What do you think of this video

What do you think of this video. And this is not directed to those who think every mobile phone video is trash, thanks. Please listen to the end for the brass and the woodwinds

 

I think using videos does have some complimentary usefulness when comparing equipments or doing A/B. As these clips allow us to sit back and listen to them multiple times. It will be easier to track the difference. Even the most experienced listener will have a tough time to A/B components when listening to big orchestra works as there will be too many details/criteria to assess.

Moreover, these videos allow you to grasp more information about your system setup espeacially when comparing to other systems with difference synergy or just playing at difference level. The key is to do the comparison in an controlled manner: what recording equipment(iphone is different from samsung), playing back equipment must be good headphone, the file transfer mechanism( FB/youtube/many other messenger app compressed these video quite badly).


Of course these videos might not be making sense to someone like Mike’s with mega system. However for people with mid level system, it does represent a good way to explore your option. During such quarantine time like now, these clips might even make more sense as long as you keep an open and more receiptive attitude towards it.

Back to the S250 vs M400 clips, i felt like i own Ked an input here. So let me first describe the setup before the recording:

1)S250 clips streamed from Qobuz

YG Hailey 2.1 speaker
Dan Agostino S250 amp fully burned in with CS 2 1.0 footer fully burned in.
MSB ref dac with dual power base with CS2 0.8 footer fully burn in. MSB Dac used as preamp.
Aurender W20 server.
Cablings: full Ansuz DTC cables
Network infrastructure: full FMC, linear PSU, ansuz switch

2)M400 clips streamed from Qobuz

YG Hailey 2.1 speaker
Dan Agostino M400 amp not burned in with no CS 2 1.0 footer
MSB ref dac with dual power base with CS2 0.8 footer fully burn in. MSB DAC used as pre amp.
Aurender W20 server.
Cablings: full Ansuz DTC cables but this time these is a new ansuz DTC cables added to Aurender W20 server
Network infrastructure: full FMC, linear PSU, ansuz switch.

So the underlying differences are:

S250 fully burned in with CS2 fully burned in vs M400 mono not burned in without footer
A brand new Ansuz DTC power cord into the server

One can easily see the difference shown through these clips:

S250 clip with smoother and have better tonal, decay and timing due to the amp and footer and power cable all fully burn in.
M400 clip with better details, control and dynamics but edgy and metallic as equipment not burned in, new power cord and no CS2 footer. Moreover M400 really plays quicker when needed as Ked mentioned the starts stops.

Since then the system has improved tremendously. I have attached more clips for your comment:

 

Haha... it seems this thread is becoming a clip repository! (Which is fine by me... but I'm not the OP.)

I think Ked's original clip gives a fairly good idea of how my system sounds. But using a phone is obviously a compromise. I've recorded the same track with a microphone at the listening position, and level-matched to Ked's video. If anyone's interested, here are the two audio files:

Ked's video:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pngHj6cJJq9Edlzj6lJ31p4fbvZQ6r2j/view?usp=sharing

My recording:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_s1M6cwiwrg3RVqnBcBv_zlDtOeLscHq/view?usp=sharing

Listening live in the room still sounds substantially better than my recording (more low end), but hopefully, my recording gives a better idea of how the system sounds compared to Ked's video.

Mani.

 

Haha... it seems this thread is becoming a clip repository! (Which is fine by me... but I'm not the OP.)

I think Ked's original clip gives a fairly good idea of how my system sounds. But using a phone is obviously a compromise. I've recorded the same track with a microphone at the listening position, and level-matched to Ked's video. If anyone's interested, here are the two audio files:

Ked's video:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pngHj6cJJq9Edlzj6lJ31p4fbvZQ6r2j/view?usp=sharing

My recording:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_s1M6cwiwrg3RVqnBcBv_zlDtOeLscHq/view?usp=sharing

Listening live in the room still sounds substantially better than my recording (more low end), but hopefully, my recording gives a better idea of how the system sounds compared to Ked's video.

Mani.

I think this is much better than the longest threads where everybody were just discussing basis what they dont hear at all.

Your Rode microphones are not that much better than Ked’s phone mic.

Somehow i felt the youtube compression make your system sounds better than these wave files.

 

Your Rode microphones are not that much better than Ked’s phone mic.

It's the Rode NT4 stereo mic. In many ways it's much better than Ked's mic: much lower noise floor (something that I think is critical for good sound); much more extended top end; finer detail. What it isn't capturing correctly though is the bottom end - taut and tuneful, but not as extended as it is in reality. This has an impact on tonality.

The main reason for posting the two files was to address the criticism that some people had when viewing/listening to Ked's video:

Sense of air/energy and dynamics, decent attack from basses, warm, a bit rolled off, somewhat blurred, especially violins.

In this case the bass; low, mid and upper bass is weak and the horns are nasal, you hear it as soon as the woodwinds come in.

