What do you use for vibration isolation?

[Bruce McDougall]

These effectively isolate components in a magnetically levitated constrained layer. 3 can support components between 6 and 60# and are adjustable in approximately 1.5# increments. They promote "naturalness" over enhancement, and will not rob systems of bass or mid-bass, or thin out the sound.



Anvil Turntables
anvilturntables@gmail.com

 

[stehno]

These effectively isolate components in a magnetically levitated constrained layer. 3 can support components between 6 and 60# and are adjustable in approximately 1.5# increments. They promote "naturalness" over enhancement, and will not rob systems of bass or mid-bass, or thin out the sound.

Anvil Turntables
anvilturntables@gmail.com

I'm curious.

1. How do these contraptions effectively isolate components from vibrations?

2. Which vibrations are you speaking of?

3. How are you able to tell these are effective or say more effective than other isolation methods?

4. What, if any, is the difference between sustaining / levitating a component AND isolating a component?

 

[Argonaut]

 

[Bruce McDougall]

I'm curious.

1. How do these contraptions effectively isolate components from vibrations?

2. Which vibrations are you speaking of?

3. How are you able to tell these are effective or say more effective than other isolation methods?

4. What, if any, is the difference between sustaining / levitating a component AND isolating a component?

Technically they are not "contraptions", which has something of a negative connotation. The footers have the ability to both "float" a component, offering isolation from structure born vibration, and depending on setting uses constrained layer damping which dissipates mechanical vibration. Are they effective? These were originally developed in response to a customers request. He had a feedback problem with a particular arm/cart combination that was being generated by his full range speakers/lively room. We had a rather dramatic improvement in sound and the complete elimination of this issue. They have also been useful under many other components including cd players, tube amplifiers and speakers. The ability to adjust each footer to the component greatly enhances its potential to be effective in a broad range of systems. My customers are thrilled with these and they are now a standard component on my turntables.

 

[stehno]

Technically they are not "contraptions", which has something of a negative connotation. The footers have the ability to both "float" a component, offering isolation from structure born vibration, and depending on setting uses constrained layer damping which dissipates mechanical vibration. Are they effective? These were originally developed in response to a customers request. He had a feedback problem with a particular arm/cart combination that was being generated by his full range speakers/lively room. We had a rather dramatic improvement in sound and the complete elimination of this issue. They have also been useful under many other components including cd players, tube amplifiers and speakers. The ability to adjust each footer to the component greatly enhances its potential to be effective in a broad range of systems. My customers are thrilled with these and they are now a standard component on my turntables.

Sorry, I pretty much interchange words like contraption, apparatus, etc routinely and meant no negativity there.

Your testimony reminds me of an incident several years ago where I visited a friend who had recently spent $5k on a custom revamp of an antiquated but much desired turntable. His speaker drivers (one driver per channel) were going bizzerk from the feedback he was getting from his turntable which was a inner-chassis connected by free-floating springs to the outer chassis. It literally sounded like crap.

Upon evaluating the situation, I took a serious of paper towels and rolled them up and stuffed them tautly between the free-floating inner chassis and outer chassis. Eventually inserted enough rolled up paper towels around the perimeter to completely eliminate the visible effects of the feedback at the speaker drivers and greatly improved the sound. And the owner was pleased as punches to witness this highly visible and highly audible transformation.

I'm curious how, aside from the aesthetics, your footers' performance for your customers' turntables might differ from rolled up paper towels exercise I performed for my friend's turntable?

 

[Bruce McDougall]

Few of my customers would cotton to the look of Charmin under my 3-6K turntable, and at 55-100#, I am not sure your tweak would have much of a chance ( maybe "Brawny Lad" )? By your criteria no footer of virtually any design would be any better than bits and pieces found around the house.

 

[DaveC]

I'm curious how, aside from the aesthetics, your footers' performance for your customers' turntables might differ from rolled up paper towels exercise I performed for my friend's turntable?

Wow. Seriously? You are the king of passive aggressive.

 

[rockitman]

Few of my customers would cotton to the look of Charmin under my 3-6K turntable, and at 55-100#, I am not sure your tweak would have much of a chance ( maybe "Brawny Lad" )? By your criteria no footer of virtually any design would be any better than bits and pieces found around the house.

I think stehno should start a thread on his game changing vibration control methods using Bounty Paper towels and the like.

 

[rockitman]

Wow. Seriously? You are the king of passive aggressive.

Yes...I take his posts as rude, off base and uniformed when it comes to his opinions on vibration control.

 

[stehno]

Few of my customers would cotton to the look of Charmin under my 3-6K turntable, and at 55-100#, I am not sure your tweak would have much of a chance ( maybe "Brawny Lad" )? By your criteria no footer of virtually any design would be any better than bits and pieces found around the house.

En contraire, you just might be amazed what a customer is willing to endure with the quirks of an audible deficiency.

I've not necessarily established any criteria here, but you do imply a good point regarding the quirkiness of turntables which often times have layer upon layer, ad nausea of various methods and executions of vibration "isolation" and "damping". So much so TT's are like a box of vibrational chocolates and for that reason I steer clear of TT's altogether. For this very reason, IMO, TT's are a lost cause right outta' the starting gate.

