What do you use for vibration isolation?
- Thread starter Reid.Whitney
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I'm not disputing that air transmits vibration, if it didn't we all put a ton of cash into a completely worthless hobby...
Yup. But according to you and even after providing an excellent example of what horrific affects air-borne vibrations will to a car, air-borne vibrations apparently have no affect on your sensitive instruments. Right, Dave?
We could stop here. At least you admit there do exist some vibrations within your sensitive instruments and when you attempt to isolate, you’ve severed any hope of their ability to exit.
Uh-huh. So if a speaker is anchored to the floor all hell breaks loose in the house and even in the speaker because the floor acts like a mirror transmitting this unwanted energy back into the speaker from whence they came? But air-borne vibrations via the car analogy will do no such thing? You have an incredible imagination, Dave.
BTW, my 15-inch subwoofer is anchored via custom points it to the floor within 2ft of my components and rack. Do you suggest I move it further away? How about I suspend my subwoofer from the ceiling via bungee chords 2ft from my components and turn it so the driver is facing the components, like some of you do with your woofers?
Horribly flawed? You’re incredible. John Curl said he flicks his finger at a component chassis part and calls that his “ding” test. I responded by calling it his “ding-a-ling” test and suggested he stick within his area of expertise. I’m not sure yet what my suggestion to you is. But I’ll get back to you.
Oh, but draining does work and work superbly. There are inferior executions and superior executions. My guess is, the only executions you’ve tried most likely were not of a superior nature.
BTW, you probably were unaware, but attempting to efficiently transfer resonant energy, there most always is an incubation period while the disparate objects settle-in? I can give you some fairly exacting times but I doubt it will help.
For example. If somebody like yourself is just dabbling with a product adhering to the energy transfer method, the improvements won’t even start to kick for about 5 days. That’s if you don’t touch anything. If you move things around, the incubation period must start over from the beginning.
In your case, if there were any improvements with your feeble attempts, they’d probably end on the same day they started so you’ll get maybe 1 or 2 little gains, no big deal right? In my case, the improvements will usually start on the 5th day and will continue to improve almost daily for weeks, months, and even years. The longest it’s ever taken for one of my products to settle is 18 months. That was without touching a bloomin’ thing in the system for that entire period of time.
So even though I’m the one full of BS and misguided, you being unaware of the settling in time period, you probably removed the product before it even had a chance to demonstrate anything worthwhile. If that’s not the case, then you were probably moving things around so the allotted initial settling in process could never occur. Hence, if the coupling products were worth anything to begin with, your feeble experiments with such were probably for naught.
Even if per chance you had such an awareness, then there’s a whole ‘nuther small can of worms that need to be considered. All of which has to do with creating not just any ol’ mechanical conduit but a vastly superior mechanical conduit that allows mechanical energy to FREELY travel between normally disparate objects. Think extreme mechanical conduit including certain materials, designs, executions, stress, mass-loading, etc. and much patience. And without these considerations any such experiment is feeble, a token, or half-assed effort at best.
Great benefit? Dave, you’re getting hyperbolic on me here.
Sure, you can play the damping game and when the desire is for energy to travel, there is a time and place for it to maximize potential gains. However, you do realize don’t you that damping does not squash energy or convert it to heat as you want to believe?
Damping is the reduction of amplitude of mechanical motion of an object. IOW, damping is really the attempt to subdue an easily excitable object like a chassis top plate or a vacuum tube to keep the vibrations from dissipating or releasing its energy there. If by damping, the vibrations are unable to release their energy there, they travel to the next easily excitable object and release its energy there.
Damping invokes energy travel. That is to say, don’t release your energy here but instead keep moving and try to release it over there. But when there is no exit point, it’s going to release the energy somewhere within. Thanks to your trapping it. So yes, in an “isolation” attempt, there is the likelihood of damping so many objects that perhaps the objects chosen to release their vibrational energy might induce less sonic harm than some of the more sensitive and significant internals.
A tuning fork is an excellent example of damping. Your grasping the stem with your hand and strike one of the tines to invoke the tuning fork to vibrate. The tines are oscillating like mad but since your hand makes for an excellent damper, there is little oscillation in the stem, thus, with nowhere else to go the energy travels back and forth between the tines and releasing its energy at both tines for an extended period of time. Since you only struck one of the tines to invoke vibrations but both tines are vibrating equally should substantiate the fact that when vibrations attach themselves to a physical object their desire is to travel. If it weren’t for your hand damping the stem that too would be oscillating much like the tines. But then according to you your hand should be exceedingly warm since it’s been damping the vibrations at the stem converting the vibrations there to heat, right?