Yes, I hear that nasal tone as well. Could it be the recording rather than the system?

There is no "blurring" or "nasality" on the Rode recording.

It's a shame that I can't seem to capture the sound more accurately. It's certainly the best sound I've achieved in 40 years of this obsession wonderful hobby. I don't tinker. I don't want for anything. I just listen to music .

Mani.

 

I think the recording with your NT-4 is very good.

 

I tried an old Korg portable recorder with the Rode NT4 mic, and I think this is about as close as I can get to recreating what I hear in my room:

Scheherazade:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PNOOtZ3DaVzxbzlA0VsmXO9gifidsjaw/view?usp=sharing

Blues in the Bassment:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14383qKD4CHj_9P39whgLr1cFHonQHswd/view?usp=sharing

Too Damn Hot:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QLHcjDR0L5BTFQGMoLmqUBzdxGxKgkzw/view?usp=sharing

Edit: Pic of what you're listening to :



Mani.

 

That Lalo schifrin is superb, as is the third track which is appropriate for this week. Too hot to even type.

This just depicts what Mani's system is, you can play any music, including electronic or whatever and enjoy it thoroughly

 

Just to add to that... This is all being streamed through Tidal.

Mani.

 

What beautiful speakers... wow. I had never heard of them...

 

What beautiful speakers....

Yeah, I think so too. Fortunately, they sound as good as they look... to me, at least. Though it's taken me some work to get them singing as they are now (which I hope the tracks I linked above give a sense of).

Mani.

 

It's the Rode NT4 stereo mic. In many ways it's much better than Ked's mic: much lower noise floor (something that I think is critical for good sound); much more extended top end; finer detail. What it isn't capturing correctly though is the bottom end - taut and tuneful, but not as extended as it is in reality. This has an impact on tonality.

The main reason for posting the two files was to address the criticism that some people had when viewing/listening to Ked's video:







There is no "blurring" or "nasality" on the Rode recording.

It's a shame that I can't seem to capture the sound more accurately. It's certainly the best sound I've achieved in 40 years of this obsession wonderful hobby. I don't tinker. I don't want for anything. I just listen to music .

Mani.

That is the outcome with people who fall for the animas... they arrive and then never leave.

I lived with a pair for a few months as a mate temporarily stored them at my place. If my pay grade was in that ballpark I’d live with a pair also. You stop thinking and the comparison trail dissipates and all you are left with is musical connection.

They aren’t perfect... but for some they are however perfectly satisfying. They can just be subliminal and in that capacity then quite sublime. Not right for all but so completely right for some.

 

That is the outcome with people who fall for the animas... they arrive and then never leave.

I'm coming up to 4 years with my pair. In that time, listening to quite a lot of stuff (including a couple of visits to Munich), I've never even flirted with the idea of replacing them.

But it's been a journey getting them to where they are today, and not one that I suspect many people on this forum would being willing to follow.

They aren’t perfect...

Stock, I think they have two big issues:

1. There's a difference of around 8-9dB in sensitivity between the mid/high horns and the bass horn. They have attenuators on the rear for attenuating the mid and high horns to match the bass horn. This allows them to be used without any adjustment upstream, but is a massive compromise IMO.

2. The bass horn isn't anywhere near big enough to provide any reinforcement in the bottom two octaves. So it's really only a mid-bass horn. Positioning the speakers in the corners does nothing to reinforce the sound below 80 Hz or so, but does provide extra reinforcement around 120 Hz (in my room).

The way I've addressed these issues is by biamping (using a beefy amp for the bass), and using DSP to match levels and provide a bit of DRC. As I said, not a path that I think many people here would be willing to follow. BUT... it's worked wonders.

Of course, a system is not just the speakers. I can destroy the sound by literally changing any other component in the chain...

You stop thinking and the comparison trail dissipates and all you are left with is musical connection.

... but for some they are however perfectly satisfying. They can just be subliminal and in that capacity then quite sublime.

Agree 100%.

Mani.

 

I'm coming up to 4 years with my pair. In that time, listening to quite a lot of stuff (including a couple of visits to Munich), I've never even flirted with the idea of replacing them.

But it's been a journey getting them to where they are today, and not one that I suspect many people on this forum would being willing to follow.



Stock, I think they have two big issues:

1. There's a difference of around 8-9dB in sensitivity between the mid/high horns and the bass horn. They have attenuators on the rear for attenuating the mid and high horns to match the bass horn. This allows them to be used without any adjustment upstream, but is a massive compromise IMO.

2. The bass horn isn't anywhere near big enough to provide any reinforcement in the bottom two octaves. So it's really only a mid-bass horn. Positioning the speakers in the corners does nothing to reinforce the sound below 80 Hz or so, but does provide extra reinforcement around 120 Hz (in my room).

