What Credentials Should An Acoustician Have

[Nyal Mellor]

Interesting thread...

There are no degrees or formal qualifications granted by colleges etc that I know of on the subject of 'small room acoustics'. There are maybe 3 masters college courses in the world that offer some kind of acoustics education - Salford, Southamption, Aalborg. Is there one in the US? I have only looked at the Salford syllabus in depth because I was at one point serious considering applying. However from what I remember they offer maybe one semester of tuition in small room acoustics. The rest is general stuff including quite a few modules on mathematical modeling.

There are many firms and individuals out there with strong backgrounds in architectural acoustics (big spaces, such as concert halls and auditoriums). That is in no way an indication of their ability to work in small rooms. In fact it may even be a hindrance. One of the worst designs I saw for a home theater was from a local acoustics company who specialized in this kind of area. They just had no understanding of the way a small room works and their design showed it. Room modes? What are they says the big room acoustician.

In addition I would add that there are many things in small rooms that require real world experience to understand. There are facets of non-environment design (a studio design philosophy / approach) and in particular the bass trapping used within that even the hardcore wave acoustics guys cannot model. Yet they work. The designer's real world experience trumps the theory and modeling.

A small room acoustician should understand enough of the math and theory to know what is going on but all of that should be tempered by real world experience. If they know enough to help an individual who can afford them improve their sound quality and listening enjoyment isn't that all that matters?!

An interesting parallel discussion would be 'what credentials should a speaker designer have' or even 'what credentials should an amplifier designer have'?

 

[Ethan Winer]

^^^ Excellent post Nyal.

 

[FrantzM]

Interesting thread...

There are no degrees or formal qualifications granted by colleges etc that I know of on the subject of 'small room acoustics'. There are maybe 3 masters college courses in the world that offer some kind of acoustics education - Salford, Southamption, Aalborg. Is there one in the US? I have only looked at the Salford syllabus in depth because I was at one point serious considering applying. However from what I remember they offer maybe one semester of tuition in small room acoustics. The rest is general stuff including quite a few modules on mathematical modeling.

There are many firms and individuals out there with strong backgrounds in architectural acoustics (big spaces, such as concert halls and auditoriums). That is in no way an indication of their ability to work in small rooms. In fact it may even be a hindrance. One of the worst designs I saw for a home theater was from a local acoustics company who specialized in this kind of area. They just had no understanding of the way a small room works and their design showed it. Room modes? What are they says the big room acoustician.

In addition I would add that there are many things in small rooms that require real world experience to understand. There are facets of non-environment design (a studio design philosophy / approach) and in particular the bass trapping used within that even the hardcore wave acoustics guys cannot model. Yet they work. The designer's real world experience trumps the theory and modeling.

A small room acoustician should understand enough of the math and theory to know what is going on but all of that should be tempered by real world experience. If they know enough to help an individual who can afford them improve their sound quality and listening enjoyment isn't that all that matters?!

An interesting parallel discussion would be 'what credentials should a speaker designer have' or even 'what credentials should an amplifier designer have'?

Excellent post!

I also was also wondering about the paragraph I put in bold

 

[microstrip]

(...) An interesting parallel discussion would be 'what credentials should a speaker designer have' or even 'what credentials should an amplifier designer have'?

I appreciated your post, but IMHO it is not a parallel discussion, except for the time it would be carried. We can easily borrow and test speakers or electronics to listen in our systems, listen in shops or educate our selves about equipment. But it is impossible to listen for the references of most acousticians, and there is not a information enough about small room acoustics that allows someone to make an educated choice. Steve was not a newcomer in these affairs, and as he told us he spent a few months before making a choice. Also serious room treatment is not something you change easily - if you compromise with the wrong people it is not just an affair of sending it back after the trial period.

All this makes certification of acousticians much more important than that of designers of equipment. Perhaps it is not possible, but it would be desirable. All IMHO and in my humble experience.

BTW, I think you are forgetting at least the German and Brazilian schools of acoustics in your list. As far as I know they have courses on small room acoustics.

 

[mep]

As for what credentials an amplifier designer should have, I will settle for the ability to design great amplifiers and bring them to market. There are some jobs where it's hard to fool people.

 

[Nyal Mellor]

I was thinking about this some more...

From my perspective as someone who is trying to make a living in this area it seems there are a handful of top designers (the Yates, Hodas, type people) who if you can afford their rates then you can be pretty much guaranteed of a good outcome.

As consumers do you not think that if you employ a big name then you are pretty much guaranteed great results?

If you do think so then isn't it only a question of being able to afford them?

If you can't afford their rates well then it is a market economy - and the customer has the power here in choosing what they do or do not buy. Each acoustician's value proposition must be worth it to that individual customer. One customer may have no issue paying $300/hr, another may baulk at that and want someone half that price.

As to the subject of certification, well it could be a good start, but there is much more to being a good consultant and partner for a customer than simply a certification. Customer service, the ability to listen, the ability to be innovative, work to a budget and timeline, etc etc. I would also add that the acoustician is often the room designer as well, and determines other things like aesthetics, lighting, HVAC, electrical, etc. Should the acoustician have certifications or qualifications in architecture, interior design, HVAC, electrical engineering?

What would you include on the syllabus?

People shopping for an acoustician could always keep one or two questions up their sleeve. Think of a hard one like 'what role does a speaker's off axis performance have in the acoustic designs you develop?'. Plus that and don't be afraid to ask for testimonials and / or references.

Has anyone had a bad experience with an acoustician where the room turned out terrible? I'm sure with the knowledge of the community here a 'check list' for acousticians could be put together by those people who have worked with them. A thread could be put together, left to run it's course and then the best bits edited and made into a sticky.