 

[stehno]

Wow. Seriously? You are the king of passive aggressive.

Really? How so, DaveC?

On worthless paper, there appears to be two similar situations where in both cases excitations at the TT was causing feedback / warble at the speakers. Bruce addressed it one way and I addressed it a completely different way (albeit cheap and temporary) and yet both executions appeared to offer significant performance gains (again on paper). Might that not imply that the cause (of the feedback) was similar? And hence, the remedies, though executed differently, also provided similar results?

Are you implying my question to Bruce was invalid?

 

[Bruce McDougall]

stehno, It gives me great confidence in your apparently peerless products, that you do not even own a turntable which is, arguably the most sensitive component to structure born vibration. I am obviously a sort of anachronistic snake oil salesman plying my "contraptions" to enthusiasts who can neither hear well, nor judge good value or technical ideas. I am glad to hear ( from an industry expert ) that all of us turntable folk have been wrong all along, so maybe it's time we all grow up, stop fooling ourselves and fetch a good cd player!

 

[PeterA]

I've not necessarily established any criteria here, but you do imply a good point regarding the quirkiness of turntables which often times have layer upon layer, ad nausea of various methods and executions of vibration "isolation" and "damping". So much so TT's are like a box of vibrational chocolates and for that reason I steer clear of TT's altogether. For this very reason, IMO, TT's are a lost cause right outta' the starting gate.

To dismiss, outright, an entire product category which many music lovers consider essential to their enjoyment seems a bit extreme. Have you never heard convincing vinyl? That seems incredible to me. Or are you simply trying to be provocative?

As an industry expert at vibration control, you are missing a huge market opportunity for your products. Or have you already compared your devices to those made my Vibraplane or Herzan and others?

 

[stehno]

To dismiss, outright, an entire product category which many music lovers consider essential to their enjoyment seems a bit extreme. Have you never heard convincing vinyl? That seems incredible to me. Or are you simply trying to be provocative?

As an industry expert at vibration control, you are missing a huge market opportunity for your products. Or have you already compared your devices to those made my Vibraplane or Herzan and others?

As Bruce said above, the TT is arguably the most sensitive component to vibrations. No argument there whatsoever. By and large, TT mfg'ers have gone so far down the "isolation" path which is completely contrary to my own vibration controlling methods. IOW, I never use the phrase "vibration isolation" in a positive sense.

Hence, IMO, a TT's potential performance compromises are simply overwhelming and not worth my while. To me and apparently to me alone, for the most part TT designs (as cool looking as some may be) are equivalent to a boat littered with holes. You can plug up the holes with one or numerous methods and the boat may still take you to the other side, but at what price in the way of performance and enjoyment?

Have I never heard convincing vinyl? Well, I've visited plenty of homes, dealer showrooms, and attended and exhibited at a number of audio shows and I easily can say I've heard reasonable vinyl on a number of occasions. But reasonable and convincing have two completely different meanings to me.

 

[Bruce McDougall]

stehno, I suggest you Google "narcissistic personality disorder" and find a forum to hang out on. Or a ledge...










Bruce
Anvil Turntables
anvilturntables@gmail.com

 

[stehno]

stehno, It gives me great confidence in your apparently peerless products, that you do not even own a turntable which is, arguably the most sensitive component to structure born vibration. I am obviously a sort of anachronistic snake oil salesman plying my "contraptions" to enthusiasts who can neither hear well, nor judge good value or technical ideas. I am glad to hear ( from an industry expert ) that all of us turntable folk have been wrong all along, so maybe it's time we all grow up, stop fooling ourselves and fetch a good cd player!

Cute, Bruce.

BTW, some, including me, may argue that air-borne and internally-generated vibrations induce far more sonic harm than floor-borne and structural-borne vibrations.

Moreover, if your quest is to protect your TT from floor-borne vibrations, where do you suppose all the air-borne and internally-generated (motors, power supplies, etc) vibrations already captured at the TT go?

 

[Bruce McDougall]

You could make the same claim about tube amps, cd players even dacs. All components are challenged both by their design and the environment. There are many effective ways with dealing with all three of your concerns. Btw, well designed turntables inherent noise is manageable and not much of an issue in my opinion.

 

[stehno]

You could make the same claim about tube amps, cd players even dacs. All components are challenged both by their design and the environment. There are many effective ways with dealing with all three of your concerns. Btw, well designed turntables inherent noise is manageable and not much of an issue in my opinion.

Yup, we sure could as the principles (mechanical vibrations behaviors, sources, and the harm induced) are universal regardless of sensitive instrument (component) or even industry for that matter. But you mentioned TT's being arguably the most sensitive to vibrations and that's your expertise so I assumed that was the scope of this rather meaningful dialogue. Or was that meaningful monologue?

 

[Bruce McDougall]

Meaningful? I think most are dumber having read it

 

[stehno]

Meaningful? I think most are dumber having read it

BTW, Bruce, you neglected to answer my question which was:

"if your quest is to protect your TT from floor-borne vibrations, where do you suppose all the air-borne and internally-generated (motors, power supplies, etc) vibrations already captured at the TT go?"

This should be an easy question to answer for a really smart feller like yourself.