquisite pianism.....

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ah Mike, I was unaware he owned the dac. Of course, YT, MP3s thru many other DACs really aren't artifact free, hence my comment.

 

[kswanson27]

Mike, have you formed an opinion yet on the Wadax server vs the Extreme?

 

[jonyung]

Ah Mike, I was unaware he owned the dac. Of course, YT, MP3s thru many other DACs really aren't artifact free, hence my comment.

Hi Spirit
Youtube/MP3 do have lots of artifacts, I can only agree, Wadax also lets you know that the artifacts are there, you just don't notice it, unless you focus on those aspects.

BTW, I noticed you used EERA CD player, NAT audio with Mullards and GE 211s and Zu Definitions. Great combination I think. I used to envy the Helios stargate CD player decades ago, loved the French approach to music ( If I remember correctly, the EERA are decendants of the Helios). The Mullard 6DJ8s are great, I used to own some "wrinkle glass 6DJ8s and they are magical!. The Zu will balance the tube with great speed and definition.