Talk about misguided and BS? I engaged in a bit of meaningful dialogue with Herbie (Steve) about 8 months ago in another forum regarding his highly questionable claims and assertions. To be kind I’ll just say Steve was contradicting himself routinely and after 4 or 5 exchanges he stopped responding my questions because it wasn’t helping his cause in the least. I even offered him the last word, but as I recall didn’t take it. Then again, it’s quite common for many isolation product mfg’ers to apply inappropriate names and terms to their products whose designs contradict their claims and what they think their products do. Just as they routinely do here on WBF.
Again the floor-borne thing. You mean place the car with the subwoofer on points or spikes, don’t you Dave?
Mike, Keith has bought an amazing isolating device for his tt, the Spiers And Robertson air table which I believe is a giant killer at it's price point (I'm in the market for it myself), and the designer who has forgotten more about acoustical and mechanical engineering than we know, stated to me that ALL mechanical devices incl ALL audio gear would benefit from his product, ie ALL the products that Keith denies can possibly be helped.
Maybe Keith should put his reservations to Graham, and not us. We understand all too well that effective isolation can benefit all our gear.
Re his damning your Dartzeels by inference, personally I'd have used an Emoticon not allowed on a polite forum board like this one - I believe Peter Breuninger specialises in that one LOL!
Maybe Keith should put his reservations to Graham, and not us. We understand all too well that effective isolation can benefit all our gear.
Re his damning your Dartzeels by inference, personally I'd have used an Emoticon not allowed on a polite forum board like this one - I believe Peter Breuninger specialises in that one LOL!
Quite, I do in fact find it amusing that such a simple product can produce astonishing levels of Timbre an Harmonics in my room.
I could of course suck the life out of my room with one of your IAP processors messing with the signal instead!
Harlequin and me just LOVE the bling of those Shun Mook Diamond Resonators!
My GF says I'm due to meet a sticky end, and she'll extricate those rocks for herself. True love.
My GF says I'm due to meet a sticky end, and she'll extricate those rocks for herself. True love.
With respect, but for an audio dealer I find your views bordering on the inflexible, dismissive of the competition, and generally with a significant narrow-minded point of view.
You had a M'Pingo tree in your garden! Considering the veritable hardness of that species You must have used an exceedingly Sharp implement, which would tend to rule out your Wit and Perspicacity!
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And just like Steve, I won't be responding to it. I actually have an engineering degree and I could set you straight on a lot of stuff you believe that is absolutely wrong, but I'm sure I'd be wasting my time.
We sure have a testy number of posts in the last day or so. Me thinks it might be time to close this baby down and start another one....which will no doubt end up with the same result. LOL!
They improve the timbre of the equipment by improving the timbre, and the mechanism is that you buy them, put them under the gear, hear the improvement. Easy really.
This is the kind of question that I have been asking about stehno's device and some of the other vibration management solutions. What are the most important types of vibrations and distortions? How do we know, and how do we measure reductions in distortions using these different approaches. At times I think asking for more verifyable evidence about a product may be qualification to move the topic to the science forum, but these questions may not be answered there either, so what is the point?
This thread has been going around and around with little progress. We all hear what we hear, we stick with the solutions that work for us, or we try new ones, and that is what we are left with.
Even a well known and very popular product like Stillpoints works in some systems and not in others. Some people have had positive results and others, not so. The explanations of why they work, or don't, or even precisely what they are supposed to do, how they are supposed to be oriented and placed, and under what type components, these questions are answered by user opinions and comments like, "try them this way, then them that way, and use them the way they work best for you."
This is fine, and perhaps even appropriate in this type of a forum. But does anyone think that a more evidence or science based discussion could be had about Stillpoints or Herzan or Vibraplane or stehno's device in the science forum? It might just as easily devolve into silliness and unanswered questions over there.
And yet they DO So! Were this not to be the case, In my system, I would not be using them.
I think it's been mentioned often that Bill, I, and others have blind tested, but of course, why let facts get in the way of your distortion
Tiresome repetition of an entrenched dogma is Not!
I am perfectly aware of, and comfortable with, my own perception in this regard, I have demo'd many products that you would no doubt derise as "Foo" some of which I have purchased and implemented, many more that I have not.
Curiously, one technology, that you whole heartedly pedal, that made it onto the reject pile was DSP room correction! On three separate occasions, whilst undoubtedly effective in some elements of its raison d’être (base nodes) the yang to that ying in playing around with the integrity of the audio signal proved to be a cure far worse than the malady.
Really! I do not recall reading " May also suck the life and verve out of your audio expearience but hey!!! Your base node should be sorted" in the product description.
And you are intelligent to this irrefutable certainty How? Your personal experience, together with your set of measurements, oft demanded of others, might be mildly interesting! Or might this be yet another Gaseous exchange with the atmosphere via your opinionated fundament!
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