 

[JackD201]

99.999999% of the time people hire acousticians because they themselves lack the time or knowledge to execute the proper design. Notice I said "the" proper design and not "a" proper design. "The" proper design for that specific project is something that needs to be determined so the deliverables can be pegged down. This takes a lot of communication between service provider and client. That's something that is learned from experience and not in a classroom.

 

[Steve williams]

99.999999% of the time people hire acousticians because they themselves lack the time or knowledge to execute the proper design. Notice I said "the" proper design and not "a" proper design. "The" proper design for that specific project is something that needs to be determined so the deliverables can be pegged down. This takes a lot of communication between service provider and client. That's something that is learned from experience and not in a classroom.

I agree Jack. My project is taking longer than expected due to building "tuning tubes" specific for the room as well as the Helmhotz resonators

 

[Steve williams]

I was thinking about this some more...

From my perspective as someone who is trying to make a living in this area it seems there are a handful of top designers (the Yates, Hodas, type people) who if you can afford their rates then you can be pretty much guaranteed of a good outcome.

As consumers do you not think that if you employ a big name then you are pretty much guaranteed great results?

If you do think so then isn't it only a question of being able to afford them?

If you can't afford their rates well then it is a market economy - and the customer has the power here in choosing what they do or do not buy. Each acoustician's value proposition must be worth it to that individual customer. One customer may have no issue paying $300/hr, another may baulk at that and want someone half that price.

As to the subject of certification, well it could be a good start, but there is much more to being a good consultant and partner for a customer than simply a certification. Customer service, the ability to listen, the ability to be innovative, work to a budget and timeline, etc etc. I would also add that the acoustician is often the room designer as well, and determines other things like aesthetics, lighting, HVAC, electrical, etc. Should the acoustician have certifications or qualifications in architecture, interior design, HVAC, electrical engineering?

What would you include on the syllabus?

People shopping for an acoustician could always keep one or two questions up their sleeve. Think of a hard one like 'what role does a speaker's off axis performance have in the acoustic designs you develop?'. Plus that and don't be afraid to ask for testimonials and / or references.

Has anyone had a bad experience with an acoustician where the room turned out terrible? I'm sure with the knowledge of the community here a 'check list' for acousticians could be put together by those people who have worked with them. A thread could be put together, left to run it's course and then the best bits edited and made into a sticky.

Hi Nyal

I suspected the topic could touch a nerve and if so please accept my apologies but be aware that your name in my due diligence always rose to the top of the ranks. Had I still been in the SF Bay Area for me it would have been a no brainer.

I asked the question only because in my search it never occurred to me that the term "acoustician" could be used in such a broad sense

 

[audioblazer]

Interesting thread . Looking forward to the completion of the project & if X-2 can go into this room without problem , it would mean I can purchase this speaker at the appropriate time. A friend bought an XLF. Awesome & tonally so real.
My take on room acoustician - they must have good ears. All the measurements won't help ( even though necessary) if he has lousy ears

 

[Nyal Mellor]

Hi Nyal

I suspected the topic could touch a nerve and if so please accept my apologies but be aware that your name in my due diligence always rose to the top of the ranks. Had I still been in the SF Bay Area for me it would have been a no brainer.

I asked the question only because in my search it never occurred to me that the term "acoustician" could be used in such a broad sense

Thanks for the kind words But really no need, it is a valid and good question, I was just providing some hopefully useful, maybe insightful?, input based on the thoughts that were going around inside my head

 

[hvbias]

Looking forward to the progress report Steve. Please do post pics as it moves along.

 

[Steve williams]

well I ran into a 2 week delay snag today as I found out that the custom made drapes won't be ready until March 1st as the product designed to go behind the drape and in front of the lining has had a production delay. This product will hopefully be the last piece of my room puzzle as I attempt to tame it to accommodate my speakers

 

[Bruce B]

That's one thing that irked me during my build. Everyday the contractor said something was either custom or proprietary... $$$$

 

[microstrip]

That's one thing that irked me during my build. Everyday the contractor said something was either custom or proprietary... $$$$

My feeling that small room acoustics is just a room tweak is becoming stronger ... Some tweaks are serious, others not. We have to do a lot of work or spend a lot to pick the good ones

We are supposed to accept the good thinks of it, but not to understand it fully, and mostly avoid any serious scientific explanation.

 

[Steve williams]

That's one thing that irked me during my build. Everyday the contractor said something was either custom or proprietary... $$$$

Believe it or not the custom drapes and acoustic lining was the most expensive part of the room

 

[Bruce B]

Believe it or not the custom drapes and acoustic lining was the most expensive part of the room

I believe it. I had custom "acoustical drapes" done to cover my 2 doors....... $6k

 

[microstrip]

Believe it or not the custom drapes and acoustic lining was the most expensive part of the room

Steve,

Are you allowed to expose and debate in detail the treatments that were carried in your room? Almost all people I have asked about their specific custom room treatments could not answer as they were not allowed to share what is considered proprietary information.

 

[ack]

An interesting parallel discussion would be 'what credentials should a speaker designer have' or even 'what credentials should an amplifier designer have'?

Very good point. I've been telling some folks here in PMs that I only buy from designers that speak my language.

 

[microstrip]

Very good point. I've been telling some folks here in PMs that I only buy from designers that speak my language.

Ack,

I feel guilty. I do not speak Italian, although I can understand a little if people speak slowly. But since long consider it the more beautiful spoken language in the world.
Take this example. The spoken words sound like music: (First canto of Dante Alighieri well known La divina commedia)

http://www.liberliber.it/mediateca/audiolibri/a/alighieri/la_divina_commedia/mp3/alighieri_commedia_v_002_inf_01.mp3