The way I've addressed these issues is by biamping (using a beefy amp for the bass), and using DSP to match levels and provide a bit of DRC. As I said, not a path that I think many people here would be willing to follow. BUT... it's worked wonders.

Of course, a system is not just the speakers. I can destroy the sound by literally changing any other component in the chain...



Agree 100%.

Mani.

It is rare that we will see a person on this forum with an excellent system willing to analyse the drawbacks of his speakers like you just did

 

It is rare that we will see a person on this forum with an excellent system willing to analyse the drawbacks of his speakers like you just did

Thanks Ked.

I've paid full retail for all the components in my system, am not in the industry and am beholden to no-one.

Mani.

 

That does sound like quite the journey. I am happy it has paid off for you.

 

Thanks Ked.

I've paid full retail for all the components in my system, am not in the industry and am beholden to no-one.

Mani.

Ron also pays full retail as a point of pride.

 

That does sound like quite the journey. I am happy it has paid off for you.

Thank you. I actually only made the changes I described above in the last few months. (Not being able to travel for work probably had something to do with this .)

I used the Animas stock for well over 3 years before then, and indeed, that's how they were on Marc's visit and Ked's first visit - both of whom seemed to enjoy them.

Left stock, they can sound very satisfying. Paired with the First Watt F5, they're almost holographic. There is zero noise coming through - you can put your head in the horn and you will hear nothing at all... at full gain! This lack of noise tends to push the soundstage right back, with individual vocals and instruments sitting further forward in a realistic and very pleasant three-dimensional manner. The top end, I can't fault, and the wooden mid-horn just sounds beautiful compared to the plastic horns I've had in the past. However...

There's very little energy in the lower two octaves. Tune Audio do have a couple of subs in their range, but this wasn't the way I wanted to go, as I didn't want any clutter in the room. (The audio PC and DAC already sit in the basement - if I could get the amps out of the room too, I would.)

My feeling was that if speakers like the Kii 3 and D&D could do bass, then so could the Animas... with a bit of help from DSP and a powerful LF amp. I've taken measurements, and even pushing the 15" bass drivers quite hard, there's very little harmonic distortion right the way down to the lowest octave. So now, they're truly high-sensitivity and full range!

Mani.

 

The main reason for posting the two files was to address the criticism that some people had when viewing/listening to Ked's video:


There is no "blurring" or "nasality" on the Rode recording.

It's a shame that I can't seem to capture the sound more accurately..

Your Rode recording is so much better than Ked's recording, it isn't even close. However, I am not convinced also from the Rode recording that there is no nasality on brass -- to my ears there is. Perhaps also the Rode recording is still limited, and does not do justice to your system.

 

That's just hilarious . On the contrary, the diversity of my musical tastes is far greater than that of most -- and includes a lot of avantgarde, or even just modestly modern composers like Bartok, that you abhor, my friend. The diversity of my musical knowledge is also greater than that of most. Because I actually know the music I am listening to. And I know it because I listen to it multiple times -- over and over, in your words. Unless you're a genius -- perhaps you are one, Ked? -- you can't actually know a piece from listening to it once, especially if it has some complexity. You think I could write on classical music, in some of my posts that you "liked" (e.g., on Bruckner or Mahler), the way I do if I had just superficial knowledge?

You also should be more open to exploring new stuff musically than you are, Ked. Perhaps some more Bartok, to start with, and going on from there? Expand your horizons, man!

Al M, I totally get where you're coming from. To get the most out of music, particularly challenging music, you need to listen multiple times.

I'm caught between wanting to get to know music more in depth and the constantly new horizons streaming opens up. My middle ground for this dilemma is sometimes to explore one artist for a period of time and then explore someone else. A couple of years ago, I listened to Stravinky's entire Tidal collection. This took about 3 weeks, it was obsessive, but I believe I really got to understand his music and also satisfy the urge to explore. And, yes I still like Stravinsky....

I recently did the same with Carla Bley for a week and am on a Salo Salaman binge for the last few days.

 

Your Rode recording is so much better than Ked's recording, it isn't even close. However, I am not convinced also from the Rode recording that there is no nasality on brass -- to my ears there is. Perhaps also the Rode recording is still limited, and does not do justice to your system.

Did you take a listen to these?

Scheherazade:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PNOOtZ3DaVzxbzlA0VsmXO9gifidsjaw/view?usp=sharing

Blues in the Bassment:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14383qKD4CHj_9P39whgLr1cFHonQHswd/view?usp=sharing

Too Damn Hot:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QLHcjDR0L5BTFQGMoLmqUBzdxGxKgkzw/view?usp=sharing

One of the useful things about recording your system in this way is that you can compare the recording with the original file (using headphones preferably) to determine exactly what your system is adding/taking away. There are a lot of differences between my recordings and the original files, but I'm not hearing any added nasality on the brass. Maybe we're just more senstiive to different things?

Mani.